Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[Lucyinthesky]

ThatÂ’s the thing: it was not. That was what the circumstances forced her to do at that moment.

Yes I understand she was forced to make that decision because the situation called for it but so was Scott, Utopia was an actual bunker and not something that was supposed to last and that´s why I think it´s hypocritical to judge one as bad and the other as good when they were doing the exact thing for the same good reason.

They didnÂ’t know that for sure, but letÂ’s say it was the case.
Anyway, mutants and humans are the *same* species. “Endangered species” is technically an erroneous way of referring to a species when there are nearly 8 billion specimen of the species around. You understand what that means? It means mutants wanted to be seen as a different species, when they're not. That's why the term is divisive by definition.

Yes this is why I hated when Morrison introduced the concept of a different species because they never were that, if they really were they could not be born from humans and they could not have human children like Mystique and Magneto clearly had so for me this was just a title for the comic, in practice what they wanted to stop was the complete erradication of the sub-humanity group of mutants because they could not be born from either human or mutant because of a magical curse. One of the things I liked was the fact Phoenix force had to re-start mutant births because it truly was neccesary a force like that to begin to deal with decimation in a way that didn´t recude the severity of the situation.

I also donÂ’t believe they are mutually exclusive. ThatÂ’s the whole point: IÂ’m saying that mutant nations will only be viable *after* peaceful co-existence is achieved so, by definition, they *have* to exist at the same time.
Charles dream was a dream of co-existence pure and simple.

The way he thought it could be achieved was through two actions:

1.Teaching mutants to control their powers so they wouldnÂ’t become a threat.
2.Having the mutants who would be inclined to work as team, like the Avengers, to do so to show humans their powers could benefit humanity and, hopefully, disperse the fear.

Now, we can argue it wasnÂ’t the best way to achieve it. We can also argue it never made much sense that humans accepted powered people like the Avengers and didnÂ’t accept powered people like the X-MenÂ… But thatÂ’s not the discussion here.

The point that IÂ’m trying to make is that just because the method to achieve co-existence was proven flawed, it doesnÂ’t mean the dream is flawed.

The dream is *still* the only solution. But they havenÂ’t tried new approaches to the dream in a very long while

I agree the dream isn´t flawed but it´s still a dream, the execution is the discussion and this is why I don´t see a mutant nation with bad eyes, because it´s exactly what could help in the long run, not even in the real world there has come a time of complete co-existence between all people even when I am sure that has been the dream of many people, so I understand the wish to approach this from different sides and the traditional, school of the X-men way isn´t neccesarily the only correct one. That´s my point.

I think the main problem with Krakoa is the fact they really believe mutants are very different than humans. While this might prove to be true in the future, the current adults who live in Krakoa were raised in human societies. You canÂ’t just expect them to turn a switch and become different. ThatÂ’s at the core of the many societal issues weÂ’re seeing in Way of X.

I believe they will have to involve humanity one way or the other, this is why I liked Fallen Angels, the writer detected early the internal problem of Krakoa being completely cut off the world in which it lived and how it would become neccesary for them to still involve themselves with the world, not because they wanted to make mutant lives better or to show mutant are not monster who need to do good deeds to be accepted but because it was the fair/just thing to do and they had the means to make it better. I wish the author had a chance to develop his idea but he did well enough developing Pyslocke with this ideal.

So, hereÂ’s the actual dialogue.

- Steve: The landmass of Krakoa ballooned by 500 percent, with a second island and satellite heat signatures indicating there are millions more mutants living in the South Pacific. There's more than just panic and alarm bells in the air. There are incidents everywhere. The entire planet went to DEFCON one.
- Scott: Yeah... I know what it must look like.
- Steve: I won't ask how it happened but I need to know if it's permanent.
- Scott: Ask me again in a few days. You're coming to the gala, right?
- Steve: I wasn't before but I am now.

So, I understand this as Scott really not knowing for sure what would be done about Arakko but intending to find out and talk about it to Steve at the gala.

But, then, at the gala, this is how the conversation goes, after the "fireworks":

- Scott: What did you think, Cap?
- Steve: Did you know about this when we met a few days ago?
- Scott: Well, not for certain but... I had an inkling.

So I guess all he knew is that there were plans to deal with the Arakko issue, and it would be implemented during the gala, but he didn't know what it was for sure even at the gala or he could have talked to Cap beforehand.

So, yeah, the QC kept it the whole terraforming and transferring the island to another planet from their Captain Commander. So that's my point: it's not a stretch to say the QC operated in a need-to-know basis.

I don´t really think they did given he didn´t act like being truly surprised, Scott lives with Jean, has a close relationship with Charles, Erik, Emma and Storm and will most probably deal with the logistical consequences of having to develop security for both Krakoa and now Mars, I truly can´t see this as them hidding this from him, he just hoped Steve would see this with good eyes.

Yeah, but itÂ’s not just a matter of the writer having the ability to do so. ItÂ’s also about the choice for the pacing/style of the narrative. WeÂ’ll have to see what direction he decides for the book.

Yes we will see

WeÂ’ll never really know. But Way of X #3 was released already and Kurt didnÂ’t say a thing about his voting when David criticised the endeavor... What can we do about it?

Nothing, I guess they will keep doing the Onslaught thing and David main complain wasn´t the act itself but that it left the rest of mutants feeling useless which is the main theme of Way of X one I believe will be solved after Onslaught revelation.

Yeah, I donÂ’t see them as a group being a problem right away. As individuals, I think some might still be a problem just cause they still have the same access to human cities they did before.In the long run, though, as a group? Oh, yeah, I see them being a problem. A bigger problem. But weÂ’ll have to wait and see.

They don´t really have acess to the cities, they will have to ask Storm permission to go to Krakoa and from there to earth,what they have is free movement around mars.

[Lucyinthesky]

Ooooh! Do share in a PM?

It´s kind of silly really and there are other fans who had the same theory so I will share this here: I believe Wanda or Magneto were in reality raven posing as them on that scene from SWORD, I would really hate it if this is true because I loved that scene but this looks exactly like the kind of thing Raven would do, she can´t attack and defeat Magneto psysically but she can attack his heart and he has so many weak spots there.

spoilers:

1.- Mystique frames Wanda: Like I could see her taking Wanda´s form to reconcile with him and then attack of kill him and frame Wanda, this way even if Magneto is ressurrected he would not have the memory of what happened but would find himself with a big part of mutants angry at Wanda and him taking a stand to defend her, this at the very least would make him lose his post as QC leader and also severe his ties with Charles if he decides, under Onslaught influence, Magneto can´t no longer be objective on Wanda or the ruling of the nation. Wanda and the Avengers get involved for the framing an a fight starts and it ends when they discover Magneto is alive and mutants can come back to life, isolating Krakoa more from the rest of the MU 2.- Mystique frames Magneto: Lest say it was truly Wanda who came back to talk to Magneto but she´s not talking with him but Raven, she kills Wanda using a electro magnetic attack, maybe from Forge and Magneto is blamed because you can´t kill humans, so he goes to trial but half of mutants don´t see this as a reason to send him the the hole and others agree they should send him there, Magneto says he´s innocent but doesn´t have a way to prove it. The Avengers come because they are sure Wanda was not supposed to be there at the hour, they discover Wanda is still alive and the dead Wanda is a clone Mystique put there to frame Magneto.

end of spoilers

Those are some of my thoughts on the matter, we could end with something more unexpected or what everyone seems to think happened but Leah likes to do some curve balls on her stories so lest see where we end with this.

Since you're a big fan of Mags, wasn't there something about his only wearing black when it came to vengeance? If there was, I wonder if it's relevant.

Well he used it last time because he wanted to avenge the mutants killed during the decimation era so the implication is that some injustice was done on Krakoa he wants to correct but given Wanda´s presence it could be him trying to get Krakoa to stop considering her enemy #1 or him investigating the mutant dead himself even if he´s framed, or him killing someone as revenge.

Also... what if he's being tried under the "Respect this Sacred Land" law? Maybe someone was murdered and as he carried his vengeance he did something that was deemed disrespectful?

I don´t think so marvel pretty much confirmed it´s about a murder and her X-factor stories almost always involve someone getting killed.

I wonder who would defend him... I'm not sure I want Jean involved in any of that. I'm still on the fence on this one. And I'm still not convinced it will actually provoke any schism in Krakoan society. But if it does and it means Jean gets to walk away from it, I'll be happy.

I don´t think Jean likes him much or enough to defend him from something like this but I could see Lorna,Storm, Kitty, Rogue, Charles giving him the benefit of doubt or even defend him if they understand the circunstances were complex.

[Grinning Soul]

I think the job of writers is to surprise us with their writting and when they do it well it can become a classic, when they don´t it becomes a hated run but there´s always some fans who liked it despite it´s flaws. I believe Marvel got some new fans thanks to the X-men and Marvel movies who are not used to the way comics opperate and this sometimes can surprise even the writers and editors.

I don’t think it’s always a matter of surprising. Some really good stories don’t have any surprising elements. But I get what you mean.

I’m not sure the fact that readers buy into everything they read has to do with being a new fan. I think it’s more about thinking about what they are reading, in other words, using some discernment and critical thinking. For instance, just because a character is saying something, it doesn’t mean they’re right, but you need to ask yourself if they could be wrong otherwise you just accept it as the truth.

Exactly it was, I was very happy because they got to talk about Anya, Magneto never talked about her to the twins or Lorna so he´s definitely oppening himself more than usual.

I wish we could have more moments like that with the other characters because I felt this is exactly what I have been missing from them, the interpersonal warm hearted friendships, romance and values between mission and mission.

Yes, I wish that too. I feel the exact same way.

She seems them both as earthers who have yet to learn to think bigger than their own planet it gives her a unique perspective but she also is used to make decisions that will affect others for their own good, she did this when Krakoa was being attacked by King in black, she was willing to rescue the five to ressurrect the rest if neccesary. She´s a secret agent that indeed wants to protect earth but under her own terms

I’ll admit: based on her other appearances in S.W.O.R.D., I had formed a different perspective of her than the one we saw on the last issue. It’ll be interested into seeing where she goes from here.

I see two problems with this because earth has never shown a unified response to this kind of things, even between the heros there had been secrets, civil wars and even under attack it usually takes them some time before acting as a unified front. This happened during Empyre and it was the reason why Brand got mad at them and left Alpha Fight.

Storm duties so far seem to be involved in stopping wars before they happen, like talking to the galactic empires before they decide invading earth seems like a good idea, of course this doesn´t cover the not-aligned galactic empires but in that case she has direct links to the X-men, Avengers, FF4 and Wakanda, etc to inform them before it hits, she usually doesn´t make such a big decision like declaring a war lightly and even when she does, she makes sure to inform every person involved, it´s part of the reason she makes sense as the leader of Arakko and I believe she was chosen for this same reason.

Earth doesn´t have a unified goverment and Storm doesnt have authority over earth in any real sense of the world, all of the other countries could develop a similar system for space like Wakanda has or Latveria used to have in the 90´s, I don´t really see this as a coup because Storm doesn´t have authority over the countries of the world in any way that matters, not even in a symbolic way, what she does have are links to the super-hero groups of the world as well as most of goverments agencies because Krakoa is still part of the UN so something as big as an intergalactic war would have to be informed and maybe it would not quite take them by surprise this time.

Lucy, all of this is about the practical implications. I’m talking about the conceptual implications.

Like I wrote in another thread:

Dictatorship is the form of government where a single person or a small group hold the power over a society without being limited by a constitution and without being challenged by democratic elections.
I don't know how one would argue that is not the case for the Quiet Council, the Great Ring of Arakko or the Regent of Sol...

A kind and righteous dictator is still a dictator.

So, by definition, unless the inhabitants of the Solar System are allowed to vote for the regent (directly or indirectly) and this regent’s power is limited by some for of constitution, the people of the Solar System is living under a dictatorship.

I agree we have seen so little about Moira that she could be anyone and have her own plans on the matter, what´s interesting was that this is what she told Charles and Magneto so they have been acting under this logic but we will see on Inferno what else is going to happen. I think Moira, Mystique and Destiny relationship will have the most importance given their place in the original HoX/PoX series.

Yeah, right now Moira’s intentions are a question mark indeed. She was shown as evolving her way of thinking. In her first lives she wasn’t all about protecting mutants. But we really don’t know if she is still fighting for mutants to win the war against humans at this point.

Whoever is going to keep reading this might find out. :)

That´s good, we all have to take our breaks, I did at the beggining of Morrison run and only came back after it was done and I was happy for having done so even if I had to tackle the decimation years, I never liked the tone of his run or the fact he introduced the concept of mutants as a different species to humans with the exception of some issues and Hickman does take after him in some ways even if he has his own style so I understand this is not every reader coup of tea.

I personally, not that happy with some of Krakoa main issues, like the crucible, the way ressurrection is done, the coldness on characters who used to be warmhearted and fun, their human families who supported them, etc and we most probably will get a secret wars scenario before things get better, so I completely understand fans who just don´t want to deal with all this, still the story is interesting to me so I will stay, I may as well agree with those fans that left once all is say and done or not but what´s being done is interesting to me.

Oh, yeah… That would not be the first long break I take from comics. It might be the last - meaning, maybe I won’t come back this time - but it’s definitely not the first time.

You know I hated AvX less than this crossover, because at least the ocness wasn´t so obvious :) but I still can ignore the parts I don´t like, writers and editors do it sometimes so why not the fans ;)

I hated AvX even more than this crossover.

It would be easier to ignore the parts I don’t like if I didn’t keep being reminded of them in current comics over and over. For instance, Jean was part of a black ops team and didn’t make a big deal out of Beast’s actions once she found out about them and because of that he made matters worst. Hank is psychopath. Storm is a dictator… I think you get what I mean.

I see the point but not even on Krakoa era I have seen the X-men approaching a family this way, only Onslaught did this during his saga and that´s why I called it foul game on the writer part because he didn´t approach this in a way really involves real characterization in a crossover that´s supposed to be about both FF4 and the X-men, I probably would have given him more of a chance if he was new but he did a truly complex story in a previous FF4 work, so I really can´t take this any other way than him using the X-men as tugs to develop a story centered around the FF4 being victimized by them and as I said at the moment, he may as well have used the Kree and their judgments are more fun. Even more a lot of X-fans were excited to see the FF4 and X-men working together again, because this story was introduced as that so this was a huge let down, sure he tried to save some of it by having them work agaist Dr Doom in the end but this didn´t erase the bad taste and ocness from the beggining and worse this just feed the feeling X-men should stay isolated on their own corner of the MU so that´s why I appreciate titles like SWORD who at least has good characterization for everyone involved, including Cap and Dr Doom, without villanizing them to make the X-men more sympathetic.

I hated that crossover too. But I’m not sure if we’re supposed to blame the writer. Maybe it was exactly what Marvel wanted.

It’s the same issue I have with the whole Hickman’s run really: I can’t ever tell if it’s bad writing or intentional.

[WallStreeter]

It´s kind of silly really and there are other fans who had the same theory so I will share this here: I believe Wanda or Magneto were in reality raven posing as them on that scene from SWORD, I would really hate it if this is true because I loved that scene but this looks exactly like the kind of thing Raven would do, she can´t attack and defeat Magneto psysically but she can attack his heart and he has so many weak spots there.

spoilers:

1.- Mystique frames Wanda: Like I could see her taking Wanda´s form to reconcile with him and then attack of kill him and frame Wanda, this way even if Magneto is ressurrected he would not have the memory of what happened but would find himself with a big part of mutants angry at Wanda and him taking a stand to defend her, this at the very least would make him lose his post as QC leader and also severe his ties with Charles if he decides, under Onslaught influence, Magneto can´t no longer be objective on Wanda or the ruling of the nation. Wanda and the Avengers get involved for the framing an a fight starts and it ends when they discover Magneto is alive and mutants can come back to life, isolating Krakoa more from the rest of the MU 2.- Mystique frames Magneto: Lest say it was truly Wanda who came back to talk to Magneto but she´s not talking with him but Raven, she kills Wanda using a electro magnetic attack, maybe from Forge and Magneto is blamed because you can´t kill humans, so he goes to trial but half of mutants don´t see this as a reason to send him the the hole and others agree they should send him there, Magneto says he´s innocent but doesn´t have a way to prove it. The Avengers come because they are sure Wanda was not supposed to be there at the hour, they discover Wanda is still alive and the dead Wanda is a clone Mystique put there to frame Magneto.

end of spoilers

Those are some of my thoughts on the matter, we could end with something more unexpected or what everyone seems to think happened but Leah likes to do some curve balls on her stories so lest see where we end with this.



Well he used it last time because he wanted to avenge the mutants killed during the decimation era so the implication is that some injustice was done on Krakoa he wants to correct but given Wanda´s presence it could be him trying to get Krakoa to stop considering her enemy #1 or him investigating the mutant dead himself even if he´s framed, or him killing someone as revenge.



I don´t think so marvel pretty much confirmed it´s about a murder and her X-factor stories almost always involve someone getting killed.



I don´t think Jean likes him much or enough to defend him from something like this but I could see Lorna,Storm, Kitty, Rogue, Charles giving him the benefit of doubt or even defend him if they understand the circunstances were complex.

They were always going to undo the retcon Wanda and Pietro aren’t Magneto’s kids once Disney bought Fox giving Marvel the film and tv rights to the X-Men. Anyone who sus not willfully blind themselves could see this coming one million miles away. Marvel is often very obvious.

After forming Krakoa Apocalypse wondered what other realms could be conquered. Now they terraformed a planet. Saturnyne in ten of swords said the goddess will look to the stars. Now Storm is regent of a world.

Actually, since helped terraformed a planet and created its climate perhaps she has the same role as Gaea does on Earth potentially.

[Grinning Soul]

I understand the territorial separation but when it comes to co-existence with humanity, you can have an island and have mutant and humans live there and coexist, so territory isn´t really important in this sense.

It is. Because without a territory, humans and mutants live together under the same laws, they elect the same representatives, they’re citizens of the same nation. This alone makes a huge difference.

Now, like I said yesterday, you can have a mutant nation with a proper territory in a world where peaceful co-existence has been achieved already. Sure.

But if this nation doesn’t allow humans to immigrate to it (under certain laws/regulations), become citizens eventually and to have representatives in their governing bodies, then this is not a truly democratic nation even if it can peacefully co-exist with other nations around the world.

This is why I liked the idea of Geonsha, it ended becoming the most clear place in which Co-existence had to happen on a day to day fashion but I also liked Utopia for what it was a neccesary refuge for a truly bad era for the mutants, same with Storm Limbo refuge and Jean idea of an underwater country. Now if we can advance Krakoa to a place in which it takes seriously the need for the presence of human family members and well as human children that by logic alone, should be there but I think we are just seeing smoke and mirrors, secrets and drama before we can get into the main story.

Yes I understand she was forced to make that decision because the situation called for it but so was Scott, Utopia was an actual bunker and not something that was supposed to last and that´s why I think it´s hypocritical to judge one as bad and the other as good when they were doing the exact thing for the same good reason.

That’s the thing… I don’t think Utopia was ever intended to be temporary, though. I think it was Scott’s best compromise of the co-existence dream, but he had no plans of ever trying to move back into the human society. Dire circumstances led him to focus on survival, so I’m not making him out to be a villain, but the distinction between his plans and Jean’s are very clear: hers was never about living apart of human society and its laws.

Now, Jean wasn’t alive back then when Utopia was created. We can only speculate how she would have acted.

But the original point of this discussion wasn’t about Genosha or Utopia. It was about her dream of a non-territorial nation (and her clear view that going to an island only puts a target on your back) and her suddenly being in Krakoa.

We weren’t shown how this transition happened and, for me, it’s another evidence that something external is affecting those characters.

Let’s speculate here a little. She comes back from Age of X-Man and she kisses Scott passionately. I suppose they talk and they get over whatever troubles they had and they decide to go back to the plans they had made before The Twelve and the possession by Apocalypse. At this point, Charles or Erik or both ask them to come live in their new nation where things will be different and they’ll be able to finally have the family they’ve always dreamed of.

Now, that’s not a stretch, right? Family seems to be important for them. Maybe that’s why they decided to give it a try.

But, I don’t think Jean would be entirely sold on the idea exactly because of what happened in X-Men: Red. So she would be very alert and aware of the problems in this new society and *not* want to be part of it at whatever the price.

That’s the part that bothers me. Once she was there, it’s like she became a zombie or a robot that has to follow certain thought-patterns/instructions.

I’m hoping that forming the X-Men is the beginning of a rupture. But I’ll have to keep reading for a while, for as long as I can stomach.

Yes this is why I hated when Morrison introduced the concept of a different species because they never were that, if they really were they could not be born from humans and they could not have human children like Mystique and Magneto clearly had so for me this was just a title for the comic, in practice what they wanted to stop was the complete erradication of the sub-humanity group of mutants because they could not be born from either human or mutant because of a magical curse. One of the things I liked was the fact Phoenix force had to re-start mutant births because it truly was neccesary a force like that to begin to deal with decimation in a way that didn´t recude the severity of the situation.

Well, Lucy, what can we say? It’s a mess, right?

If a magic curse made it so that mutants couldn’t be born from humans what is to say they could be born from other mutants?

And if they couldn’t be born, they would be extinct one way or another. Even if all of them died of old age.

Some stories have idiotic premises whatever way you look. And as readers we can only shrug and keep reading or walk away. But we can’t make it less idiotic.

I agree the dream isn´t flawed but it´s still a dream, the execution is the discussion

The execution should be the discussion. But it’s not. And *that* is the problem.

They threw away the dream because the execution was flawed or proved not to be effective.

At the same time, both the dream and the execution of a mutant nation are flawed, but they keep insisting on trying it because somehow it seems more achievable.

But until someone stops to think that a mutant nation can only exists *after* co-existence has been achieved, pursuing this goal is even more non-sensical.

and this is why I don´t see a mutant nation with bad eyes, because it´s exactly what could help in the long run, not even in the real world there has come a time of complete co-existence between all people even when I am sure that has been the dream of many people, so I understand the wish to approach this from different sides and the traditional, school of the X-men way isn´t neccesarily the only correct one. That´s my point.

And I get your point.

A mutant nation is not necessarily a bad thing if it allows humans to live there and to have representation in the governing bodies. But my point is that this nation will not be viable until a certain level of tolerance has been achieved, otherwise you can avoid conflict.

What seems to be different about Krakoa is that they understand that there will be conflict and knowing that, they decided they’ll fight it an win at whatever cost. Not only it is the antithesis of co-existence, it’s the antithesis of what the X-Men represents.

And it’s *really* odd to me that none of the X-Men seems to be able to see it. Which is why I wonder if their ability of being able to see it was tampered with. It’s hard to believe that all of them are okay with it.

I believe they will have to involve humanity one way or the other, this is why I liked Fallen Angels, the writer detected early the internal problem of Krakoa being completely cut off the world in which it lived and how it would become neccesary for them to still involve themselves with the world, not because they wanted to make mutant lives better or to show mutant are not monster who need to do good deeds to be accepted but because it was the fair/just thing to do and they had the means to make it better. I wish the author had a chance to develop his idea but he did well enough developing Pyslocke with this ideal.

Yeah. I mentioned Fallen Angels here before. I didn’t like the series much, but the premise was interesting.

I hope we get to see some of it in the new X-Men book, but the premise for the group is to be the “heroes of Krakoa” so… it’s doesn’t seem to be exactly the same thing, does it?

At the same time, like I also said here, I don’t really understand the premise of this new X-Men group anyway. So, I guess I’ll have to read to get a better grip. And it’s possible it’s really just nonsensical.

I don´t really think they did given he didn´t act like being truly surprised, Scott lives with Jean, has a close relationship with Charles, Erik, Emma and Storm and will most probably deal with the logistical consequences of having to develop security for both Krakoa and now Mars, I truly can´t see this as them hidding this from him, he just hoped Steve would see this with good eyes.

Scott lives with Jean but they don’t talk about stuff. Small stuff like the Crucible. :P

And during the “fireworks” he was looking at it with the eyes of someone who drank too much Krakoan tea. Besides, he doesn’t take care of security, if he did, he would have organised the security for the Gala. And I like to believe that - even on Krakoan tea - less people would have died, because Scott is more competent than those clowns.

Nothing, I guess they will keep doing the Onslaught thing and David main complain wasn´t the act itself but that it left the rest of mutants feeling useless which is the main theme of Way of X one I believe will be solved after Onslaught revelation.

I got that. But it was just funny that Kurt voted for it. I do miss those thought balloons! That would be a perfect opportunity to see one.

Would it had read: “Ooops”? :D

They don´t really have acess to the cities, they will have to ask Storm permission to go to Krakoa and from there to earth,what they have is free movement around mars.

Do we know that for sure? They have access to Krakoa, right? And from there they can go anywhere.

[Grinning Soul]

It´s kind of silly really ;) and there are other fans who had the same theory so I will share this here: I believe Wanda or Magneto were in reality raven posing as them on that scene from SWORD, I would really hate it if this is true because I loved that scene but this looks exactly like the kind of thing Raven would do, she can´t attack and defeat Magneto psysically but she can attack his heart and he has so many weak spots there.

spoilers:

1.- Mystique frames Wanda: Like I could see her taking Wanda´s form to reconcile with him and then attack of kill him and frame Wanda, this way even if Magneto is ressurrected he would not have the memory of what happened but would find himself with a big part of mutants angry at Wanda and him taking a stand to defend her, this at the very least would make him lose his post as QC leader and also severe his ties with Charles if he decides, under Onslaught influence, Magneto can´t no longer be objective on Wanda or the ruling of the nation. Wanda and the Avengers get involved for the framing an a fight starts and it ends when they discover Magneto is alive and mutants can come back to life, isolating Krakoa more from the rest of the MU 2.- Mystique frames Magneto: Lest say it was truly Wanda who came back to talk to Magneto but she´s not talking with him but Raven, she kills Wanda using a electro magnetic attack, maybe from Forge and Magneto is blamed because you can´t kill humans, so he goes to trial but half of mutants don´t see this as a reason to send him the the hole and others agree they should send him there, Magneto says he´s innocent but doesn´t have a way to prove it. The Avengers come because they are sure Wanda was not supposed to be there at the hour, they discover Wanda is still alive and the dead Wanda is a clone Mystique put there to frame Magneto.

end of spoilers

Those are some of my thoughts on the matter, we could end with something more unexpected or what everyone seems to think happened but Leah likes to do some curve balls on her stories so lest see where we end with this.

Interesting. Thanks for sharing. :)

I don´t think so marvel pretty much confirmed it´s about a murder and her X-factor stories almost always involve someone getting killed.

We know there was a murder. But that doesn’t mean it is the crime for which he’ll be put on trial.

I don´t think Jean likes him much or enough to defend him from something like this but I could see Lorna,Storm, Kitty, Rogue, Charles giving him the benefit of doubt or even defend him if they understand the circunstances were complex.

A non-zombie Jean doesn’t need to like someone to defend them if she thinks they are suffering some injustice. But I wasn’t thinking about her when I wondered if someone would defend him.

I was thinking about her when it came to the implications/consequence of the trial. But again… I’m not sure how much I want her to be involved in any of the big events of this era as they all seem to be problematic to say the least.

[Exodus]

Just finished all comics for this months.

I really liked Jean's showing in so many books. I think the vote for the new team just looked gorgeous and gave a beautiful sense of community for mutantdom. I also loved Dauterman's art of her. Jean is really the heart of the X-Men here.

Jean as one of the main architects of Planet Arakko also gave me a lot of joy. I think they found a way to make her powers work in this scenario. She could have been more powerful. But I'm more than ok with what we got. I personally thought that the 10 omegas involved would develop some kind of new mutant technology but I think it was nonetheless nicely done. Jean's mental manipulation of Jamie was scary and hilarious at the same time.

I hope Duggan's will use her telepathy in more creative ways in the future. For me it is the most fascinating power in the marvel universe if used creatively and not just as a communication devise.

[Grinning Soul]

I hope Duggan's will use her telepathy in more creative ways in the future. For me it is the most fascinating power in the marvel universe if used creatively and not just as a communication devise.

Definitely. It's also a power that can carry a whole story that is more psychological in tone. So, in terms of narrative, it's also very interesting. And when we consider what Everett's being through, it might be a way for Jean not only to help him adjusting but to bond with him. :)

[salarta]

It´s kind of silly really and there are other fans who had the same theory so I will share this here: I believe Wanda or Magneto were in reality raven posing as them on that scene from SWORD, I would really hate it if this is true because I loved that scene but this looks exactly like the kind of thing Raven would do, she can´t attack and defeat Magneto psysically but she can attack his heart and he has so many weak spots there.

spoilers:

1.- Mystique frames Wanda: Like I could see her taking Wanda´s form to reconcile with him and then attack of kill him and frame Wanda, this way even if Magneto is ressurrected he would not have the memory of what happened but would find himself with a big part of mutants angry at Wanda and him taking a stand to defend her, this at the very least would make him lose his post as QC leader and also severe his ties with Charles if he decides, under Onslaught influence, Magneto can´t no longer be objective on Wanda or the ruling of the nation. Wanda and the Avengers get involved for the framing an a fight starts and it ends when they discover Magneto is alive and mutants can come back to life, isolating Krakoa more from the rest of the MU 2.- Mystique frames Magneto: Lest say it was truly Wanda who came back to talk to Magneto but she´s not talking with him but Raven, she kills Wanda using a electro magnetic attack, maybe from Forge and Magneto is blamed because you can´t kill humans, so he goes to trial but half of mutants don´t see this as a reason to send him the the hole and others agree they should send him there, Magneto says he´s innocent but doesn´t have a way to prove it. The Avengers come because they are sure Wanda was not supposed to be there at the hour, they discover Wanda is still alive and the dead Wanda is a clone Mystique put there to frame Magneto.

end of spoilers

Interesting theories, and I can see spoilers:

Mystique having pretended to be Wanda at the end of the SWORD issue given, as many pointed out, she appears to not be wearing a flower. There was speculation this means Wanda is actually a mutant after all, but it could also easily mean it was Mystique since she has no need for a flower while posing as someone else. Of course, there's also the chance Wanda just had the flower somewhere you can't see, but Marvel seemed to make it a point to have the flowers very prominent on non-mutants.

end of spoilers.

[Wiccan]

From X-Men Monday:

[Force de Phenix]

[Daedra]

Reboot the phoenix concept and bring back the pink psionic form, that’s all I have to say

[Force de Phenix]

Reboot the phoenix concept and bring back the pink psionic form, that’s all I have to say

I wonder if Inferno is going to have Jean play a bigger role somehow, or if it's just going to be a modern take on with the current status quo. I think it's only a matter of time until they'll reintroduce Jean's bond with the Phoenix.

[Grinning Soul]

I wonder if Inferno is going to have Jean play a bigger role somehow, or if it's just going to be a modern take on with the current status quo. I think it's only a matter of time until they'll reintroduce Jean's bond with the Phoenix.

Noooooooooooooooooooo... please, don't. Let the bird keep singing a very Echo-ey song! Jean is wearing the magic dress that protects her from the cosmic chicken! :D

[Havok83]

I wonder if Inferno is going to have Jean play a bigger role somehow, or if it's just going to be a modern take on with the current status quo. I think it's only a matter of time until they'll reintroduce Jean's bond with the Phoenix.

Inferno doesnt seem to have anything to do with Jean. She'll likely appear in the capacity as X-men leader, but not a central figure