Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[Spiderfan001]

I'm sorry for bugging you, Spiderfan001. I don't want to be annoying. It's just that the fight would be super hard and Jean's powers are super versatile (and she's very creative when using them).

Of course.
But so are the Avengers and with the current roster(Leaving out Echo and Starbrand since that's no fun) they are much more versatile.

[Sylarmax]

Of course.
But so are the Avengers and with the current roster(Leaving out Echo and Starbrand since that's no fun) they are much more versatile.

The facts indicate that Thor could withstand anything Jean tries quite well. But a single attack from Thor is enough for her to drop dead.


In the Black King saga they mentioned that the most powerful of ALL those who were there was Thor, so ...

[Spiderfan001]

1) I doubt he would be able to deal with Phoenix or, for that matter, the White Phoenix.

2) I'm not sure it would take her so much time if she willingly and openly embraced the Force. Even in the page I posted above, she was still battling it. For the sake of this fight, I would say she would embrace it fully. It would go to her willingly because she is its perfect host.

3) Anti-Phoenix gear or Anti-Fragmented-Phoenix Gear?

4) I think it'll be more a problem for Thor, as in momma teaching him a lesson.

Please do not underestimate Jean's connection to the Phoenix Force. Their relationship has been compromised only because Jean has chosen to sever ties. It will ALWAYS prefer her above all other hosts. In fact, they are bound together on a level most people don't understand. It will defend her.

1)He can contend.

2)Even a microsecond is enough.

3)No, it's a giant panther energy thing for B.P.
The rest is tony

4)She doesn't want to hurt him IIRC.

Yeah, like 2 people breaking up because one wants to.The other gets hurt man.Like the symbiote and Peter.Symbiote wants Peter but will also kill him because he discarded it.

[Spiderfan001]

The facts indicate that Thor could withstand anything Jean tries quite well. But a single attack from Thor is enough for her to drop dead.


In the Black King saga they mentioned that the most powerful of ALL those who were there was Thor, so ...

Many of them could one shot her.They have superiority in strength, speed and versatility.

[Grinning Soul]

1)New York is fine.If you want mountains near Aveneger's mountain then that works as well.
2)No villain.Jean wants to take the down(maybe because False info by xavier) and vice versa.No one gets the drop to keep it fair.
Let's say serious behavior since both now the threat posed by the other.

If Jean has to follow her moral/ethical behaviour, I don't think she can take them on her own at her current power levels. She wouldn't want to actually kill any of them or use the population as meat shields to keep the Avengers busy or any other things like that.

[Sylarmax]

Many of them could one shot her.They have superiority in strength, speed and versatility.

This is true. Jean no hace súper speed .

[Spiderfan001]

If Jean has to follow her moral/ethical behaviour, I don't think she can take them on her own at her current power levels. She wouldn't want to actually kill any of them or use the population as meat shields to keep the Avengers busy or any other things like that.

Yeah.But if I do both bloodlust no morals then
1)thor's hammer will destroy her before this begins
2)Tony would use satellites to kill her and also all his suits
3)Hulk would insta thunderclap
4)Cap would blitz or blast
5)BP would take her out as well

Just seems like it won't work

[Mercury]

1)He can contend.

2)Even a microsecond is enough.

3)No, it's a giant panther energy thing for B.P.
The rest is tony

4)She doesn't want to hurt him IIRC.

Yeah, like 2 people breaking up because one wants to.The other gets hurt man.Like the symbiote and Peter.Symbiote wants Peter but will also kill him because he discarded it.

1) I agree that he would "struggle to surmount," but he would fail.

2) Again, you are underestimating her speed. Put it this way: The Phoenix Force, in a sense, is already in Jean. She's just shut it down and forced it to fragment itself amongst others; well now, Echo. If she called on it, it would manifest instantaneously. This is not something that would take minutes. It would happen at the speed of thought, or rather light.

3) Again, the Anti-Phoenix Gear was never used successfully against an unfragmented Phoenix or, for that matter, the White Phoenix. The gear would be disintegrated.

4) She would if he wants to hurt Jean.

[Sylarmax]

Many of them could one shot her.They have superiority in strength, speed and versatility.

By the way in the current saga of heroes reborn.
Jean was killed by Hyperion. Interesting note.


And Hyperion was defeated by the Avengers.

[Mercury]

Interesting note(s):

Thor technically almost died when killed by the serpent Jormungandr at the end of Walt Simonson's legendary run on Thor. Thor was blasted into nothing by Michael Korvac in the Avengers, and Eric Masterson as Thor was turned to glass and shattered by Thanos armed with the Infinity Gauntlet. Thor technically died during the Final Ragnarok when he defeated Those Who Sit Above In Shadow. He later died fighting his uncle Cul, God of Fear, during Fear Itself. The Odinson went out fighting alongside Hyperion when the Beyonders invaded during Time Runs Out. Eric Masterson, who later became Thunderstrike, killed himself to remove the corruption of the Bloodaxe. Red Norvell, another person who became Thor, was killed by a rampaging Donald Blake. Finally, King Thor, the most powerful Thor who exists in the far future at the end of time, died while slaying Gorr the God-Butcher for the final time.

[Grinning Soul]

Yeah.But if I do both bloodlust no morals then
1)thor's hammer will destroy her before this begins
2)Tony would use satellites to kill her and also all his suits
3)Hulk would insta thunderclap
4)Cap would blitz or blast
5)BP would take her out as well

Just seems like it won't work

That's also true. Which is why I asked who was the villain. If both sides are the villain and no one is holding back, at her current power level (and this is important to note), there are just too many of them.

If Jean was also an Omega-tk, though, then the story would be different.

Also... if adult Jean was allowed to do what teen Jean did, none of them would actually kill her, so... she could keep reforming until she took all of them, but the Hulk down.

You see my point? It is what the writers decide it is...

EDIT: but it's certainly much more complex than the CBR article implied.

[Spiderfan001]

1) I agree that he would "struggle to surmount," but he would fail.

2) Again, you are underestimating her speed. Put it this way: The Phoenix Force, in a sense, is already in Jean. She's just shut it down and forced it to fragment itself amongst others; well now, Echo. If she called on it, it would manifest instantaneously. This is not something that would take minutes. It would happen at the speed of thought, or rather light.

3) Again, the Anti-Phoenix Gear was never used successfully against an unfragmented Phoenix or, for that matter, the White Phoenix. The gear would be disintegrated.

4) She would if he wants to hurt Jean.

1)Would buy a lot of time.Not that it would ever come to that
2)Cool.Thor's hammer is far beyond that and would instantly kill her.Also I heavily doubt Jean would want Phoenix back.
3)It worked a bit.And BP's gear seems that it has promise.
4)Not really, she wants to have a good relation with him.He was trying to hurt her and she wasn't attacking back.

[Spiderfan001]

That's also true. Which is why I asked who was the villain. If both sides are the villain and no one is holding back, at her current power level (and this is important to note), there are just too many of them.

If Jean was also an Omega-tk, though, then the story would be different.

Also... if adult Jean was allowed to do what teen Jean did, none of them would actually kill her, so... she could keep reforming until she took all of them, but the Hulk down.

You see my point? It is what the writers decide it is...

Yeah, there are way too many here.

Yeah, that would be more fair.

I mean then we have people on this team who can time travel as well and have relations to primal gods.I don't usually bring this up unless they do it regurarly.

Yeah, that is always been the case.Writers

[Mercury]

1)Would buy a lot of time.Not that it would ever come to that
2)Cool.Thor's hammer is far beyond that and would instantly kill her.Also I heavily doubt Jean would want Phoenix back.
3)It worked a bit.And BP's gear seems that it has promise.
4)Not really, she wants to have a good relation with him.He was trying to hurt her and she wasn't attacking back.

1) Buy time for whom? She can fight all of them all at once, especially with the Force.

2) And she would resurrect herself? I mean, come on, lol.

3) "It worked a bit" against fragments of the Force. When the Force animates itself in Jean, it does so fully, more fully than it has or will with anyone else.

4) Let's say she doesn't fight back. Exactly as he wasn't able to kill her then, he wouldn't be able to kill her when animated through Jean.

[Mercury]

Also... if adult Jean was allowed to do what teen Jean did, none of them would actually kill her, so... she could keep reforming until she took all of them, but the Hulk down.

You see my point? It is what the writers decide it is...

EDIT: but it's certainly much more complex than the CBR article implied.

You do have a valid point, but I see the point being whether Jean could and would defeat the Avengers and the answer is yes, especially given certain circumstances.

However, I will concede and say that the Avengers could, given certain circumstances, defeat Jean too. Nevertheless, given that her tie with the Phoenix Force is intrinsic, it would be highly unlikely.

EDIT: Also, I want to take this opportunity to apologize to Spideyfan001 for ordering him to "zip it," lol. I was seriously playing, but humor is sometimes hard to gauge on here. Honestly, this has been a fun and invigorating debate. I know I'm defending Jean fiercely and fervently, but I am also learning new things and am having an overall good time, so I hope there are no hard feelings between any of us.