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  1. #5716
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    Iron man's suit is made of liquid metal technology.There's no screws for her to mess up.
    Jean's tk can operate at a molecular/subatomic level, so, yeah...

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    And as soon as he feels said blood Flow(you are saying Jean gets the drop on them which I concur is necessary for this to be a fight) he is still fast enough for the hammer strike.
    She's very fast with her tk. Do you know how fast an object needs to fly to achieve escape velocity from Mars, which is what she achieved with her tk in Planet Size X-Men? 11,386.005727 mph. And that's considering that she hurled an object the size of a skyscraper and that weighed multiple tons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    He is.Read any morden hulk comic.Any telepath and even astral plane magic stuff from Doctor Strange couldn't take him down.
    She can't.Hulk can easily thunderclap her way before that.
    Again, her tk is extremely powerful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    Just one thing I feel you ignore, all this is happening at the same time.This isn't a 1v1 case.All these guys plus Captain marvel,Ghost rider, Blade and Black Panther(also Echo phoenix and the starbrand but let's leave them out for now since that's just a stomp) will be with them too.Even if you believe she can do this 1v1(it's doubtful imo but I can see it happening) but together(they are a very good team with amazing team-work and experience) is just not viable imo.
    Now we're getting spicey. Jean will peel the skins off of their skulls, too. lol.
    Last edited by Mercury; 07-21-2021 at 12:55 PM.

  2. #5717
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    Spiderfan00, no one can prove that Jean can do it because a lot depends on the fight itself. For instance, who are the Avengers and how many? The more Avengers you have in the team who aren't telepathically protected somehow, the more allies Jean gets to fight *with* her in a matter of a simple mass suggestion: "defend me".

    It won't work on all of them for sure. But it buys her time.

    So you see... it's really hard to really have an impartial discussion like this, without actually establishing who will be there and at what power level.

    For instance, back in the 60s, Jean had tk-sensitivity already. But Morrison made a big deal out of it. That makes a huge difference. We would first have to establish if Jean currently has that or not.

    You see the problem?
    I took current Avengers roster(except Phoenix echo and Starbrand since they would stomp and Blade and ghost Rider since I don't know much about them.Also kinds left out Cap Marvel and panther at the end).

    fair enough.

    Also all these strategies take time whereas the ones I put forth for Avengers don't take more than a second at most and usually much less.(Tony's suit does microseconds easy, Thunderclap, Hammer Srike,etc)

  3. #5718
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    I took current Avengers roster(except Phoenix echo and Starbrand since they would stomp and Blade and ghost Rider since I don't know much about them.Also kinds left out Cap Marvel and panther at the end).

    fair enough.

    Also all these strategies take time whereas the ones I put forth for Avengers don't take more than a second at most and usually much less.(Tony's suit does microseconds easy, Thunderclap, Hammer Srike,etc)
    You keep bringing up Phoenix Echo as if Jean wouldn't have the simple option of saying, "To me, my Phoenix," and the Phoenix Force wouldn't jump into her quicker than a New York minute. Let's be clear, the Phoenix Force did not want to part with Jean, in fact, loves her deeply, and for a Cosmic Force to love a human being, albeit a mutant one... well, that says it all really. The Phoenix Force would not allow anyone to try and harm Jean Grey, less so someone it has bonded with.

    The rest are no competition for her - with or without the Phoenix Force.

  4. #5719
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    Jean's tk can operate at a molecular/subatomic level, so, yeah...



    She's very fast with her tk. Do you know how fast an object needs to fly to achieve escape velocity from Mars, which is what she has achieved with her tk? 11,386.005727 mph.



    Again, her tk is extremely powerful.



    Now we're getting spicey. Jean will peel the skins off of their skulls, too. lol.
    The suit is resistant to manipulation.And she has no knowledge of how it works.Even if she could, it will take her a lot of time in which suits defenses I listed will take care of her.(Microseconds)


    Cute, Thor's hammer is way past the speed of light
    https://www.quora.com/How-fast-does-Mj%C3%B6lnir-travel

    We have seen hulk deal with much worse in IM series.The only way the entirety of Avengers(with the new celestial base with black Panther, hulkbuster, Thor,etc.), gamma flight,etc. took him down was use a space laser built specifically for him.Which he is now immune too.

  5. #5720
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    You keep bringing up Phoenix Echo as if Jean wouldn't have the simple option of saying, "To me, my Phoenix," and the Phoenix Force wouldn't jump into her quicker than a New York minute. Let's be clear, the Phoenix Force did not want to part with Jean, in fact, loves her deeply - and for a Cosmic Force to love a human being, albeit a mutant one... well, that says it all really. The rest are no competition for her - with or without the Phoenix Force.
    I don't keep bringing her up.I just said she is part of said roster.
    And the starbrand would destroy Jean in an instant.

    And we will seemingly see phoenix tie into Echo's ancestry in the new series.I agree they shouldn't but your connection theory may be proven wrong.

  6. #5721
    Astonishing Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    I took current Avengers roster(except Phoenix echo and Starbrand since they would stomp and Blade and ghost Rider since I don't know much about them.Also kinds left out Cap Marvel and panther at the end).

    fair enough.

    Also all these strategies take time whereas the ones I put forth for Avengers don't take more than a second at most and usually much less.(Tony's suit does microseconds easy, Thunderclap, Hammer Srike,etc)
    Three questions, then:

    1) Who do you consider would fall for the "defend me" mass suggestion? Which takes the time of a mere thought for an Omega-Level telepath.
    2) Does Jean have tk-sensitivity?
    3) Would telepathic feats that haven't been used yet but are within the realm of possibilities for a skillful Omega-Level telepath be allowed?

  7. #5722
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    The suit is resistant to manipulation.And she has no knowledge of how it works.Even if she could, it will take her a lot of time in which suits defenses I listed will take care of her.(Microseconds).

    Cute, Thor's hammer is way past the speed of light
    https://www.quora.com/How-fast-does-Mj%C3%B6lnir-travel

    We have seen hulk deal with much worse in IM series.The only way the entirety of Avengers(with the new celestial base with black Panther, hulkbuster, Thor,etc.), gamma flight,etc. took him down was use a space laser built specifically for him.Which he is now immune too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    I don't keep bringing her up.I just said she is part of said roster.
    And the starbrand would destroy Jean in an instant.

    And we will seemingly see phoenix tie into Echo's ancestry in the new series.I agree they shouldn't but your connection theory may be proven wrong.
    Again, the Phoenix Force would shoot right into Jean. It's primarily tied to her bloodline, regardless of whatever other bloodlines it may have traversed through.

    Actually, Jean has literally ripped the Phoenix Force out of Emma Frost and summoned it back to herself.



    And since we now have the Phoenix Force squarely on the table, ain't nobody stopping her.

  8. #5723
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    Three questions, then:

    1) Who do you consider would fall for the "defend me" mass suggestion? Which takes the time of a mere thought for an Omega-Level telepath.
    2) Does Jean have tk-sensitivity?
    3) Would telepathic feats that haven't been used yet but are within the realm of possibilities for a skillful Omega-Level telepath be allowed?
    1)Technically Black Panther and iron man have given special amour to all of them in the current run, but I'm not sure about their T.P. resisitance.
    And Tony has the air-brone nanobots to take care of T.P.
    Black Panther has something similar.

    As for ones that will fall I would say none of them fall instantly, but Blade,Echo, cap marvel will fall.

    All of them have very good to extreme T.P. resistance but jean is a different kinda dangerous.

    2)No clue

    3)Any clues as to what these feats are

    Again the point is jean has way too much on her plate and most of these members can one shot her despite her T.K.
    Iron man and black Panther have so much tech, Thor's hammer and Hulk Thunderclap are under microseconds.
    Even carol and ghost rider could do her in if they get a shot

  9. #5724
    Astonishing Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    1)Technically Black Panther and iron man have given special amour to all of them in the current run, but I'm not sure about their T.P. resisitance.
    And Tony has the air-brone nanobots to take care of T.P.
    Black Panther has something similar.

    As for ones that will fall I would say none of them fall instantly, but Blade,Echo, cap marvel will fall.

    All of them have very good to extreme T.P. resistance but jean is a different kinda dangerous.

    2)No clue

    3)Any clues as to what these feats are

    Again the point is jean has way too much on her plate and most of these members can one shot her despite her T.K.
    Iron man and black Panther have so much tech, Thor's hammer and Hulk Thunderclap are under microseconds.
    Even carol and ghost rider could do her in if they get a shot
    Again... before we even get to the actual fight, we need to establish the circumstances of the fight. If you're not up to do it, it's fine. But otherwise I find it really hard to even attempt it. So, what do you say?

  10. #5725
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    Again, the Phoenix Force would shoot right into Jean. It's primarily tied to her bloodline, regardless of whatever other bloodlines it may have traversed through.

    Actually, Jean has literally ripped the Phoenix Force out of Emma Frost and summoned it back to herself.



    And since we know have the Phoenix Force squarely on the table, ain't nobody stopping her.
    Well if you will play the phoenix card.

    1)We have a starbrand. Check him out, he can hold his own here.

    2)Time, in the time it takes for this to happen, Jean will be done for.

    3)Bp and Iron man have anti-phoenix gear.We saw BP's in a KIB tie-in.

    4)It's Thors mom.That's going to be a problem.

    5)Phoenix's connection with Echo seem very strong.Time will tell but in the future series she may be strong enough to hold her own.

  11. #5726
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    Again... before we even get to the actual fight, we need to establish the circumstances of the fight. If you're not up to do it, it's fine. But otherwise I find it really hard to even attempt it. So, what do you say?
    I don't know much in this regard.
    What do you think her current showings indicate?

  12. #5727
    Astonishing Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    I don't know much in this regard.
    What do you think her current showings indicate?
    It's not just hers. I have two more questions:

    1) Where is the fight happening? New York City will be different than an open plain.
    2) Who is the villain? Is Jean limited by her normal moral/ethical behaviour?

  13. #5728
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    Well if you will play the phoenix card.

    1)We have a starbrand. Check him out, he can hold his own here.

    2)Time, in the time it takes for this to happen, Jean will be done for.

    3)Bp and Iron man have anti-phoenix gear.We saw BP's in a KIB tie-in.

    4)It's Thors mom.That's going to be a problem.

    5)Phoenix's connection with Echo seem very strong.Time will tell but in the future series she may be strong enough to hold her own.
    1) I doubt he would be able to deal with Phoenix or, for that matter, the White Phoenix.

    2) I'm not sure it would take her so much time if she willingly and openly embraced the Force. Even in the page I posted above, she was still battling it. For the sake of this fight, I would say she would embrace it fully. It would go to her willingly because she is its perfect host.

    3) Anti-Phoenix gear or Anti-Fragmented-Phoenix Gear?

    4) I think it'll be more a problem for Thor, as in momma teaching him a lesson.

    Please do not underestimate Jean's connection to the Phoenix Force. Their relationship has been compromised only because Jean has chosen to sever ties. It will ALWAYS prefer her above all other hosts. In fact, they are bound together on a level most people don't understand. It will defend her.

  14. #5729
    Astonishing Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    I'm sorry for bugging you, Spiderfan001. I don't want to be annoying. It's just that the fight would be super hard and Jean's powers are super versatile (and she's very creative when using them).

  15. #5730
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    It's not just hers. I have two more questions:

    1) Where is the fight happening? New York City will be different than an open plain.
    2) Who is the villain? Is Jean limited by her normal moral/ethical behaviour?
    1)New York is fine.If you want mountains near Aveneger's mountain then that works as well.
    2)No villain.Jean wants to take the down(maybe because False info by xavier) and vice versa.No one gets the drop to keep it fair.
    Let's say serious behavior since both now the threat posed by the other.

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