Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[Grinning Soul]

They probably will still be using their house in the Moon, it´s useful to look out for emergencias but I also expect them to live at NY given they want to get back their allies and the rest of the word good faith on the X-men and that they want to fight for everybody.

It it was up to me, they’d spend the whole time in NY, better yet if the place wasn’t a Krakoa habitat. But when you consider the state of mind of his brothers and the fact there’s a cerebro back-up there, I think they’d probably be going back and forth. And, you know, with those gates available, there would be no reason not to do it anyway.

Agreed Krakoa showed on X of Swords it´s not bad but it has different perception to other mutants and it would be expected and even has began to develop a protective relationship with Doug so yes, I don´t think it wants to harm them but it wants to keep them happy.

The question is: how much is this happiness forced on them? We just don’t know. But I think it’s looking more and more like a symbiosis, which is an idea that I should also try not to think about it.

Well I like her so I would not mind a visit sometimes but I understand why you and most of her fans don´t want her around X-titles and it´s fine she´s really an Avenger , Pietro may be another story, I would love to see him talk to Lorna again but yes Wanda doens´t have much reason to want to interact with the X-side unless absolutely neccesary :D

I’m not a huge fan, but I like her too. And that’s the only reason why I want her as far away from the X-Office as possible. I don’t see anything good for Wanda coming from the mutant corner of the MU at this moment.

Yes Logan definitely can have his own relationships outside of Jean and Scott but then again he´s living with them and I would like to know how did that happen because yes this makes Jean look like she´s the only one with an open relationship and Scott is just dealing with it and I don´t think it looks good on any of them tbh.

Personally, the open marriage, regardless of who is the lover of who is my main issue here.

It’s the reaction of other fans that worry me and it’s what I was saying it before: the only one showing anything is Percy, if the x-office decides to walk back on it, Jean would be the one to blame for the end of the marriage or whatever, so…

I just don’t want even more hate on her.

Exactly they also need to talk about what they expect to do with the team going forward and how they keep ties with Krakoa while helping everybody.

I’m all for cutting all ties from Krakoa. That place creeps me out and I want my darlings away from it. But yeah… they probably wouldn’t want that. At least for now.

Scott is still the Grand Captain of krakoa so he probably can call whoever he wishes if he needs to develop a strategy and still the team has plenty of fight power so I guess he considers that option until it´s really neccesary.

Even if he wasn’t, he knows enough people who are friends/respect him and who would certainly join if he asked. But thinking about his thinking of the possibility that he could have ended up with a team that would be a total mess is… interesting.

If he was really relaxed about that… well, I’d say those Krakoan vapours do seem to calm his nerves down, don’t they? :P

I’m telling you: this place is weird.

Yes it looks that way and that´s the reason why David trust Kurt more, he already took that bug from him but everybody else could be under the influence and he doesn´t want to involve Xavier or Magneto because Onslaught has a mind relationship with them so he could take over them if neccesary.

I’ve been really wondering about it since I read the last issue of Way of X. If it’s not something that everyone has, why would Kurt have it? Do you get one when you’re resurrected and their minds are backed-up? Do you get one when you join the Quiet Council? What would be the common denominator, you know? And how does it possibly affect our girl?

Agreed they have a coalition goverment, not everybody would follow just one of them but if one of the leaders is unhappy and leaves that would bring instant schism for everybody else, I guess that´s part of why they are all making a effort of getting along.

Well, I think it depends a bit on how they leave, right? After all, Jean left. I think anyone could walk away like she did too.

Oh no he´s not naive and a little optimism looks good on him, he´s not an optimistic person at all so it´s nice to see some change on that front and imo I think he´s been refraining from his own bad behavoir since he lost his powers after HoM, he´s pretty much living the human and mutant world as a human and a mutant so it´s interesting how that shifted his pov on things , because before I would not have believed him to mak an alliance with SHIELD to get information about the sentinels and yet he did, I like how he seems to be keeping both his human and mutant persona and even his clothes of the gala reflect this, it´s a nice nod.

I don’t know… I think he’s just hiding (not that well), that’s he’s getting more and more supremacist as the time passes. But you’re more of a fan than I am, so I’ll keep your point of view in mind next time I read his saying something that gives me that impression. :)

[Rang10]

Yes Logan definitely can have his own relationships outside of Jean and Scott but then again he´s living with them and I would like to know how did that happen because yes this makes Jean look like she´s the only one with an open relationship and Scott is just dealing with it and I don´t think it looks good on any of them tbh.
.

Of course Logan can have his relationships, since there isn't anything committed to a poly relationship going on. It is all bad writing, even because they completely excluded his true family so he could live with the summers. Logan didn't cared about laura going to a fault, didn't cared about Gaby, was cold to Mariko. The same for Jean, the writers turned this characters into psychopaths. They resemble very little what they were
for making their crap fanfic come true*
*they didn't even committed to do it anyway, as nothing is shown


People all jump to hate on Aaron because of his fic with Phoenix but are ready to let Hickman/Percy a pass on their fics? No way

[Rebel Heart]

Whoa! A gorgeous variant cover for the upcoming X-Men #1 by Doaly
7D5D6828-0908-410F-A707-3C07CD85A0CD.jpg

[Grinning Soul]

Whoa! A gorgeous variant cover for the upcoming X-Men #1 by Doaly

Gorgeous indeed! Thanks for sharing.

Shame the whole team isn't there, though.

[Conor]

Whoa! A gorgeous variant cover for the upcoming X-Men #1 by Doaly
7D5D6828-0908-410F-A707-3C07CD85A0CD.jpg

Epic cover. Love seeing Jean front and centre again like she was on Asrar’s variant.

[Lucyinthesky]

It it was up to me, theyÂ’d spend the whole time in NY, better yet if the place wasnÂ’t a Krakoa habitat. But when you consider the state of mind of his brothers and the fact thereÂ’s a cerebro back-up there, I think theyÂ’d probably be going back and forth. And, you know, with those gates available, there would be no reason not to do it anyway.

Yes the gates are very useful so I can see them being away from Krakoa more often.

The question is: how much is this happiness forced on them? We just donÂ’t know. But I think itÂ’s looking more and more like a symbiosis, which is an idea that I should also try not to think about it.

I don´t think everybody is excesively happy Vulcan has PTSD from almost dying, Rahne is deppressed because she misses her Son, etc I think Krakoa mostly has tried to make them confortable but their state of mind varias from person to person depending of where their mind is at the moment. I could see the angle of them all being under a light touch of mind control but so far everybody is still dealing with their baggage, they are just doing it in a more confortable way.

IÂ’m not a huge fan, but I like her too. And thatÂ’s the only reason why I want her as far away from the X-Office as possible. I donÂ’t see anything good for Wanda coming from the mutant corner of the MU at this moment.

Yes for the moment is best for her to have her own stories just wish avengers started using her more.

Personally, the open marriage, regardless of who is the lover of who is my main issue here.

Agreed

ItÂ’s the reaction of other fans that worry me and itÂ’s what I was saying it before: the only one showing anything is Percy, if the x-office decides to walk back on it, Jean would be the one to blame for the end of the marriage or whatever, soÂ…

I just donÂ’t want even more hate on her.

Yes I can see how this could be used as a point agaisnt her and her relationship with Cyclops in the future so it would be best if they are not really going to explore it for the writers to just explain it clearly or scratch that subplot but I guess Percy likes it too much to let go of it. This is why I think this is more about them not agreeging on which ship to go for so they are showing both but it doesn´t make a real amount of sense for the characters.

IÂ’m all for cutting all ties from Krakoa. That place creeps me out and I want my darlings away from it. But yeahÂ… they probably wouldnÂ’t want that. At least for now.

Yes the story certainly is going to a dark place and even as we begin to see the Reign of X we are strating to see the fall of X, I am just going along for the ride and hope they end on a better place than the one they started.

Even if he wasnÂ’t, he knows enough people who are friends/respect him and who would certainly join if he asked. But thinking about his thinking of the possibility that he could have ended up with a team that would be a total mess isÂ… interesting.If he was really relaxed about thatÂ… well, IÂ’d say those Krakoan vapours do seem to calm his nerves down, donÂ’t they? :P

IÂ’m telling you: this place is weird.

It depends imo if he sees the team as more publicity oriented or a team with a defined mission, so far their intention with the election was to show Krakoa citizens they could be part of the process and that´s done so we will see what else he has in mind.

About Krakoa well, it´s supposed to be weird from the beggining it had secrets and conspirations, I don´t think it will end well for everybody, least of all Charles, Moira and Magneto who are very much in middle of everything but I hope after everything is said and done most if not all of the X-men end on a better place.

IÂ’ve been really wondering about it since I read the last issue of Way of X. If itÂ’s not something that everyone has, why would Kurt have it? Do you get one when youÂ’re resurrected and their minds are backed-up? Do you get one when you join the Quiet Council? What would be the common denominator, you know? And how does it possibly affect our girl?

Onslaught was awaken by Orchis to bring down Krakoa from the inside by accelerating their worse atributes bringing their darker thoughts to the surface but it´s down in a very slow and tepid manner so only David and Kurt have noticed it and are tryng to put a stop to it. So imo at this point everybody has a personal bug but it´s most probably born from themselves and Onslaught only helps it to grow, that´s my theory.

Well, I think it depends a bit on how they leave, right? After all, Jean left. I think anyone could walk away like she did too.

Jean left the QC but she´s didn´t say anything about leaving Krakoa for good so imo most see her and Scott as just changing residence for work not leaving because they don´t agree with Krakoa´s goverment.

I donÂ’t knowÂ… I think heÂ’s just hiding (not that well), thatÂ’s heÂ’s getting more and more supremacist as the time passes. But youÂ’re more of a fan than I am, so IÂ’ll keep your point of view in mind next time I read his saying something that gives me that impression.

Well it depends really on the writer, because all of them have different ideas and takes of him but so far during this run I have seen him being very pompus with the God talk and Raven´s whole treatment, out of nowhere but also very empathic with the help to the refugees and his defense of the "Kill no man" rule to Cortez and Pyro so that´s why I think he´s mostly getting into a middle ground between his human and mutant persona, he has a human history that he can´t walk away from, his family, his wife, his first child, his friends on Israel and a mutant story his friendship with Charles, Ororo, Kitty, Lorna, the acolytes, exodus, etc his bad past with Cape Citadel, Genosha, Asteroid M, Avalon so it´s really am mixed situation with him in which the writer decides which side to show more. I personally prefer him as a separate agent who gets how both worlds are and his main mission is to protect mutants but that can lead him to lighter or darker places depending of the situation.

[From The Shadows]

Jean and Lorna were for a while the only two women in the team, they inevitably became close friends (even best friends)
Then Lorna was thrown into limbo and the folks at Marvel started to despise her more and more from there I guess (and her surprisingly sexist treatment by Claremont clearly didn't help)
Jean and Lorna's friendship suffered quite a bit and they were only allowed brief interactions here and there
I'm really really glad they're in the same book again

The character of Polaris has suffered abuse at the hands of a LOT of super-villains over the decades. Mesmero was the first to mind-control her. How long was she possessed by Malice? Years? There was the mind control by “Erik the Red,” and the Shadow King, too. Her sister Zaladane was a total monster to her, although accidentally and incidentally helped free Polaris of Malice. Then there was the breakup with Havok followed by her witnessing and surviving the Genoshan massacre. Then that was followed up by Havok literally leaving her at the altar. She got turned into one of Apocalypse’s Four Horsemen, again being mind controlled. She learned along the way that she and her powers were responsible for killing her adoptive parents. (No wonder her sister hates her guts!) Then, there’s the continual manipulation by her real father, Magneto. Daddy issues doesn’t even begin to cover it! Her own father sent a robot of himself to influence and tell Lorna what to do! That was part of our sad introduction to her. Still, to say that girl has been through some sh!t is an understatement. Can you imagine the PTSD this gal suffers from? I’m surprised she’s not huddled in a corner all day, shaking and crying uncontrollably. I know I would be.

Yes, the legendary bad treatment of Lorna. So many missed opportunities. Even during the DPS that little scene you could tell they were long time friends. I hear that was Bynes doing who did not want to leave out Lorna when CC's preference for Storm and Jean was showing. I do still like that friendship by the way though. I am looking forward to new and undiscovered territory. Or territory that's been put on hold but has more potential to be expanded.

[From The Shadows]

Dark Pheonix badassery.

[Grinning Soul]

Yes the gates are very useful so I can see them being away from Krakoa more often.

And, hopefully, going on a date to a place that isn’t the Green Lagoon! :D

I don´t think everybody is excesively happy Vulcan has PTSD from almost dying, Rahne is deppressed because she misses her Son, etc I think Krakoa mostly has tried to make them confortable but their state of mind varias from person to person depending of where their mind is at the moment. I could see the angle of them all being under a light touch of mind control but so far everybody is still dealing with their baggage, they are just doing it in a more confortable way.

Yes, their minds are not being re-written. I’d say it’s more of drainage of their discernment/critical thinking, inhibitions and more complex emotions…

When you take critical thinking alone out of the way it’s so much easier to be happy. Why do you think I try so hard to stop thinking when I’m reading comic books? :P

Yes for the moment is best for her to have her own stories just wish avengers started using her more.

Yeah. Give the girl a break.

Yes I can see how this could be used as a point agaisnt her and her relationship with Cyclops in the future so it would be best if they are not really going to explore it for the writers to just explain it clearly or scratch that subplot but I guess Percy likes it too much to let go of it. This is why I think this is more about them not agreeging on which ship to go for so they are showing both but it doesn´t make a real amount of sense for the characters.

I think they decided to back away from it. It wouldn’t surprise me if they were all: “What? We? Polyamory? No! Really? You read that way? Fans, really… Tsk! Who can predict them?”

Yes the story certainly is going to a dark place and even as we begin to see the Reign of X we are strating to see the fall of X, I am just going along for the ride and hope they end on a better place than the one they started.

I’m eagerly waiting for the end, popcorn ready! My only hope is that everything is retconned through Moira’s last life and no character will have to carry the blame.

I’ll miss some aspects of the world-building, though, I won’t lie.

It depends imo if he sees the team as more publicity oriented or a team with a defined mission, so far their intention with the election was to show Krakoa citizens they could be part of the process and that´s done so we will see what else he has in mind.

We’re talking about Scott. He’d worry about getting the best possible team even if it was publicity oriented. But we know it’s more than that…

Really, I’m having trouble imagining the poor man having to wait for the result of the elections. And if he was cool about it… give me some of that Krakoan tea, please! :D

About Krakoa well, it´s supposed to be weird from the beggining it had secrets and conspirations, I don´t think it will end well for everybody, least of all Charles, Moira and Magneto who are very much in middle of everything but I hope after everything is said and done most if not all of the X-men end on a better place.

Yeah. And, then, can we maybe please move on from this corner of, endangered species/mutantXhuman conflict? I mean, the latter is part of the mythos, sure, but it’s been too central for far too long.

Onslaught was awaken by Orchis to bring down Krakoa from the inside by accelerating their worse atributes bringing their darker thoughts to the surface but it´s down in a very slow and tepid manner so only David and Kurt have noticed it and are tryng to put a stop to it. So imo at this point everybody has a personal bug but it´s most probably born from themselves and Onslaught only helps it to grow, that´s my theory.

It’s possible. That bug was so intriguing! I hope they don’t forget about it.

Jean left the QC but she´s didn´t say anything about leaving Krakoa for good so imo most see her and Scott as just changing residence for work not leaving because they don´t agree with Krakoa´s goverment.

That’s what I meant: anyone could, in theory, leave the QC without creating a big schism. It really depend on how and why they leave. :)

Well it depends really on the writer, because all of them have different ideas and takes of him but so far during this run I have seen him being very pompus with the God talk and Raven´s whole treatment, out of nowhere but also very empathic with the help to the refugees and his defense of the "Kill no man" rule to Cortez and Pyro so that´s why I think he´s mostly getting into a middle ground between his human and mutant persona, he has a human history that he can´t walk away from, his family, his wife, his first child, his friends on Israel and a mutant story his friendship with Charles, Ororo, Kitty, Lorna, the acolytes, exodus, etc his bad past with Cape Citadel, Genosha, Asteroid M, Avalon so it´s really am mixed situation with him in which the writer decides which side to show more. I personally prefer him as a separate agent who gets how both worlds are and his main mission is to protect mutants but that can lead him to lighter or darker places depending of the situation.

Yeah, I’m not saying he’s full on terrorist mode. But I think it might be brewing inside, which would make sense in a way. The more successful Krakoa is, the more likely he’d feel this way, I think. Especially because the deeper you are into something, the higher the chances you lose perspective of the bigger picture. But we’ll have to see where this is going. :)

[From The Shadows]

Jean should straight up be dating Warren. It would be interesting as she has some sort of close friendship with Cyclops now.

[Brian B]

Of course Logan can have his relationships, since there isn't anything committed to a poly relationship going on. It is all bad writing, even because they completely excluded his true family so he could live with the summers. Logan didn't cared about laura going to a fault, didn't cared about Gaby, was cold to Mariko. The same for Jean, the writers turned this characters into psychopaths. They resemble very little what they were
for making their crap fanfic come true*
*they didn't even committed to do it anyway, as nothing is shown


People all jump to hate on Aaron because of his fic with Phoenix but are ready to let Hickman/Percy a pass on their fics? No way

Isn’t it actually more in character for Wolverine to be a psychopath?

[Grinning Soul]

Jean should straight up be dating Warren. It would be interesting as she has some sort of close friendship with Cyclops now.

I love Jean and Scott together, but Warren is my favourite for her if they ever decide to break their marriage apart. :)

[Rang10]

Isn’t it actually more in character for Wolverine to be a psychopath?

No, he isnt like that

[Wiccan]

Hmm...

[Celestialbodies]

Jean’s cameo in Marauders was cool today. The psychic butterflies compliments of Jean and the Cuckoos were a nice touch. The only thing I found jarring was Emma referring to Jean as Marvel Girl, it just feels so wrong!

She’s obviously going to have a bigger, more important role in Planet Sized, if the terraforming suggestions prove correct. I was just happy to see her play a role in a book that she’s barely ever been in before. I didn’t expect her to be in any of this week’s issues, I don’t see the telepathic concert as a “power feat” either, I just think it was a nice touch and was a way of showing the crowd via Rhapsody, Jean and the Cuckoos the kind of wonders mutants, not humans, are capable of.

I didn't understand the purpose of that display, and I immediately thought wouldn't Betsy and Kwannon been much better served for that demonstration thematically especially given their recent development and the butterflies? Oh, well!

I didnt care for it and thought it was a waste of her talent. She's about to be the leader of the X-men yet she's helping support the Cuckoos transmit a telepathic concert? I thought it was beneath her to even be "working" and it was something so frivolous

Same! Where's the uniqueness or talent, outside of think Bets and Kwannon were more suited I didn't get why that required Jean and the Cuckoos.

At this point y'all are just whining for the sake of it. Marauders is not her book. She's neither a regular nor a recurring character. She has literally nothing to do with it. It's not even a special guest star thing, just a cameo because of a crossover that involves everyone. Why would you expect her to have a big role in it? Especially when this isn't even a major issue but just a little introduction.

Come on guys this is not a fair assessment, X-force isn't Emma's book yet she was used much better than Jean in Marauders.

Um but the writer is Duggan

EXACTLY, like this is the person who is going to be responsible for our girl's future direction and what about her appearance today inspires a good voice for her? Personally, unimpressed!

For what it's worth, Duggan said the little moment Donny Cates gave Jean in his Venom story doesn't have **** on Planet Size. That said, he was likely talking about the issue as a whole and not something Jean does.

I'm not gonna say I'm going to be disappointed but I'm not expecting much from his Jean, more of a team display.

I’m not saying Jean is weak, I’m just saying I’m not really seeing the omega tp, it appear at least to me as high-end alpha, just think of Storm and Magneto when they go full omega, you can really tell they are operating on whole different level but if you take away the times she was hosting the phoenix and teen jean creativity we are left with very little, x-men red seemed like the beginning of a new era but once it was done it’s all been full reverse gear.

Several of her Omega peers have unassisted displays, while Jean consistently needs support. NO ONE has been suggesting that Jean should be the be all end all of the X-men. But it baffles me how ill-equipped she is so often, more importantly how many people jump to defend it. If Jean were written with even half the presence that Teen Jean had I feel no one would be speaking on her continuous bland narratives.

Jean Grey, the Phone-ix, needs extra batteries for those really long distance calls.

LOL, and hear I thought her display from HOX/POX was so "impressive" that us Jean fans should be content with everything she does for the next decade!

What some people want is Jean to take control of the X-Men and Avengers kick out Magneto and Xavier then telepathically crack Krakoa in half and send it hurling to the sun all while chanting "The Phoenix was holding me back!"

So in that sense they'll definitely be disappointed in the book.

Lol, yeah that's what we want...


I've said it once and I'll say it again I do not think Duggan will be necessarily "bad" for Jean, personally I just don't think he's what she needs right now. I feel like he might be more inspired by other members of his cast namely Rogue. Sure, Jean will be present and involved but I definitely think at this moment given the previous 2 years. She needs a strong writer who wants to delve into her personality, ala Morrison in NXM, or Taylor in Red, whereas I feel like Duggan's Jean will be more of the same at minimum and 90's Jean at worst. Again present for the story, but rarely is she pushing the narrative or is the story frame from her perspective at some point.


Though, I look forward to being proven wrong, maybe Duggan will surprise us....