Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[Brian B]

That might explain her attraction to Logan but how does that make them a good couple?

Jean and Scott have shared countless of steaming hot kisses, jokes, sexual innuendos, etc... Even when they're perfectly behaved (again, pre-Krakoa), they can't keep their hands off each other. Their chemistry is insane. And on top of that, they're great friends, they've shared their minds for about 15-20 years, they've been with each other through thick and thin.

Again: in a non-Krakoan setting, why would this woman prefer Logan?

I suggest that Wolverine is as much Mr. X-Men as Scott these days. That’s why they’re getting together, as a throuple or as Jean is cheating, whichever. Motivation is the same — Wolverine has what Ariana Grande looks for in a boyfriend.

BUT, there is an alternative. Maybe Jean’s getting down with Wolverine for revenge on Scott, for Emma. “Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned,” as they say. Jean could be trying to hit Scott where it hurts.

I don’t think that’s the motive, but it could be.

It could also be that Jean likes sex, a lot. The Black Queen didn’t come from nowhere. It was all about Jean’s desires, remember?

So, there’s three possible motives. I’m sure there’s more.

[Rang10]

That Krakoa and/or the resurrection protocal is/are affenting people's behaviour is a possibility in my mind, actually. Pure speculation, obviously, but it might be why they keep everything deliberately vague.

As for what makes a woman attracted to a man...? Who knows? It varies greatly. I'm attracted to "alphas", but my definition of an alpha certainly doesn't include Logan. There are women who are attracted to his type, though.

Yeah there is a lot of Speculation but I see a lot of Krakoa being handwaved as explanation. And what Maverick said to Logan on Wolverine book makes me think more and more on krakoa manipulation.

Well women are attracted to a wide variety of men. I hate the Alpha explanation because it is shallow and nothing like Jean.

[Wiccan]

That might explain her attraction to Logan but how does that make them a good couple?

Jean and Scott have shared countless of steaming hot kisses, jokes, sexual innuendos, etc... Even when they're perfectly behaved (again, pre-Krakoa), they can't keep their hands off each other. Their chemistry is insane. And on top of that, they're great friends, they've shared their minds for about 15-20 years, they've been with each other through thick and thin.

Again: in a non-Krakoan setting, why would this woman prefer Logan?

I wouldn't say she prefers him. Obviously Scott is the love of her life. And they still seem to be each other's primary partners. She's just not denying herself to have both.

Also the explanation that women are attracted to men because they are "alphas" is so bad. That si what you see on 4chans

As a gay guy I like what some would call "alpha" (though the term itself is cringy, especially when self-proclaimed lol) men like Logan. I'm sure there are women who are into that too, and like it or not Jean has been one of them ever since Claremont decided to make the Jean/Logan attraction mutual rather than just him having a crush.

It's not some sort of submission thing though. Jean has always been portrayed as his equal, if not able to one-up him.

[PlacidMule]

But didn’t Mariko and her family reject Wolverine?

She did, but in storylines where she had to out of honor and they would mend the rift. Since its a thread about Jean, she rejected him multiple times, and he eventually came to peace with it and stopped as a rival for her affections. He actually supported her marriage by stopping Sabretooth from interjecting and attacking. It wasn't until Morrison and the Fox movies, that the "romance" was brought back and he rejected her.

Even the Fox movies moved away from Jean/Logan and to Scott/Jean when they brought in their younger selves. However, let's face it outside of the initial X-men movie (as an introduction), X2 and DOFP (where an attraction with Logan is shown but no true romance until The Wolverine (which also introduced Mariko, bringing the conversation full circle); she was with Scott), the Fox movies weren't really that good. The Deadpool's were good as well.

[Rang10]

As a gay guy I like what some would call "alpha" (though the term itself is cringy, especially when self-proclaimed lol) men like Logan. I'm sure there are women who are into that too, and like it or not Jean has been one of them ever since Claremont decided to make the Jean/Logan attraction mutual rather than just him having a crush.

Well Claremont made it via retcon and harassment. I don't know why people are defending this toxic relationship.
Canon can be re-retonned, it is just writers and readers romanticizing sexual harassment.
majority of women aren't attracted to Logan, Jean shouldnt be attracted too

I
It's not some sort of submission thing though. Jean has always been portrayed as his equal, if not able to one-up him.

Like when he killed her? they aren't equal

Okay, this explains a lot.

1) In your view, Scott does not know. Thus, Jean is cheating.

Okay, that could be the case. The dialogue seems to indicate otherwise, but Scott has never explicitly said to Wolverine or Jean, “Your turn with her tonight,” or “We all switch places when I ring the bell.” Yes, it’s possible Jean is a cheater.

2) You are counting on Marvel to entirely retcon the whole run of Hickman X books to never have happened.

Again, that’s possible. Marvel may do that. But, that’s not here and now, today in Marvel’s stories. That’s just wishful thinking.

You as a reader think Jean is a cheater and you’re hoping it all goes away. That’s certainly a viable viewpoint, with a desire for different stories entirely.

Is it safe to say you hate the Hickman-run X-Men and X titles, Rang10?

It2s canon that Scott doesn't know.

Hickman's run doesn't need to be whole retconned away to future writers ignore it. He kinda of did it with his work on Avengers

[PlacidMule]

You are correct. I should have been more specific. I mean that he doesn’t debilitate substantial female superheroes that should exist outside his orbit.

They will definitely make a new girl for Wolverine to bang and forget every other Wednesday in his solos.

IKR. It's almost as if the writers are living out their own fantasies …LOL

[Rang10]

IKR. It's almost as if the writers are living out their own fantasies …LOL

perfect explanation. Writers want to write their fantasies into Wolverine. let's not pretend that Jean/logan isn't anything else but a writers fantasy

[Brian B]

She married Wolverine. She is a ninja now, it only needs a writer to want to write it.

I hate how writers neglect his japanese family. They even neglect Gabby and Laura

What issue did Mariko marry Wolverine? All I remember of that is her family rejecting Wolverine, and then Mariko feeling honor-bound to clean up the crime family, followed by death, resurrection, becoming some kind of ninja, etc. I don’t remember them getting married.

Or are you saying that all it takes for them to get married is a writer to make it happen?

I’m having a hard time in discussing the world of X following what you would like to see, vs. what has actually happened in the Marvel comics.

[Zelena]

Well Claremont made it via retcon and harassment. I don't know why people are defending this toxic relationship.
Canon can be re-retonned, it is just writers and readers romanticizing sexual harassment.
majority of women aren't attracted to Logan, Jean shouldnt be attracted too

From what I read pre-Hickman, my opinion was that Jean was attracted to Logan but loved Scott.

So, unless Scott was “out of order”, Jean wouldn’t go to Logan. (But, if Scott says “Go, girl! Enjoy yourself!” which is rather unlikely in my headcanon…)

[Vishop]

I disagree. Rose in Origins, Silver Fox (twice), Seraph, Mariko..... I'm sure there are more. All created or eventually used as plot points and then killed just to further Wolverine's story. Of course Mariko has come back, but for someone who was the "love of his life", she has been relegated to obscurity except for a quick plot point in Percy's book.

First of all People can date multiple characters. Second neither Silver Fox(for the second time) or Mariko was dating him when they died. Silver Fox's resurrection was retcon for sure but thats it. Third a lot of flashbacks that were hinted from his past indicated that Logan subconsciously feels and sees for Jean as Rose. So is to say that there could have a lot of scope in this relationship but after Tieri, writers didn't really cared.

[Rang10]

From what I read pre-Hickman, my opinion was that Jean was attracted to Logan but loved Scott.

So, unless Scott was “out of order”, Jean wouldn’t go to Logan. (But, if Scott says “Go, girl! Enjoy yourself!” which is rather unlikely in my headcanon…)

headcanon you mean canon. Scott would never say that and Jean would never do that.
I think she was attracted but it faded away as the marriage became serious and they raised Cable on the future.

She did, but in storylines where she had to out of honor and they would mend the rift. Since its a thread about Jean, she rejected him multiple times, and he eventually came to peace with it and stopped as a rival for her affections. He actually supported her marriage by stopping Sabretooth from interjecting and attacking. It wasn't until Morrison and the Fox movies, that the "romance" was brought back and he rejected her.

Even the Fox movies moved away from Jean/Logan and to Scott/Jean when they brought in their younger selves. However, let's face it outside of the initial X-men movie (as an introduction), X2 and DOFP (where an attraction with Logan is shown but no true romance until The Wolverine (which also introduced Mariko, bringing the conversation full circle); she was with Scott), the Fox movies weren't really that good. The Deadpool's were good as well.

Morrison didn't made Logan/Jean any romantic. She was still all about Scott and Logan was supportive of the marriage. It was Casey that started it again, it was mostly forgotten before Casey.

This brings back the nostalgia that doesn't let characters move on.

I also think the movies made Logan/jean a lot bigger deal than they ever were on comics.

[Grinning Soul]

I wouldn't say she prefers him. Obviously Scott is the love of her life. And they still seem to be each other's primary partners. She's just not denying herself to have both.

The "prefer" was in a pre-Krakoan context, when she was still written as a monogamous person. Right now, both are her lovers and talking about preference doesn't make much sense. :)

I'm very cautious when talking about whatever is going on in Krakoa because they're keeping everything deliberately vague and I try to take facts into consideration when I'm engaging in a discussion about a certain aspect of the story.

As a gay guy I like what some would call "alpha" (though the term itself is cringy, especially when self-proclaimed lol) men like Logan. I'm sure there are women who are into that too, and like it or not Jean has been one of them ever since Claremont decided to make the Jean/Logan attraction mutual rather than just him having a crush.

Yes, she is certainly attracted to him. I don't like it, but like I said on another post, I admit and accept it.

I think what bothers Rang is that all women who meet Logan seem to be attracted to him. In my opinion, that's absurd.

It's not some sort of submission thing though. Jean has always been portrayed as his equal, if not able to one-up him.

I'd say he even sees her as his superior.

[Zelena]

headcanon you mean canon. Scott would never say that and Jean would never do that.

Past readings built my headcanon but if new writers contradict what I think real and true, it’s still canon but I cannot add it to old stuff.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

I wouldn't say she prefers him. Obviously Scott is the love of her life. And they still seem to be each other's primary partners. She's just not denying herself to have both.



As a gay guy I like what some would call "alpha" (though the term itself is cringy, especially when self-proclaimed lol) men like Logan. I'm sure there are women who are into that too, and like it or not Jean has been one of them ever since Claremont decided to make the Jean/Logan attraction mutual rather than just him having a crush.

It's not some sort of submission thing though. Jean has always been portrayed as his equal, if not able to one-up him.

If anything, if we are using toxic 4chan/Cyke fan terms, Logan is a simp for Jean, not Mr. Macho Alpha. He's always pining. She's the dom when you give it more than a cursory glance. That's part of why I like them lmao. And he doesn't run away from her power.

[Rang10]

Past readings built my headcanon but if new writers contradict what I think real and true, it’s still canon but I cannot add it to old stuff.

Well writers can be wrong, they don't even have the final word. how many runs got retconned. Even peter parker has a sister

Yes, she is certainly attracted to him. I don't like it, but like I said on another post, I admit and accept it.

I think what bothers Rang is that all women who meet Logan seem to be attracted to him. In my opinion, that's absurd.

Of course it bothers me. Writers need to stop inserting theirselves as the male characters. People like to use Mary Sue on female characters, but there is a bunch of male characters that are mary sues

I'd say he even sees her as his superior.

now this is headcanon haha for sure writers don't see Jean Grey as superior to Wolverine. So what the characters think has no bearing