Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[Rebel Heart]

You know... I haven’t really participated in the Marvel Girl outfit discussions in this forum but that entire conversation that was had today in the Aipt article with JDW was, with all due respect bull$hit. Like... I get the significance of that outfit. I mean we all do. They’re making it seem as if they’re being so revolutionary with having her running around with it. It’s honestly lazy and silly. If they really wanted to they could have simply modernized it in such a way where they can still play homage to it and make it practical for a grown and established woman, who has been in thousands upon thousands of battles, to wear. Are these writers really going to try and make a case that a superhero like Jean Grey is willing to choose a mini dress over a proper armored uniform?!?! For anyone to think that putting a superhero that isn’t even invulnerable to physical damage to fight giant robots, aliens and other super beings in a miniskirt...is just so freaking STUPID. You don’t see any of the male counterparts running around and battling in shorts. It’s really disappointing.

[loke13]

I don't mind the outfit but I want to see Jean in something new we're about to end the first Act of Hickman's story so hopefully she gets a costume revamp.

[Devaishwarya]

Iceman battles in speedos...but then he's an Omega. So is Jean.
It's not as though "weaker" characters haven't fought battles wearing far less...and kicked ass and survived. This. Is. Comics.

[WallStreeter]

Iceman battles in speedos...but then he's an Omega. So is Jean.
It's not as though "weaker" characters haven't fought battles wearing far less...and kicked ass and survived. This. Is. Comics.

She can both physically defend and assault with her telekinesis. Obviously if the dress is here to stay so long she isn’t Phoenix fine.

As long as they do a good job writing her as Marcel Girl fune. She had a few moments in X-Force. If she is consistently written like that I’d love it.

[Devaishwarya]

Exactatiously.
HiX-Man's rationale (really, it's Jean's rationale) for both the dress and the name is sound. Some may not like it or agree with it but we are not Jean, living in her shoes, so...either let it go or continue to show up every month to repeat how much you hate the dress to anyone who would listen.
Ultimately, It really doesn't matter what she's wearing or specifically, it doesn't matter if we like what she's wearing or not...once she's written well and illustrated beauty-fully...which her fan-base also seem to have a major issue with...not me though, I'm happy with the Jean I've been reading since HoX, So I'm excited for this new chapter in her life.

[Rang10]

Iceman battles in speedos...but then he's an Omega. So is Jean.
It's not as though "weaker" characters haven't fought battles wearing far less...and kicked ass and survived. This. Is. Comics.

Iceman uses his iceform as costume. it is very different from Jean using a housewife Dress

[OmegaStorm87]

Exactatiously.
HiX-Man's rationale (really, it's Jean's rationale) for both the dress and the name is sound. Some may not like it or agree with it but we are not Jean, living in her shoes, so...either let it go or continue to show up every month to repeat how much you hate the dress to anyone who would listen.
Ultimately, It really doesn't matter what she's wearing or specifically, it doesn't matter if we like what she's wearing or not...once she's written well and illustrated beauty-fully...which her fan-base also seem to have a major issue with...not me though, I'm happy with the Jean I've been reading since HoX, So I'm excited for this new chapter in her life.

It's literally just the same 2-3 posters being obsessively negative/repeating the exact same post day in and day out. They're not interested in logical/rational discourse based in reality, they're here to be negative because it's cathartic for them. Whatever points you try to make that goes against their negative agenda will be ignored and the goal posts will be shifted.

It's why character appreciation threads in general are awful. Go into any of the popular ones here and they're all full of people griping that they aren't being specifically catered too.

[OmegaStorm87]

Iceman uses his iceform as costume. it is very different from Jean using a housewife Dress

Namor literally walks around in a speedo.

[Harpsikord]

Namor literally walks around in a speedo.

Up until 2013 Storm exclusively wore swimsuits and sexy leather. Psylocke had since the 90s. Emma STILL wears lingerie.

[Rang10]

Namor literally walks around in a speedo.

No more. he walks with pants for some time and he is a awimmer.

Now if people will catch all the examples of skimpy outfits, I really don't care this is about what Jean wears not other characters

[Spiderfan001]

You know... I haven’t really participated in the Marvel Girl outfit discussions in this forum but that entire conversation that was had today in the Aipt article with JDW was, with all due respect bull$hit. Like... I get the significance of that outfit. I mean we all do. They’re making it seem as if they’re being so revolutionary with having her running around with it. It’s honestly lazy and silly. If they really wanted to they could have simply modernized it in such a way where they can still play homage to it and make it practical for a grown and established woman, who has been in thousands upon thousands of battles, to wear. Are these writers really going to try and make a case that a superhero like Jean Grey is willing to choose a mini dress over a proper armored uniform?!?! For anyone to think that putting a superhero that isn’t even invulnerable to physical damage to fight giant robots, aliens and other super beings in a miniskirt...is just so freaking STUPID. You don’t see any of the male counterparts running around and battling in shorts. It’s really disappointing.

Jean skillset makes it so that she can wear practically anything.She uses telepathy and TK.Not much physical prowess required.
Also Iceman,Namor and many other wear little to nothing.It's according to their powers.
I think the more important question is does it matter though?
I'm not being sarcastic or anything.
If jean were to wear a bodysuit like scott and was called marvel woman would that change anything.
I would much rather she have a better story like being the leader instead of having scott do it for the 100th time.
It makes sense cause of everything that happened before people are or should not be as trusting of scott.He should be the team tactician whereas jean can lead the team.
She has done well a couple of times in the past.

[Force de Phenix]

Exactly. At that point, she had never had any other costume that was just hers (the first O5 uniform was a group thing), so it made sense she wanted to die as Jean Grey. But she didn't "reject" the Phoenix...

But now? They did read X-Men: Red, right? [When she wore a new uniform after she *actually*, *unequivocally* rejected the Phoenix Force]

Also... Marvel Woman is bad? But Invisible Woman isn't?

And that's the reason Jean has to be called "girl"?

The name sounded good in Mutant X, although it was kinda Jean.

Her gala outfit would have made a great costume

I agree. I made some modifications. The ballerina shoes are nice for the gala. I can see them as boots. I've always loved her Jim Lee uniform, and I like how the gala outfit incorporated some shoulder pads without overdoing it. In X-Men Red she was the only one with huge shoulder pads for some reason. She could have a force field up to protect her if she wants.

[Spiderfan001]

No more. he walks with pants for some time and he is a awimmer.

Now if people will catch all the examples of skimpy outfits, I really don't care this is about what Jean wears not other characters

The argument was that she can't fight crime in her outfit.People are just pointing out not only can she and does many others do the same.
There are reasons to dislike said outfit but not good for battle isn't a very good one.

[Rang10]

The argument was that she can't fight crime in her outfit.People are just pointing out not only can she and does many others do the same.
There are reasons to dislike said outfit but not good for battle isn't a very good one.

Of course she can fight crime but it won't be believable in any other way. It ldoesn't look like what someone would use. So the critic is right
For example Namor is a swimmer, swimmers usually use lycra pants or just speedos. Namor costume fits with what he is.

It nets some blue On the knees or on the boots

It really is a updated version of Lee costume

[Spiderfan001]

I don't know. I get what you mean when it comes to dictating a women what to wear. But let's face it, there is an EXTREMELY narrow gender-conforming idea of femininity in place when it comes to the X-books (masculinity as well of course). I'm just bored by flowy long-haired skinny women in sexy dresses. That's only one narrow aspect of femininity but it is the one that is still central in the x-books. What about bringing some female masculinity to the mix? Lorna, Jean, Rogue,...aesthetically speaking, they are all the exactly same barbie doll variation of cis-gendered femininity. I'm not dictating the hair style of a character but I would like to see some variation when it comes to the depiction of femininities in the x-books.

I cannot not see the mini dress from the 60s as a symbol for the male gaze of its writers.

I got the Marvel Girl action figure. it is actually hilarious that because of her minidress and heels, she is incapable to move or even stand. She is so ridiculously immobilized. lol That's not sexism to create an action figure that basically can only stand and look pretty in a dress?

And most male heroes have similar haircuts with muscular builds in costumes that highlight their figure.
This isn't just a female or male problem.All characters have this similarity.

I thought rogue was always a bit buff but I see your point.

You are saying a mini-dress is a problem of male gaze.So can no-one wear a skirt Lol.
Also Namor roams around in a speedo.I haven't ever heard a single complaint.Even though most ladies objectify him and no one has done that to Jean yet.

Also bad action figure design has nothing to do with this.