Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[Lucyinthesky]

It's certainly not. I think itÂ’s just too tempting for the writers, who are often very reductive when theyÂ’re portraying Jean.
Like I said, I was bitter. I’m still working on my relationship with Marvel. Matters of trust, like being able to tell myself “no, they’d never do that” when it comes to *anything* concerning Jean, are still a big issue.

Agreed sometimes marvel likes to do stories for schock value and all characters can be affected for this reason.

Judging by an interview Duggan gave, I have a feeling he doesn’t feel very comfortable or free to write a “shared character”. This *might* be why he didn’t use Jean much in Cable. It might also be the excuse he gives himself for not having much interest to write the character. Who knows?

I think Duggan was keeping closed a lot of answers because Planet Size is his big story for the Gala and his X-men book most probably will have call backs to it so he doens´t want to share too many answers yet but after the Gala I am sure he will get an interview where he can tell his plans for the title in a more broad way.

Now, for what I understood of the interview, a “shared character” is more than a character who can make a little appearance here and there. For instance, Jean appeared on the last issue of New Mutants, but she’s not part of the regular cast. So, when it comes to New Mutants, she’s not a shared character.

Yes I think one is more like a cameo but her part on X-force would be more a shared character because she was part of the team.

As far as I understand, though, Jean is still part of the regular cast of X-Force, even if the character isnÂ’t part of the team anymore.
If thatÂ’s true, Duggan might still feel the same way and heÂ’ll keep JeanÂ’s appearance limited to a very non-committing presence so it doesnÂ’t interfere to whatever is happening in X-Force.

Now, I do *NOT* know if thatÂ’s the case. But if it is, itÂ’s worrisome because her role in the X-Force at the moment is just mentor/love interest. While in X-Men sheÂ’s the co-leader/reason for the team to exist. So IÂ’d prefer her to be part of the main cast of X-Men exclusively.

She could still make appearances in all the other books, just not as part of the main cast.

I don´t know, I think Percy has been aware for some time of her role on X-men and he has written her in supporting roles for the team and given they are both X-books I don´t think it´s really a problem, we will just see her on both books, I think it´s different to the case of Storm(Who went to appear on Black Panther/Avengers/FF4 under a different editorial and this really affected her appareances on the X-books or even Rogue´s case when she went to be part of Uncanny Avengers and her main appearences were there but in the case of Jean and X-men/X-force I don´t see that kind of trouble, especially since the X-office is working closer than ever.

At this point, considering all the BS weÂ’ve been through and the stories we were indirectly asked to ignore, IÂ’d be okay if Marvel acted like this never happened.

Agreed

But judging by the reaction of some fans, it didnÂ’t bother them. Their reaction makes me feel very weird tooÂ… I understand fandom is an emotional thing, but itÂ’s like some people will like and defend just about anythingÂ…

I mean, people have the right to think and feel whatever they want. ItÂ’s just very surprising to me to see some reactions sometimes.

I think it´s not weird, the problem is that some of us see it as unnecesarily violent while some think of it as a way for the character to get back their agency because they were not given that after their powers were taken from them. It´s just people see it in a different way, still I think the agency part can be gained back without that kind of act but that´s my oppinion.

Oh, poor Wanda. That would give the readers who are in ExodusÂ’ cult even more reason to hate her!

I would not mind to see her and Exodus fight it off, should be interesting

Confession time: IÂ’ve read that book many times. Sometimes I read it just because IÂ’m having a tough day and I can use some hope. Sometimes I read it just because IÂ’m having a wonderful day and that issue resonates with it. Sometimes, itÂ’s for no particular reason. Regardless of what motivated me to read it again, if I manage not to cry until I get to that scene, thatÂ’s where the floodgates are opened. Every. Time. But honestly, the whole thing just warms my heart. The boys trying to help Scott with the bow tie and Bobby joking it will be very embarrassing if the bride gets ready before the groom. Elaine worried Jean might trip while walking down the isle, as if a telekinetic mutant would fall on her face on her wedding day!

I live for those little things!

And then, the big things, of course, which are seen through CharlesÂ’ perspective and feelingsÂ… It reads so real. I canÂ’t. ItÂ’s too much for my little heart.What makes it great, I think, itÂ’s because itÂ’s not just about Scott and Jean, but also all the X-Men around them and how that wedding is significant too all of them. ItÂ’s beautiful.

Agreed it gives me warm feelings as well, it´s like seeing old friends again after a while and how good things can be when they are allowed to be human and be together.

I think pre-Krakoan, when concerns about death were more justifiable, Charles saw both Jean and Scott as his heirs. And the fact they were so important to each other made the question of leadership irrelevant: he knew that even if one was seen as *the* leader, the other would be the person behind the crown, so-to-speak.
Scott and Jean arenÂ’t just emotionally very close. TheyÂ’re intellectually very close as well, even though (and perhaps because) their ways of thinking are so distinct: their rational/emotional/pragmatic/idealistic dynamics really bring up the best of them in both of them.
ItÂ’s like Logan wrote in his letter to them: "(...) each one makes the whole stronger than the parts".

Agreed they look like a unit and that´s also why I think it´s important for them to explore how they went back to it.

MmmÂ… Post Krakoan, because of what Moira did to Charles, all the secrets and the existence of the protocols, I donÂ’t think Charles still sees her as his heir. Or Scott.
And especially now that they are reforming the X-Men.

Agreed, its obvious he´s keeping secrets from them, something he did before but I think what he has been able to share with them, he already has done so.

IÂ’d like to point out, though, that I think Charles is actually happy that Jean and Scott are getting the X-Men back together. I think deep, deep down, Moira didnÂ’t break him completely and he feels proud of them and that fact that something of his old dream still lives in their hearts.

I think sometimes fans read too much into "Moira breaking him" imo that part of her diary was about Onslaught becoming a crisis for all of them but he wasn´t born from nothing or just because Moira wanted to "break him" he was born from Charles tendency to suppress his darker emotions and feelings so when he felt like he was going no-where with his mission of coexistence and add to it all the stress from losing his students to the legacy virus and even having to shut down Magneto´s mind added for that sudden moment of anger.

This is my theory but I think this happened again after he came back to life, after being killed first by Bishop and the by Phoenix Scott and having to deal with Shadow King for a long time, he didn´t act the same, he was younger and more pragmatic than ever and given how the world reacted to the X-men being away, by attacking and killing all the Academy students, I could see him finally giving Moira the go ahead to create Krakoa but without all those events happening I don´t think he would have changed much his point of view, given what he was doing on Genosha during Excalibur was just give some help to Magneto rebuild the island but his main mission still were the X-men, now things have changed.

I donÂ’t think Xorn has much to do with it. I think Magneto regressed in many ways and adult Jean has no interest in interacting with him on a personal level, because she knows what he stands for. And he probably doesnÂ’t want to interact much with her because he knows sheÂ’s potentially dangerous when it comes to his own resolution about Krakoa as a concept and the secrets heÂ’s keeping.

I don´t really think he sees her as dangerous but they agree they are just interacting because of the situation, not because they want to.

Still I don´t think he has regressed, more like different writers have different takes on him, Hickman/Spurrier/Leah have write him in a little more grey way, the magneto who keeps secrets while Ewing/Duggan/Tini write him as he has been during the Utopia, X-men Blue era, someone who just wants to help mutankind but also humanity and without losing that personal relationships that make him enjoy his mission despite himself like his friendship with Charles, Emma and Kitty or his care for Lorna.

I think if Krakoa era ends on a schism I could easily see the X-men going back to their mission on NY and maybe a part of Krakoa´s habitant´s will go with them while Magneto stays on Krakoa, that´s where the Genoshan mutants are and it´s his life mission but he will not hold harsh feelings for the X-men if it comes to that.

IÂ’m trying to remain neutral but my first instinct was to be afraid of it.

Why afraid of it, I think we will see some real answers of what´s really happening, imo we have only seen the beggining of the story.

[Grinning Soul]

I think Duggan was keeping closed a lot of answers because Planet Size is his big story for the Gala and his X-men book most probably will have call backs to it so he doens´t want to share too many answers yet but after the Gala I am sure he will get an interview where he can tell his plans for the title in a more broad way.

I think I was talking about a different interview though. The one I mentioned is this:

https://sktchd.libsyn.com/off-panel-...h-gerry-duggan

Duggan seems to be very respectful of those “shared characters” and the stories of which they are already part. It’s a long interview, but he talks it as he answers the question at about 41:00. At 43:46, he gets to the issue of “shared characters”.

Yes I think one is more like a cameo but her part on X-force would be more a shared character because she was part of the team.

I think she’s still part of the cast, even though she’s not on the team. I’d prefer if it wasn’t the case, because I have zero interest in seeing her coaching Quentin or acting like a girlfriend to Logan.

I think it´s not weird, the problem is that some of us see it as unnecesarily violent while some think of it as a way for the character to get back their agency because they were not given that after their powers were taken from them. It´s just people see it in a different way, still I think the agency part can be gained back without that kind of act but that´s my opinion.

I *think* I could get behind the aspect of fighting for the right to get resurrected when it comes to some characters. I say “think” because not every mutant is a fighter and to force them to go through it doesn’t seem right to me.

But I guess that, if I had to pick just one aspect, I'd say it’s the public nature of it that disturbs me the most. Why does it have to be a spectacle or a celebration, when it’s supposed to be so intimate? This hive mentality of Krakoa really rubs me the wrong way. I'm all for sharing and solidarity, but not at the expense of individuality.

Before someone jumps in: those are just my feelings. Please, don’t feel offended by them.

I would not mind to see her and Exodus fight it off, should be interesting :)

I’m not a huge fan of the character, but I feel really sorry for her. I wish the X-Office would leave her alone.

Agreed it gives me warm feelings as well, it´s like seeing old friends again after a while and how good things can be when they are allowed to be human and be together.

And they feel genuinely happy too. They don’t need to tell each other they’re happier than ever for us, readers, to get that. Major difference in tone, in my opinion, compared to the comics from 2000s until today.

Agreed they look like a unit and that´s also why I think it´s important for them to explore how they went back to it.

But that’s the thing… Have they? Same stuff of the previous answer… Yes, there will be the X-Men now, but will it feel real or their union is just the premise for the book?

Old adage for storytelling: show, don’t tell.

I think sometimes fans read too much into "Moira breaking him" imo that part of her diary was about Onslaught becoming a crisis for all of them but he wasn´t born from nothing or just because Moira wanted to "break him" he was born from Charles tendency to suppress his darker emotions and feelings so when he felt like he was going no-where with his mission of coexistence and add to it all the stress from losing his students to the legacy virus and even having to shut down Magneto´s mind added for that sudden moment of anger.

I read Moira “breaking” Charles as simply making him less of an idealist so he could go from the dream of co-existence to Krakoa. I never read anything beyond that.

I don´t really think he sees her as dangerous but they agree they are just interacting because of the situation, not because they want to.

I guess I should have said *potentially* dangerous. :)

I think he sees all telepaths as dangerous. Emma might know about Moira, but I really don’t think Jean does.

I think Jean could also be dangerous because he knows how influential she is amongst the most influential X-Men. Jean could easily break that society in two if she had reason to do so.

Still I don´t think he has regressed, more like different writers have different takes on him, Hickman/Spurrier/Leah have write him in a little more grey way, the magneto who keeps secrets while Ewing/Duggan/Tini write him as he has been during the Utopia, X-men Blue era, someone who just wants to help mutankind but also humanity and without losing that personal relationships that make him enjoy his mission despite himself like his friendship with Charles, Emma and Kitty or his care for Lorna.

How can I explain that…? Sure, different writers portray him differently. But the overall “feeling” I get is that, in his heart, he’s back at being a mutant supremacist who just isn’t acting on it because of Charles and the plan they have for Krakoa.

I think if Krakoa era ends on a schism I could easily see the X-men going back to their mission on NY and maybe a part of Krakoa´s habitant´s will go with them while Magneto stays on Krakoa, that´s where the Genoshan mutants are and it´s his life mission but he will not hold harsh feelings for the X-men if it comes to that.

It’s possible, I guess.

But I don’t think Krakoa era is ending any time soon, so I find it hard to speculate at this point. There must be quite some more stuff happening from now until that point.

Besides, Marvel being Marvel, I wouldn’t put it past them creating a Mutant Civil War over something silly. :)

Why afraid of it, I think we will see some real answers of what´s really happening, imo we have only seen the beggining of the story.

Afraid for Jean. The thing is called Inferno. It’s fear. It’s not rational by definition. :D

[Lucyinthesky]

I think I was talking about a different interview though. The one I mentioned is this:

https://sktchd.libsyn.com/off-panel-...h-gerry-duggan

Duggan seems to be very respectful of those “shared characters” and the stories of which they are already part. It’s a long interview, but he talks it as he answers the question at about 41:00. At 43:46, he gets to the issue of “shared characters”.

Ah that explains it, guess we will see how he writes Jean so far the first art from X-men looked good and Jean and Lorna were very active during the fight so I hope he also has an arc planned for her.

I think sheÂ’s still part of the cast, even though sheÂ’s not on the team. IÂ’d prefer if it wasnÂ’t the case, because I have zero interest in seeing her coaching Quentin or acting like a girlfriend to Logan.

Yes she´s part of the cast, I was just talking about her no longer wanting to be part of the team but Percy definitely is interested in writting her and I guess we will see where this relationship with Logan goes now that she´s moving to NY

I *think* I could get behind the aspect of fighting for the right to get resurrected when it comes to some characters. I say “think” because not every mutant is a fighter and to force them to go through it doesn’t seem right to me.

Agreed

But I guess that, if I had to pick just one aspect, I'd say itÂ’s the public nature of it that disturbs me the most. Why does it have to be a spectacle or a celebration, when itÂ’s supposed to be so intimate? This hive mentality of Krakoa really rubs me the wrong way. I'm all for sharing and solidarity, but not at the expense of individuality.

I think they were going for a kind of "Roman colloiseum" which makes me disagree even more with the idea because while Krakoa is quite new, One year is not enough to have the characters succedenly change their perspective on things even if they are trying to build a "mutant culture" so for me it´s completely plausible not every mutant agrees to crucible and for some to try to change the nature of it.

Before someone jumps in: those are just my feelings. Please, donÂ’t feel offended by them.

Agreed

IÂ’m not a huge fan of the character, but I feel really sorry for her. I wish the X-Office would leave her alone.

I like her a lot and would wish for the X-office to leave her alone, I have talked with her fans and most agree she should just keep herself out of mutant affairs and I guess that´s for the best, still I would like her and Exodus to fight it out, it´s been coming since the Bloodties crossover when he kidnapped Luna and tried to kill her and Pietro just because they were the "children of Magneto" I could see her just being annoyed now he´s building all this narrative over her being "the pretender" because she´s no longer a mutant of magneto´s daughter. She doesn´t care for Magneto(at least his mutant leader persona) but I can see her feeling hurt he´s adding fuel to the fire of decimation.

And they feel genuinely happy too. They donÂ’t need to tell each other theyÂ’re happier than ever for us, readers, to get that. Major difference in tone, in my opinion, compared to the comics from 2000s until today.

Agreed I think modern comics could do with some of this type of quite scenes where characters can breath between events and really try to talk their issues and have a relationship with their families, I love this kind of stuff.

But thatÂ’s the thingÂ… Have they? Same stuff of the previous answerÂ… Yes, there will be the X-Men now, but will it feel real or their union is just the premise for the book?Old adage for storytelling: show, donÂ’t tell.

That´s the questions, I don´t think they have, at least not completely and imo they should stop beating around the issue and talk more openly about it one of the reasons fans became more accepting of the Emma/Scott relationship even if they hated it at first, that was my case, was because Whedon wrote them in a really interesting way in which both were quite honest with the other and talked about their fears so I don´t see why we can´t get similar and quite neccesary scenes between Scott and Jean given they have so much to talk to and so little time since both are alive and well, sometiems I felt like writers just go back to status quo with them without taking in consideration it would not be logical for them to just be that close again without some talk and agreetments first.

I read Moira “breaking” Charles as simply making him less of an idealist so he could go from the dream of co-existence to Krakoa. I never read anything beyond that.

I read it a little different given her worry over going too far with it and how this could affect the world at large, that was during Onslaught, but since the first HOX issue he´s been written in a way that gives me the bad feeling something quite wrong is going with him, his coldness, his anger, his manipulations are worse than ever because he usually cares to keep those aspects of himself in check and the return of Onslaught but also his use of the helmet at all times(which makes him seem similar to evil Reed Richards, even the art suggest there´s something not quite right going on with him so I am hopping INFERNO explains this in a bigger way.

I guess I should have said *potentially* dangerous. I think he sees all telepaths as dangerous. Emma might know about Moira, but I really donÂ’t think Jean does. I think Jean could also be dangerous because he knows how influential she is amongst the most influential X-Men. Jean could easily break that society in two if she had reason to do so.

I think this always has been quite curious about the character, he´s a very secretive person but has no problem to have a telepath as one of his best friends, same with Emma, who´s known to be quite liberal with her powers and that dychotomy is very interesting to me but this doesn´t mean he won´t suspect them or stop him from thinking they are too nosy but I don´t think he sees Jean that way, he mostly looks at Jean as the heir of charles and I think he respects her hability for self sacrifice but they are not close.

Now about Krakoa, I think if he were for him he would choose to tell the truth to the X-men so there are not surprises there in the path forward and he would be sure to count on them to keep Krakoa going on in his absence and this is also why he and Charles told Moira in no uncertain terms they wanted to tell the X-men all they know as well because secrets could/would just come back to undermine all they have built and after losing Genosha I don´t think Magneto wants that to happen again over keeping secrets.

Yes Jean could part Krakoa´s alliance in two but so could he or any of the different parties who were the main leaders of the mutant faction, Jean could take away the X-side but still plenty of other mutants no X-men aligned would keep their alliance with Krakoa depending of their disposition or perception but a schism is something that I don´t see right now the characters are interested and Magneto least of them all because he knows personally the consequences for internal fighting, he fought on Genosha civil war for a long time and with the X-men and I think he´s just tired of that, he rather would be ok with a portion of the population leaving if they are no longer happy on Krakoa than have another civil war with mutants.

How can I explain that…? Sure, different writers portray him differently. But the overall “feeling” I get is that, in his heart, he’s back at being a mutant supremacist who just isn’t acting on it because of Charles and the plan they have for Krakoa.

I think he´s being in separatist mode since at least Asteroid M, Avalon and Genosha with the exception of eve of destruction and even post Utopia worked with Maria Hill and Shield, the Avengers for the axis crisis, tried to stop the world from being destroyed during secret wars etc. while he certainly appreciates Charles presence he doesn´t really need him to be his "conscience" on this kind of things and I don´t think the writers think so either because Duggan wrote him giving refuge to a group of humans during King in Black and Genosha itself had a big human population living there, including Kitty´s father. The thing about Magneto is that he´s ok with mutants and humans living together what he has a problem with is to be subjected to only human authority because then he believes they will just abuse mutants from there, that fear comes directly from his chilhood and it´s quite hard for him to get over with and all that happened during the last X-men years have only given him reason to think he was right even if he respects and agress to a point with coexistence being neccesary as well. Hope this makes sense

ItÂ’s possible, I guess.
But I donÂ’t think Krakoa era is ending any time soon, so I find it hard to speculate at this point. There must be quite some more stuff happening from now until that point. Besides, Marvel being Marvel, I wouldnÂ’t put it past them creating a Mutant Civil War over something silly.

Yes I am already seeing them doing that and Hickman likes his infighting between heros so I am already getting ready for when or if it happens.

Afraid for Jean. The thing is called Inferno. ItÂ’s fear. ItÂ’s not rational by definition.

Yes the name does give back some memories but Yana, Jean, Scott and Maddie don´t seem to be getting a big part of it this could very well be Mystique secret rebelion for all we know, so don´t worry quite yet.

[Grinning Soul]

Ah that explains it, guess we will see how he writes Jean so far the first art from X-men looked good and Jean and Lorna were very active during the fight so I hope he also has an arc planned for her.

I want all the characters to shine. :)

Yes she´s part of the cast, I was just talking about her no longer wanting to be part of the team but Percy definitely is interested in writting her and I guess we will see where this relationship with Logan goes now that she´s moving to NY.

With all those portals, “moving” to NY doesn’t mean much, right? But I’d definitely love if she spent the least time as possible in Krakoa, the Summer House or The Pointe.

I think they were going for a kind of "Roman colloiseum" which makes me disagree even more with the idea because while Krakoa is quite new, One year is not enough to have the characters succedenly change their perspective on things even if they are trying to build a "mutant culture" so for me it´s completely plausible not every mutant agrees to crucible and for some to try to change the nature of it.

It’s like a said before: a lot of my problems with Krakoa is the time-frame. It’s just too quick. It makes me feel more tempted to believe that there’s something going on there, actually affecting those mutants.

Krakoa does drain some psychic energy from them. They eat and breathe and drink from Krakoa. Who knows what it’s doing to them…?

I like her a lot and would wish for the X-office to leave her alone, I have talked with her fans and most agree she should just keep herself out of mutant affairs and I guess that´s for the best, still I would like her and Exodus to fight it out, it´s been coming since the Bloodties crossover when he kidnapped Luna and tried to kill her and Pietro just because they were the "children of Magneto" I could see her just being annoyed now he´s building all this narrative over her being "the pretender" because she´s no longer a mutant of magneto´s daughter. She doesn´t care for Magneto(at least his mutant leader persona) but I can see her feeling hurt he´s adding fuel to the fire of decimation.

I just think whatever they make her do, it will only lead to making her look worse. I’m so tired of it. Leave the character alone already before it’s ruined beyond salvation. She’s not even a main player in the X-corner of the universe. She’s been mostly an Avenger. It’s not fair.

Agreed I think modern comics could do with some of this type of quite scenes where characters can breath between events and really try to talk their issues and have a relationship with their families, I love this kind of stuff.

Me too.

That´s the questions, I don´t think they have, at least not completely and imo they should stop beating around the issue and talk more openly about it one of the reasons fans became more accepting of the Emma/Scott relationship even if they hated it at first, that was my case, was because Whedon wrote them in a really interesting way in which both were quite honest with the other and talked about their fears so I don´t see why we can´t get similar and quite neccesary scenes between Scott and Jean given they have so much to talk to and so little time since both are alive and well, sometiems I felt like writers just go back to status quo with them without taking in consideration it would not be logical for them to just be that close again without some talk and agreetments first.

They want to leave Emma's part of this possible rectangle vague? All right.

But what I would really want to see is just Scott and Jean interacting with each other more. Even if they never mention Logan and Emma. I’d just like to have a better understanding of how they’re feeling towards each other.

They don’t seem to be talking much. They don’t seem to be very intimate in any way. That doesn’t mean they aren’t, I know. But we’re just not seeing much, so… it becomes mostly speculation of our part and we can argue either way.

I read it a little different given her worry over going too far with it and how this could affect the world at large, that was during Onslaught, but since the first HOX issue he´s been written in a way that gives me the bad feeling something quite wrong is going with him, his coldness, his anger, his manipulations are worse than ever because he usually cares to keep those aspects of himself in check and the return of Onslaught but also his use of the helmet at all times(which makes him seem similar to evil Reed Richards, even the art suggest there´s something not quite right going on with him so I am hopping INFERNO explains this in a bigger way.

True. But again: he’s also living in Krakoa. Most characters are behaving in a weird way, why should he be different, right?

I know: it’s just speculation from my part. But it’s been going on in all books (look at the changes in Betsy Bradock regarding how she relates to Krakoa, for instance, or Logan on his solo book), it makes me wonder if it can be a coincidence. It seems to me that the more time they spend on Krakoa (main island or habitats), the more it changes them. And it gets worse when they die and are brought back.

I think this always has been quite curious about the character, he´s a very secretive person but has no problem to have a telepath as one of his best friends, same with Emma, who´s known to be quite liberal with her powers and that dychotomy is very interesting to me but this doesn´t mean he won´t suspect them or stop him from thinking they are too nosy but I don´t think he sees Jean that way, he mostly looks at Jean as the heir of charles and I think he respects her hability for self sacrifice but they are not close.

I don’t think he sees Jean as nosy. But he knows she could be, so he certainly respects her but he keeps his distance not to give her any motive to be nosy, because he is holding all those secrets in his mind. That’s what I meant.

Now about Krakoa, I think if he were for him he would choose to tell the truth to the X-men so there are not surprises there in the path forward and he would be sure to count on them to keep Krakoa going on in his absence and this is also why he and Charles told Moira in no uncertain terms they wanted to tell the X-men all they know as well because secrets could/would just come back to undermine all they have built and after losing Genosha I don´t think Magneto wants that to happen again over keeping secrets.

And also because I think he has more of a blunt personality. He wants to inspire people to follow, he wants true believers.

Yes Jean could part Krakoa´s alliance in two but so could he or any of the different parties who were the main leaders of the mutant faction, Jean could take away the X-side but still plenty of other mutants no X-men aligned would keep their alliance with Krakoa depending of their disposition or perception

That’s what I meant. No character has more combined influence on Scott, Charles, Ororo and Logan. And those four have their own spheres of influence. If this would be a domino effect, and you got to flick a single piece to set things in motion, Jean is *the* piece that knocks the most pieces down.

but a schism is something that I don´t see right now the characters are interested and Magneto least of them all because he knows personally the consequences for internal fighting, he fought on Genosha civil war for a long time and with the X-men and I think he´s just tired of that, he rather would be ok with a portion of the population leaving if they are no longer happy on Krakoa than have another civil war with mutants.

He might be okay personally, but I think considering the risks they’re facing, he wouldn’t want that, which makes me circle back to him being very cautious when it comes to Jean.

Certainly, she’s not the only one. If Scott decided to leave it would also be a big problem, for instance.

I think he´s being in separatist mode since at least Asteroid M, Avalon and Genosha with the exception of eve of destruction and even post Utopia worked with Maria Hill and Shield, the Avengers for the axis crisis, tried to stop the world from being destroyed during secret wars etc. while he certainly appreciates Charles presence he doesn´t really need him to be his "conscience" on this kind of things.

No, not conscience. It’s more about the plan they made together with Moira. The fact that he gets to be aligned with his friends, working on the same goal is an incentive to keep him in check. But not in the sense that Charles is his “conscience”.

and I don´t think the writers think so either because Duggan wrote him giving refuge to a group of humans during King in Black and Genosha itself had a big human population living there, including Kitty´s father. (...)Hope this makes sense :)

Yep. Got it. :)

Yes I am already seeing them doing that and Hickman likes his infighting between heros so I am already getting ready for when or if it happens.

If this happens - which I hope it doesn’t - I hope they’ll give us an actual good reason.

Yes the name does give back some memories but Yana, Jean, Scott and Maddie don´t seem to be getting a big part of it this could very well be Mystique secret rebelion for all we know, so don´t worry quite yet.

Hickman has been working with a lot of parallels so the choice of the name makes me worry indeed. But, like everything else, we have to wait to see, right? :)

[PowerPlay25]

Sigh, I had always hoped (if Scott and Jean didn't work out) we might get Steve Rogers/Jean Grey.

After the opening of the Gala......well, you'll know when you read it.

[Harpsikord]

Sigh, I had always hoped (if Scott and Jean didn't work out) we might get Steve Rogers/Jean Grey.

After the opening of the Gala......well, you'll know when you read it.

Listen... I doubt that Jean would remind Steve of his mother.

spoilers:

It kind of puts the kibosh on the Emma/Scott part of the polyamorous relationship though, thank god.

end of spoilers

[Krakoa]

Listen... I doubt that Jean would remind Steve of his mother.

spoilers:

It kind of puts the kibosh on the Emma/Scott part of the polyamorous relationship though, thank god.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

In what way does it do that? If Jean and Scott can be together while Emma and Scott are together I'd assume Emma can also be with others.

end of spoilers

[Harpsikord]

spoilers:

In what way does it do that? If Jean and Scott can be together while Emma and Scott are together I'd assume Emma can also be with others.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

Because Emma's specifically not in a relationship with anyone even if they're sleeping with one another, which I still find doubtful. For her to be an actual part of the polyamorous relationship she has to, you know, actually be IN the relationship.

end of spoilers

[Rang10]

spoilers:

Because Emma's specifically not in a relationship with anyone even if they're sleeping with one another, which I still find doubtful. For her to be an actual part of the polyamorous relationship she has to, you know, actually be IN the relationship.

end of spoilers

Exactly. Now people gonna do more mallabarism to make their headcanon the official cannon
also too much assuming instead of reaising what is on page, this is crystal clear

Sigh, I had always hoped (if Scott and Jean didn't work out) we might get Steve Rogers/Jean Grey.

After the opening of the Gala......well, you'll know when you read it.

Seems like Emma after going for Cyclops, now she is going for one of the best pairs for Jean grey. Someone should stop Duggan from writing, Captain is dating Sharon and he would never date Emma

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

They are determined to let Emma free to be her own character, meanwhile Jean is trapped. This is injustice.

Anyway, they should go about doing the StarkFrost relationship that one story joked about. Let new things happen.

[Grinning Soul]

Sigh, I had always hoped (if Scott and Jean didn't work out) we might get Steve Rogers/Jean Grey.

After the opening of the Gala......well, you'll know when you read it.

:(

I think they'd be a good couple in theory too, but I prefer Jean to stay with the X-Men because it's where her friends are and we already get to few intereactions between them as it is. :(

I won't comment about the spoilers yet, I'll just say this: it gives me hope.

[Conor]

Jean’s cameo in Marauders was cool today. The psychic butterflies compliments of Jean and the Cuckoos were a nice touch. The only thing I found jarring was Emma referring to Jean as Marvel Girl, it just feels so wrong!

[loke13]

Jean’s cameo in Marauders was cool today. The psychic butterflies compliments of Jean and the Cuckoos were a nice touch. The only thing I found jarring was Emma referring to Jean as Marvel Girl, it just feels so wrong!

I mean. That's her superhero name she did the same to Rhapsody

[Conor]

I mean. That's her superhero name she did the same to Rhapsody

I know. They’re making a point to identify mutants specifically by their code names/mutant identities. It just feels odd seeing Jean addressed by her peers, especially Emma, as Marvel Girl instead of Phoenix or simply Jean Grey, as her birth name and reputation as a mutant is publicly known anyway.

[Grinning Soul]

I know. They’re making a point to identify mutants specifically by their code names/mutant identities. It just feels odd seeing Jean addressed by her peers, especially Emma, as Marvel Girl instead of Phoenix or simply Jean Grey, as her birth name and reputation as a mutant is publicly known anyway.

Or Marvel Woman.