Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[Mercury]

https://www.cbr.com/marvel-female-heroes-role-models/

[Omega_DCD]

I could really do without the patron Saint part

[Mercury]

I could really do without the patron Saint part

Not I. I love it. However, I could do without the "might make her more than a match"; she is more than a match for any foe.

[Grinning Soul]

I could really do without the patron Saint part

When I think this was one of the supposed motivations to keep her dead for 15+ years, yeah... me too.

[Mercury]

Okay, so I've fleshed out part of how I view Jean's connection with the Phoenix Force. Tell me what you all think - if you agree or disagree - and why:

Jean Grey transcended the physical plane when she used the totality of her psionic power to pilot a doomed space shuttle containing her and her team. As she shielded herself and the shuttle from cosmic radiation, her sheer force of will enkindled the manifestation of the near-full capacity of her telepathic and telekinetic abilities. In her supreme exertion, she became pure psionic energy. Resultingly, her essence began to transcend her physical form and the material plane as a whole, causing her body to wither due to the radiation that pummeled it. Unprepared for such a shift in perspective and consciousness, she let out a reverberating psychic cry. Already familiar with Jean since her prepubescence, her bellow, coupled with her purity of heart, soul, and intent, compelled the Phoenix Force to come to her aid, protecting her body and essence from both the ravages of radiation and her own unbridled power. It fashioned a new body for her, placing her old body in a cocoon and fusing her essence with the clone, which it also inhabited to stabilize and reinforce the binding. Thus, the union between Jean Grey and the Phoenix Force was complete.

However, it was a union the Phoenix Force intended to sustain only through the duration of Jean’s psychic and physical rehabilitation, and adjustment to her quickened power advancement. Later, when Mesmero hypnotized her and Mastermind, with the help of the White Queen, penetrated her mind, it was the Phoenix Force that prevented either of their powers from taking complete control of Jean’s psyche. Unfortunately, still reeling from her experience on the shuttle, Jean was further traumatized by the insidious interruption of her healing and the psychic violations perpetrated against her. Additionally, incited by Jean’s pain and trauma and engaged by the abusive behavior she was subjected to, the Phoenix Force’s destructive side, i.e., one aspect of its raison d'être – to burn away the defective and obsolete – was initiated. Although Jean fought to repress both, her trauma and the Phoenix Force’s instinctive destructiveness overwhelmed her. Her pain and anger and its wrath merged into a primal rage that became addictive in its search for recompense and sanctification.

Later, to protect both her friends and the cosmos at large, Jean killed herself on the Blue Area of the Moon. In that instant, Jean’s mind, heart, and soul synchronized and revolted against her own trauma-induced rage and addiction and the Phoenix Force’s wrathful reflex to destroy what it deemed flawed and deficient, killing the clone it had created for her. But, recognizing the selfless, courageous, and transcendent nature of what Jean had done for a second time, the Phoenix Force chose to preserve her essence, returning it to her former body, which lay encased in the cocoon it had created at the bottom of Jamaica Bay. Furthermore, the Phoenix Force imparted a fragment of itself to Jean so that she could continue to heal more rapidly than she would on her own. Since then, it has attempted on various occasions to fully unite with her once more. But Jean, not having fully faced and healed from the trauma she endured either on the shuttle, at the hands of sadists, and when possessed by the Phoenix Force’s darkest facet, has chosen to reject it on most occasions.

Only time will tell if and when Jean will accept her bond with the Phoenix Force, which will always remain a part of her, even if only dormant.

[Omega_DCD]

When I think this was one of the supposed motivations to keep her dead for 15+ years, yeah... me too.

Yeah, and for me, it flattens her character. Seems like so many other character are able to exhibit, ironically, many shades of gray...except Jean Grey. It boxes her in, and if acts anything less than saintly, she's a "hypocrite", rather than a 3 dimensional human(mutant) being

[Mercury]

Yeah, and for me, it flattens her character. Seems like so many other character are able to exhibit, ironically, many shades of gray...except Jean Grey. It boxes her in, and if acts anything less than saintly, she's a "hypocrite", rather than a 3 dimensional human(mutant) being

I view the title “patron saint” as a title of endearment and authority rather than as an indicator of her personality. Incidentally, most saints were far from perfect and struggled to adhere to their ideals. In fact, it is often the struggle to strive for rather than the embodiment of perfection that makes a saint. In either case, she has sacrificed herself for the greater good a couple of times, which many saints are known for having done.

I do get your point, though.

[xhx23x]

Yeah, and for me, it flattens her character. Seems like so many other character are able to exhibit, ironically, many shades of gray...except Jean Grey. It boxes her in, and if acts anything less than saintly, she's a "hypocrite", rather than a 3 dimensional human(mutant) being

During the period she was dead I highly hated the School was named after her because I was convinced that was just another way for them to keep Jean as a symbol rather than havinh the balls to bring her back and deal with the ramifications of her absence in a meaningful way. Marvel just wanted to make money of teasing her rather than actually using her, so yeah I'm not fond of that title for her either. Maybe it wasn't meant to be taken that way but it's hard not to see it as such.

[Grinning Soul]

Yeah, and for me, it flattens her character. Seems like so many other character are able to exhibit, ironically, many shades of gray...except Jean Grey. It boxes her in, and if acts anything less than saintly, she's a "hypocrite", rather than a 3 dimensional human(mutant) being

Haters hate her when she does everything right. Then they hate her when she does anything wrong. What can we do? *shrug*

But yeah, these descriptions don't help, even if they're supposed to be flattering.

[Mercury]

...having the balls to bring her back and deal with the ramifications of her absence in a meaningful way...

God, I wish for all that this ^ could have brought about. And you're right, they didn't have the balls. I have my fingers crossed that we'll see more of her qualities as evidenced throughout the years shine in X-Men.

[Mercury]

Haters hate her when she does everything right. Then they hate her when she does anything wrong. What can we do? *shrug*

We can support her rather than side with or unwittingly help the "haters."

[Devaishwarya]

CBR's "lists" are laughable and should never ever be taken seriously. I love Storm but...I would never say she's "perfect".

[Grinning Soul]

CBR's "lists" are laughable and should never ever be taken seriously. I love Storm but...I would never say she's "perfect".

Me neither. But I wouldn't dare saying that in front of some of her fans! :D

[Devaishwarya]

LOL. Touche,

[Lucyinthesky]

I think Jean has a lot of nuances to her character: she can be loving but also give some tough love when it´s needed like in the case of Angel, she can be caring but also explain plainly how she feels about the situation like when she told Rachel she was not her actual Mom and sometimes even if it´s something that upsets the people she cares about, like that one time she confronted Charles over having Sabretooth in the house, her power gives her a great empathy but this doesn´t mean she will just give everybody a pass for acting wrongly or hurting others, her nuance is similar to Kurt or Ororo they are nuanced just not the kind that make them an anti-hero and I believe this may be playing agaisnt them during this era in comics because lately it seems anti-hero is the name of the game for a lot of popular characters so for those characters that are nuanced but are not anti-heros, they are seen as flat or boring when they are just human. I may be wrong but this is the impression I have for this era.

In Jean´s case this is harder because after staying dead for 15 years even writers started to believe she was either a phoenix goodness or "too saintly" for the stories they were telling so her characterization sometimes goes too into one side or the other, or they tell stories about her romance with Scott or Logan but I think we have yet to see her as the three dimensional character she was before her death. X-men Red was a good beggining but I felt something was still missing in her characterization.

I also hate the idea some fans have that she´s always dying just because she said that once, she only died officially once, at most twice, there are a lot of marvel characters who have died a lot other times but it´s just her who is seen like she´s always dying and that´s not true.