Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[Daedra]

Yes, in an omnibus book of a sort that is no longer in circulation.

Ok lets clear the air, I’m only going by what has been stated by marvel, if you disagree take it up with them, I really don’t intend to spend time arguing about this.

[Mercury]

...I was just pointing out that it isn't in continuity for 616 Jean, which is a distinction that needs to be made. You realize we're on a message board, right? This is one of the first places that people go to learn stuff about the characters they're interested in. It needs to be noted that some things are from different Earths, is all.

I appreciate your consideration for fans and your adamance that they be correctly informed. However, couldn't it be argued that the Phoenix Force encompasses all of the Earths and transcends space and time? Furthermore, Jean is the only character out of all of Marvel that has been associated with and identified as the White Phoenix, i.e., "the final form of the Phoenix Force," [1] no?

Frankly, I'm not sure it really matters what Earth the Phoenix Force asserts a truth - it is truth, transcendent and absolute.

1. https://www.cbr.com/white-phoenix-of...own-explained/

[Grinning Soul]

So... then we're agreeing? I'm not sure why you're being so defensive lmfao. I was just pointing out that it isn't in continuity for 616 Jean, which is a distinction that needs to be made. You realize we're on a message board, right? This is one of the first places that people go to learn stuff about the characters they're interested in. It needs to be noted that some things are from different Earths, is all.

It doesn't make the story any less cool or the implications for the Phoenix/White Phoenix any less important.

But I believe it's always good to keep our records straight. That is not 616 Jean. Yet, at least.

[Mercury]

I'm getting irritated. The White Phoenix has only been associated with and embodied by Jean Grey, both in Earth-616 and now Earth-818. Once again, the Phoenix Force and its "final form" transcend space, time, and alternate universes - it encompasses all three and beyond, actually. So, if the Phoenix Force, i.e., the White Phoenix, confirmed that she and Jean are one, considering what I've mentioned above (repeatedly), does it matter what Earth she asserts that she and Jean are one? Furthermore, if we go by the argument that this scene is in Earth-818, then, as I mentioned above, it has now been confirmed that she and Jean are one in two Earths.

[Daedra]

So... then we're agreeing? I'm not sure why you're being so defensive lmfao. I was just pointing out that it isn't in continuity for 616 Jean, which is a distinction that needs to be made. You realize we're on a message board, right? This is one of the first places that people go to learn stuff about the characters they're interested in. It needs to be noted that some things are from different Earths, is all.

It’s easy to explain really, your first post seemed to imply I was categorizing this story as 616 continuity which I never did, it’s good that we cleared any possible misconception.

I appreciate your consideration for fans and your adamance that they be correctly informed. However, couldn't it be argued that the Phoenix Force encompasses all of the Earths and transcends space and time? Furthermore, Jean is the only character out of all of Marvel that has been associated with and identified as the White Phoenix, i.e., "the final form of the Phoenix Force," [1] no?

Frankly, I'm not sure it really matters what Earth the Phoenix Force asserts a truth - it is truth, transcendent and absolute.

1. https://www.cbr.com/white-phoenix-of...own-explained/

Quite right, the Phoenix Force does not have multiple versions, it transcends time and space, a truth stated by the PF is a multiversal truth.

[Mercury]

...

[Grinning Soul]

I'm getting irritated. The White Phoenix has only been associated with and embodied by Jean Grey, both in Earth-616 and now Earth-818. Once again, the Phoenix Force and its "final form" transcend space, time, and alternate universes - it encompasses all three and beyond, actually. So, if the Phoenix Force, i.e., the White Phoenix, confirmed that she and Jean are one, considering what I've mentioned above (repeatedly), does it matter what Earth she asserts that she and Jean are one? Furthermore, if we go by the argument that this scene is in Earth-818, then, as I mentioned above, it has now been confirmed that she and Jean are one in two Earths.

Not that it matters, but Hope was a White Phoenix too. Do I agree with that? No. Does it matter? No.

Now, you're reading the posts on the thread, right? So eventually you'll read what I think about the connection with Jean and Phoenix. It's just my headcanon, but just so you know where I'm coming from: I believe that, on a higher level of existence, Jean and the Phoenix are one and the same. And they only seem separate in the reality where the story happens because we only see a projection of the same being.

But 616 Jean hasn't figured that out yet. And in the 616 continuity, I'm not even sure if she has been the White Phoenix (other than in stories like Classic X-Men), because Morrison's White Phoenix happens in a future that was deleted and, at this point, I don't know if Endsong, for instance, is still supposed to be canon.

Why is it important? Well, because 616 Jean doesn't see things that way yet. She had a different experience than the Rachel's biological mother. That's all. No need to be upset.

[Daedra]

Not that it matters, but Hope was a White Phoenix too. Do I agree with that? No. Does it matter? No.

Now, you're reading the posts on the thread, right? So eventually you'll read what I think about the connection with Jean and Phoenix. It's just my headcanon, but just so you know where I'm coming from: I believe that, on a higher level of existence, Jean and the Phoenix are one and the same. And they only seem separate in the reality where the story happens because we only see a projection of the same being.

But 616 Jean hasn't figured that out yet. And in the 616 continuity, I'm not even sure if she has been the White Phoenix (other than in stories like Classic X-Men), because Morrison's White Phoenix happens in a future that was deleted and, at this point, I don't know if Endsong, for instance, is still supposed to be canon.

Why is it important? Well, because 616 Jean doesn't see things that way yet. She had a different experience than the Rachel's biological mother. That's all. No need to be upset.

Just one thing I’d like to point out ……Morrison white phoenix was independent of the timeline, she acted outside of space and time, in fact she specifically interfered with cyclops decision to keep leading the x-men in tandem with emma.

[Grinning Soul]

Just one thing I’d like to point out ……Morrison white phoenix was independent of the timeline, she acted outside of space and time, in fact she specifically interfered with cyclops decision to keep leading the x-men in tandem with emma.

You're absolutely right. But, from the perspective of Krakoan Jean, would she even know that?

EDIT: If Endsong isn't considered canon anymore, that is.

[Mercury]

Thank you for addressing my assertion, Grinning Soul. I feel much better now. Oh, and I totally forgot about Hope Summers appearing as a White Phoenix. I also just found out Emma Frost was a White Phoenix on Earth-92124...

I think I need to just slowly back away from my laptop now, lol.

[Daedra]

You're absolutely right. But, from the perspective of Krakoan Jean, would she even know that?

EDIT: If Endsong isn't considered canon anymore, that is.

Seems like the perfect summarization of Jean’s situation

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Seems like the perfect summarization of Jean’s situation

"I need to try again".

You're just asking for the Monet meme aren't you?

As for White Phoenix, nothing from the Morrison run that is specifically about Jean is canon.

Hickman even went well out of his way to take the Phoenix Egg thing away from her.

[Grinning Soul]

Thank you for addressing my assertion, Grinning Soul. I feel much better now. Oh, and I totally forgot about Hope Summers appearing as a White Phoenix. I also just found out Emma Frost was a White Phoenix on Earth-92124...

I think I need to just slowly back away from my laptop now, lol.

You're welcome.

[Grinning Soul]

Seems like the perfect summarization of Jean’s situation

My point exactly: this idea of Jean always being the Phoenix (and vice versa) isn't new. The question is: after the mess with AvX and her Resurrection story, is Endsong still canon? Or, at least, what parts are canon? What does 616 know?

Because AoA Jean was shown as Phoenix during Uncanny X-Force too, but her experience still seems very different than 818 Jean.

I think Harpsikord was just trying to point it out (please, correct me if I understood it wrongly) and I appreciate it. *shrug*

[Daedra]

My point exactly: this idea of Jean always being the Phoenix (and vice versa) isn't new. The question is: after the mess with AvX and her Resurrection story, is Endsong still canon? Or, at least, what parts are canon? What does 616 know?

Because AoA Jean was shown as Phoenix during Uncanny X-Force too, but her experience still seems very different than 818 Jean.

I think Harpsikord was just trying to point it out (please, correct me if I understood it wrongly) and I appreciate it. *shrug*

At this point people should just feel the way they feel and let others do the same, Anyone coming to this thread and acting like they hold the ultimate guidebook to Jean Grey/phoenix canon is going to eventually being proven wrong, I really think We have seen it all, each different poster picks and choses and adds his own interpretation, I guess the only truth is that there’s no truth.