Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[Brian B]

They could have gotten much closer by the end of New X-Men. Things that were happening to Logan with Rose clearly hinted that. Honestly I hardly care about this especially now bc continuity is ja#$ sh$% for Marvel as you see.

I still think there’s a decent possibility that the 616 is Moira XI’s life and that Moira X’s life we are reading is another, alternative Marvel Universe.

[Grinning Soul]

Jean and Scott are in an open marriage. Logan is her clearly lover. Emma is heavily implied to be Scott's (including by other characters). And there's even the possibility that Logan and Scott are lovers too.

I don’t like the fact that Percy is the only writer who portrays this open marriage in more than veiled hints. Because he made Jean the only one who undeniably has a lover other than her husband.

But my biggest problem here is continuity. There's nothing wrong in polyamory but polyamory is not for everyone. And it's not a matter of morality.

Both Jean and Scott have struggled with insecurity and jealousy. That's not about what is right and what is wrong and how other people perceive it (meaning, it's not about morality). It's about how you feel and how you relate to your sexuality. And some people are monogamous just as much as they are heterosexual or bisexual or gay...

Dying shouldn't change that.

--

Another issue I see a lot in these forums is that people dislike Scott and Jean's relationship and they characterise it as "nostalgic" or whatever, without considering how those characters would feel if they were real people.

For them, their marriage is *not* nostalgic.

One of them suffered a major traumatic experience, that created problems in their relationship, that led to a psychic affair that was pretty much coerced, then one spouse died before they could even decide on what to do about their relationship.

But just before this traumatic experience (really *just* before), both of them were in Alaska. They didn't want to go back to the X-Men. They wanted to take a break and be together so they could start their family. This is canon. Their relationship was doing great, regardless of how you feel about it.

And that's the reality for the characters.

It's fine that you, as a fan, don't like it. But they do: they love each other.

I never liked the fact that Jean is so attracted to Logan. But she is. No matter how much I love her-- No, *because* I love her, I think I have to accept she has this crazy attraction to him. And maybe it's time you tried to accept that she genuinely loves Scott regardless of how you feel about it?

[Vishop]

Nostalgia or Headcanon is whats driving all of these characters(I mean the four of them) with respective relationships in these era. I don't think there is any profundity towards whats happening in their relationships.

[Grinning Soul]

Nostalgia or Headcanon is whats driving all of these characters(I mean the four of them) with respective relationships in these era. I don't think there is any profundity towards whats happening in their relationships.

I agree with you. The whole polyamory thing, for me, is just an allegory for Krakoa's morality (but it's a bad one). It's not about the characters and who they are.

This is what we were talking about, Vishop: Hickman has a story to tell and he doesn't let continuity/details stand on his way.


EDIT: That being said, the in-story relationship that makes sense, continuity-wise, is the marriage between Scott and Jean. They wanted to live as family before all the troubles happen. They both died. And now they're both alive again so they're trying to live as a family again.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

That actually would have made more sense, and I hated the Morrison run. It started great, ended with a whimper, and lost so much steam just by the time they got to the silent issue.

As other’s pointed out to me and I agree to a degree, Jean’s with Wolverine because of the movies. Don’t get me wrong — it was always a thing that Wolverine was hitting on Jean in the comics, from way back. I think it was very subtly implied Jean had some interest there, but it was so subtle some can ignore it. But it wasn’t until Hugh Jackman came along that there was a return on that love interest. It’s interesting how the movie interpretations of the characters have affected the comics.

BTW, it’s not clear to me that Scott isn’t still seeing Emma. The whole thing could still go the way you suggested.

Jean and Logan had their once-a-decade moments long before there was a movie. Anyway, inspired by a movie or not, there are good pair, especially since Wolverine's thing isn't based on flattening out a female character. I like to think that Wolverine likes Jean even more when she is fiery, conversely to her more nostalgic situation.

As for Emma/Scott, that would be great, but I think more and more the reality is laid bare that this era is pretty much super-nostalgic beyond a surface-level sheen. It's just Jean and Scott (with Percy making his fanboy thing happen in his little corner, not that I mind it).


It's funny, I was expecting Hickman to do an Emma and Jean sister-wives thing for Cyclops. We probably avoided that because he has an actual narrative for Emma.

[Devaishwarya]

And I thought X-fans LIVED for the soap opera relationship drama.

The polyamory is just a new "modern" twist on the whole relationship drama between these four characters. It's less an allegory and more of a descriptor (one of many) for just how different the overall mentality and outlook is in this Krakoa Era.

Jean loves Scott. Scott loves Emma. Wolverine loves Jean. They love each other. It's ALL actual canon, whether some like it or not.

[Grinning Soul]

If you ignore continuity - especially recent continuity - sure.

Scott could have got back together with Emma after AvX. Adult Jean wasn't even alive back then, there was nothing stopping him, except the fact that he didn't want it anymore. And he made it clear in no uncertain terms.

Then both Scott and Jean in her resurrection story tell they love and miss each other. The hug and kiss and they seem very much in love. Then on his resurrection story, he's eager to go meet Jean and never mentions Emma once.

When they finally reunite at the end of Uncanny, Jean walks past Logan to go kiss Scott passionately. She doesn't even acknowledge Logan's presence. Scott kisses her back just as passionately as if he wasn't aware that Emma is around either.

What made them go from that to being in an open marriage is pure speculation, because it was never actually shown. And trust me: I'd love to know. But they said they're leaving things vague on purpose. What can we do?

[Wiccan]

If you ignore continuity - especially recent continuity - sure.

Scott could have got back together with Emma after AvX. Adult Jean wasn't even alive back then, there was nothing stopping him, except the fact that he didn't want it anymore. And he made it clear in no uncertain terms.

Then both Scott and Jean in her resurrection story tell they love and miss each other. The hug and kiss and they seem very much in love. Then on his resurrection story, he's eager to go meet Jean and never mentions Emma once.

When they finally reunite at the end of Uncanny, Jean walks past Logan to go kiss Scott passionately. She doesn't even acknowledge Logan's presence. Scott kisses her back just as passionately as if he wasn't aware that Emma is around either.

What made them go from that to being in an open marriage is pure speculation, because it was never actually shown. And trust me: I'd love to know. But they said they're leaving things vague on purpose. What can we do?

Not knowing how they got there doesn't make it not a thing. Saying the polyamory is only speculation and headcanon when Jean/Scott and Jean/Logan have both been shown explicitly it's just straight up incorrect.

[Grinning Soul]

Not knowing how they got there doesn't make it not a thing. Saying the polyamory is only speculation and headcanon when Jean/Scott and Jean/Logan have both been shown explicitly it's just straight up incorrect.

But I didn't say that. Please, check my comment on #3602.

I just questioned how the characters feel. That hasn't been shown to us.

[Havok83]

And I thought X-fans LIVED for the soap opera relationship drama.

The polyamory is just a new "modern" twist on the whole relationship drama between these four characters. It's less an allegory and more of a descriptor (one of many) for just how different the overall mentality and outlook is in this Krakoa Era.

Jean loves Scott. Scott loves Emma. Wolverine loves Jean. They love each other. It's ALL actual canon, whether some like it or not.

The Scott, Jean, Logan thing is canon. Not so much Emma. She doesnt really seem to be a part of this mess.

[Rang10]

But I didn't say that. Please, check my comment on #3602.

I just questioned how the characters feel. That hasn't been shown to us.

It's because it simply isn't happening. Writers are leaving open without any confirmation, readers need to understand that if writers leve it open it isn't canon

If you ignore continuity - especially recent continuity - sure.

Scott could have got back together with Emma after AvX. Adult Jean wasn't even alive back then, there was nothing stopping him, except the fact that he didn't want it anymore. And he made it clear in no uncertain terms.

Then both Scott and Jean in her resurrection story tell they love and miss each other. The hug and kiss and they seem very much in love. Then on his resurrection story, he's eager to go meet Jean and never mentions Emma once.

When they finally reunite at the end of Uncanny, Jean walks past Logan to go kiss Scott passionately. She doesn't even acknowledge Logan's presence. Scott kisses her back just as passionately as if he wasn't aware that Emma is around either.

What made them go from that to being in an open marriage is pure speculation, because it was never actually shown. And trust me: I'd love to know. But they said they're leaving things vague on purpose. What can we do?

it makes zero sense with continuity, that is just fanfic from just one writer that doesn't even work on it very well.

To like Hickamn writing people have to create headcanons and ignore who the characters really are. It's bad stuff that screw over Jean Grey the most

[Daedra]

It's because it simply isn't happening. Writers are leaving open without any confirmation, readers need to understand that if writers leve it open it isn't canon

Plausible deniability, when and if will be convenient to them they will tell fans it was all in their head, “coward” writing at his finest.

[Rang10]

Plausible deniability, when and if will be convenient to them the will tell fans it was all in their head, “coward” writing at his finest.

This remembers me Claremont, he said that he left it open so people can interpret on their own way of Kitty is bi or straight. Then some time ago people harassed a dude on twitter because he only wanted to recognize her as bi if it was clear canon.
I think it only attracts harassment when people want it confirmed as canon and don't want to accept th gospel from popular accounts

Nostalgia or Headcanon is whats driving all of these characters(I mean the four of them) with respective relationships in these era. I don't think there is any profundity towards whats happening in their relationships.

It's all crap writing. There is nothing deep because relationships are just used to make a point "look Jean is married again to cyclops and they have a family"

This type of relationship that has no depth, doesn't add nothing to the character is really toxic

[Grinning Soul]

The Scott, Jean, Logan thing is canon. Not so much Emma. She doesnt really seem to be a part of this mess.

It's implied, though. In X-Men #3, both Scott and Emma arrive late, together, to the Council meeting. Jean doesn't seem very happy about it. Then later, the old gals of Hordeculture say: "I like married men and taking their things. It's not my fault that sometimes they die in car crashes." "Speaking of unsavory women... this one looks like a tart." "Uh-huh. She dresses like a s-word with a serious p-word problem. You need to wash yourself girl."

Emma looks shocked and Scott looks very embarassed. The Emma says "(...)So, dear, if you could hit these... ladies harder than you normally would, it would only make me love you more".

There's that issue of FF and X-men that Scott flirts a little with Emma, saying saying something like: "you know me: I live to serve".

When Kitty dies, Storm asks Emma where she had been and if she was too distracted visiting the moon (or something to this effect). Kurt asks Scott what he and Jean talked about concerning the Crucible. Then he asks what Scott and Emma talked about it. And on Cable, Scott is on Emma's boat when she's having a day off.

It's heavily implied and we maybe see something more explicit during the Hellfire Gala.

[Rang10]

It's implied, though. In X-Men #3, both Scott and Emma arrive late, together, to the Council meeting. Jean doesn't seem very happy about it. Then later, the old gals of Hordeculture say: "I like married men and taking their things. It's not my fault that sometimes they die in car crashes." "Speaking of unsavory women... this one looks like a tart." "Uh-huh. She dresses like a s-word with a serious p-word problem. You need to wash yourself girl."

Emma looks shocked and Scott looks very embarassed. The Emma says "(...)So, dear, if you could hit these... ladies harder than you normally would, it would only make me love you more".

There's that issue of FF and X-men that Scott flirts a little with Emma, saying saying something like: "you know me: I live to serve".

When Kitty dies, Storm asks Emma where she had been and if she was too distracted visiting the moon (or something to this effect). Kurt asks Scott what he and Jean talked about concerning the Crucible. Then he asks what Scott and Emma talked about it. And on Cable, Scott is on Emma's boat when she's having a day off.

It's heavily implied and we maybe see something more explicit during the Hellfire Gala.

too much headcanon and not enough evidence

I WISH that were true.

They should have gotten together a looooong time ago at the end of New X-Men. It should be old hat by now. Wolverine should be the live-in boyfriend of the Grey Zone on the moon. With Cyclops and Emma living in Cyclops' diamond palace on Earth.

It's the way Lords Claremont and Morrison clearly laid out for us.

Morrison is far away from being a Logan/Jean shipper. he was absolute against it LOL

Anyway it is good to see a shippers that doesn't accept scraps from writers