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  1. #4276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Jean was not too weak to be on X-Force. That had nothing to do with her leaving. Her decision to quit was a strong willed made one
    I don't think so. Like at all. She's shirking responsibility and walking away from something because it's hard to handle. Don't like that characterization one bit and it is weak on top of just being lame and no fun.

  2. #4277
    Astonishing Member Soulsword323's Avatar
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    When did Jean say it was too hard to handle? She left because she didn't want to compromise her morals, which I think fits the character.

  3. #4278
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty&Piotr<3 View Post
    I don't think so. Like at all. She's shirking responsibility and walking away from something because it's hard to handle. Don't like that characterization one bit and it is weak on top of just being lame and no fun.
    She didnt walk away bc it was hard to handle. She did it bc she had moral objections to Beast's tactics and the f--ed up things he was doing. Supporting him doesnt make her strong just as opposing him doesnt make her weak. She'd be weak if she just went with the flow despite her opposition. No, she was firm and stood her ground and put her money where her mouth was. She's not really needed in X-Force anyway; its not like she left and everything fell apart bc she shirked off responsibility. Her quitting X-Force was arguably her best moment from last year. It at the very least ranks up there

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulsword323 View Post
    When did Jean say it was too hard to handle? She left because she didn't want to compromise her morals, which I think fits the character.
    Exactly. It would be out of character for her to stay especially after she acknowledged the conflict it posed on her ideals. Jean is not a dark or antihero character. She has a very clear moral alignment and X-Force may have been fun in the beginning but long term it was never gonna be a good fit for her

  4. #4279
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    She didnt walk away bc it was hard to handle. She did it bc she had moral objections to Beast's tactics and the f--ed up things he was doing. Supporting him doesnt make her strong just as opposing him doesnt make her weak. She'd be weak if she just went with the flow despite her opposition. No, she was firm and stood her ground and put her money where her mouth was. She's not really needed in X-Force anyway; its not like she left and everything fell apart bc she shirked off responsibility. Her quitting X-Force was arguably her best moment from last year. It at the very least ranks up there
    That she KNOWS what's going on, thinks it's sooo bad, and does nothing about it is worse.

    But maybe she is not done dealing with X-Force. It's possible she might still be involved in that story and in X-Men as well.

  5. #4280
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty&Piotr<3 View Post
    That she KNOWS what's going on, thinks it's sooo bad, and does nothing about it is worse.

    But maybe she is not done dealing with X-Force. It's possible she might still be involved in that story and in X-Men as well.
    She sees the value in X-Force. She recognizes it as a necesary evil. She just doesnt agree with Beast's tactics. What is she supposed to do especially when Xavier cosigns and gives Beast approval to do as he pleases? She isnt doing nothing. She is starting the X-men up as a heroic protection force for Krakoa's citizens. Her mission statement and approach is the antithesis of what Beast is doing with his shady, underhanded and damaging ways

  6. #4281
    Astonishing Member Grey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty&Piotr<3 View Post
    I don't think so. Like at all. She's shirking responsibility and walking away from something because it's hard to handle. Don't like that characterization one bit and it is weak on top of just being lame and no fun.
    I don’t know that I’d use these exact words, but as an outsider looking in I did kinda get that feeling too.

    Same with leaving the quiet council to become an xmen again. Don’t get me wrong, as a reader I want to see her in supergroups, not government boring stuff.

    But it’s just like…as a character I don’t get her headspace since Hickman started. She wanted to see a Mutant nation. She wanted to be on xforce to keep thing in check and provide some balance . Now she’s doing neither.


    I’m know it’s “because the writing says so.” But it just feels strange.

    Personally I’d rather see Jean in more areas she’s less familiar with. Xforce was one of those areas. Seeing characters in uncomfortable situations is interesting to me. I wanna see my favorite characters struggling with ethics and choices I don’t think it means they need to go darker or become someone else.z but being the “good” side of the moral balance of xforce should (and did) take a mental toll. It would be fun to see more of that and to see her confront it.
    Last edited by Grey; 06-15-2021 at 01:08 PM.
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  7. #4282
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grey View Post
    I don’t know that I’d use these words, bud as an outsider looking in I did kinda get that feeling too.

    Same with leaving the quiet council to become an xmen again. Don’t get me wrong, as a reader I want to see her in supergroups, not government boring stuff.

    But it’s just like…as a character I don’t get her headspace since Hickman started. She wanted to see a Mutant nation. She wanted to be on xfodfd to keep thing in check. Now doing either.
    I’m know it’s “because the writing says so.” But it felt strange.

    Personally I’d rather see Jean in more areas she’s less familiar with. Xrofdce was one of those. Seeing characters in uncomfortable situations is interesting to me.
    This board needs a "Like" function. Well said.

  8. #4283
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    Are we going to ignore the fact that they actually had Cyclops do the dishes on panel?

    Also Jean isn't the psychic that makes questionable moral choices, her entire "thing" is that she's the good girl. She's not Emma.
    Last edited by OmegaStorm87; 06-15-2021 at 01:01 PM.

  9. #4284
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    Quote Originally Posted by OmegaStorm87 View Post
    Are we going to ignore the fact that they actually had Cyclops do the dishes on panel?

    Also Jean isn't the psychic that makes questionable moral choices, her entire "thing" is that she's the good girl. She's not Emma.
    He was allowed to talk to his father, the dishes were not the point. The whole point of super heroes comics is seeing the good guys dealing with difficult situations, “she’s not emma” means nothing in fact it is exactly the reason why she’s interesting to me.
    Ommadon: “By summoning all the dark powers I will infest the spirit of man So that he uses his science and logic to destroy himself. Greed and avarice shall prevail, and those who do not hear my words shall pay the price. I'll teach man to use his machines, I'll show him what distorted science can give birth to. I'll teach him to fly like a fairy, and I'll give him the ultimate answer to all his science can ask. And the world will be free for my magic again.”

  10. #4285
    Astonishing Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loke13 View Post
    Yikes the accuracy.

    It does get tiring to be honest.

    I've got a question for the (more critical) fans instead of saying what you don't like how about saying what you do like about Jean in this era? And that goes for everybody!

    Personally I love the fact that Jean and Scott are back together. That Jean is a confirmed Omega tp, I love how passionate but authoritative she's been. The scene where she protects Scott and the rest of the team with her TK bubble when their ship explodes and when she atomized the teraflonics was a great showing of her TK power. Just to name a few things I've liked so far.
    I liked that Jean was confirmed as Omega level telepath.

    I liked that Jean lived her family life for a bit (even though we didn't get to see much of it, I'm assuming it was the case off-panel) because if you consider those characters aren't allowed to get older and she stayed dead for about 4-5 in-story years (counting both deaths), she's actually spent more time being a mother than a super hero. And when she was sent back to the present, she wanted to do it again. So I'd say it's important to her. Unfortunately, the story of The Twelve happened and she didn't get to have that dream come true... So thinking she got to have a measure of it again makes me glad.

    As you know, I'm a huge fan of Jean and Scott together, so I'm happy they're still a couple, even if it's not the way I'd prefer to see them together.

    And I'm happy she's been allowed to reform the X-Men, with Scott. Depending on how you see it, they're both the first X-Men so it feels right that they are the ones who took the initiative.

    I'm sorry, Ioke13, I really wish I had more stuff to be positive about, but that's really it. I like heroic, character driven stories and we didn't get much of it... For most characters, really. It's not just a problem for Jean.

    I'm really hoping the new X-Men book will change that. I want to be excited about the stories she's in.

  11. #4286
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    I liked that Jean was confirmed as Omega level telepath.

    I liked that Jean lived her family life for a bit (even though we didn't get to see much of it, I'm assuming it was the case off-panel) because if you consider those characters aren't allowed to get older and she stayed dead for about 4-5 in-story years (counting both deaths), she's actually spent more time being a mother than a super hero. And when she was sent back to the present, she wanted to do it again. So I'd say it's important to her. Unfortunately, the story of The Twelve happened and she didn't get to have that dream come true... So thinking she got to have a measure of it again makes me glad.

    As you know, I'm a huge fan of Jean and Scott together, so I'm happy they're still a couple, even if it's not the way I'd prefer to see them together.

    And I'm happy she's been allowed to reform the X-Men, with Scott. Depending on how you see it, they're both the first X-Men so it feels right that they are the ones who took the initiative.

    I'm sorry, Ioke13, I really wish I had more stuff to be positive about, but that's really it. I like heroic, character driven stories and we didn't get much of it... For most characters, really. It's not just a problem for Jean.

    I'm really hoping the new X-Men book will change that. I want to be excited about the stories she's in.
    I’m happy she’s one of the privileged few to be an official omega mutant. Confirms, printed, exclusive, no arguing.

    I liked her gala costume.

    I hasn’t even reading much so that’s all I got .) but it’s something
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  12. #4287
    Astonishing Member Grey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OmegaStorm87 View Post
    Are we going to ignore the fact that they actually had Cyclops do the dishes on panel?

    Also Jean isn't the psychic that makes questionable moral choices, her entire "thing" is that she's the good girl. She's not Emma.
    Actually teen Jean did make a lot of questionable choices. She matured as the series went on and became more like her “adult self”, but she still continued to approach things in a fresh new way that the “previous” adult Jean didn’t always.

    Given that adult Jean IS teen Jean / unlocked her memories / whatever you wanna call it, this would be a good opportunity to see a little of that. In fact, in my head canon, if Jean is in a poly amorous relationship, a lot of it has to do with the unlocking of teen jeans memories. Not because she dated them both as a teenager, but because teen Jean finally “got it”.

    She knew that being a devoted wife and a model member of the xmen left her single, dead, possessed, whatever. Why not try a new approach? So yes that’s my head canon
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  13. #4288
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daedra View Post
    He was allowed to talk to his father, the dishes were not the point. The whole point of super heroes comics is seeing the good guys dealing with difficult situations, “she’s not emma” means nothing in fact it is exactly the reason why she’s interesting to me.
    Don't you see? Because she is generally nice, the writers just shouldn't allow her any moral quandaries. She should just be able to pretend they aren't there like a real hero lolololol

  14. #4289
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daedra View Post
    He was allowed to talk to his father, the dishes were not the point. The whole point of super heroes comics is seeing the good guys dealing with difficult situations, “she’s not emma” means nothing in fact it is exactly the reason why she’s interesting to me.
    She did deal with a difficult situation...by walking away from it. Jean probably shouldn't have been part of a wetworks team anyway where you are guaranteed to have shady stuff going on, unless you want to see her compromise her values.

  15. #4290
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    Quote Originally Posted by OmegaStorm87 View Post
    She did deal with a difficult situation...by walking away from it. Jean probably shouldn't have been part of a wetworks team anyway where you are guaranteed to have shady stuff going on, unless you want to see her compromise her values.
    That’s not dealing with the situation, Jean is the kind of woman that rights wrongs, running away is actually the immoral choice here.
    Ommadon: “By summoning all the dark powers I will infest the spirit of man So that he uses his science and logic to destroy himself. Greed and avarice shall prevail, and those who do not hear my words shall pay the price. I'll teach man to use his machines, I'll show him what distorted science can give birth to. I'll teach him to fly like a fairy, and I'll give him the ultimate answer to all his science can ask. And the world will be free for my magic again.”

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