Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[Daedra]

Jean should just drop Scott off at Emma´s house and jump Logan there too.

I’d love Jean to leave on a solo adventure, a sort of journey of self discovery.........she needs to just be herself..... not the mother, not the wife, not the girfriend or the student

[WallStreeter]

I’d love Jean to leave on a solo adventure, a sort of journey of self discovery.........she needs to just be herself..... not the mother, not the wife, not the girfriend or the student

Exactly. I also want to say that female characters can get good stories when they have relationships. Look at Wandavision, and look at Cavelady Phoenix.

It´s just that Jean is depowered so SCOTT and LOGAN aren´t exposed as WEAK and USELESS.

Let´s face it, Cyclops and Logan are not only way behind characters like Thor and Dr. Strange, they are nothing compared to tech geniuses like Iron Man.

In the early days, the X-Men didn´t have powerful characters and they tended to have characters who were one trick ponies like Scott and Logan. That´s certainly not the case now with characters like Magik, Cable, Magneto, the current Iceman, Rogue, etc.

But Cyclops and Wolverine don´t evolve in power, and that is used to hold Jean BACK.

[WallStreeter]

I would love to see Jean on solo adventures too. I´m not opposed to have having a relationship, or for her interacting with her children. It shouldn´t be the primary focus.

Again look at WandaVision. She has a husband and children. But Wanda created a perfect world for her to live in due grief. This is HER story, not the story of her husband or kids. Rarely does Jean get her own story.

[TheDeadSpace]

Sometimes, I don't feel that welcomed here. This feels like one of them.

That being said, I'm not a fan of Jean's current depiction. There's little there to be loved, but I think it has more to do with a lack of interest of ideas from Hickman currently more than anything. That and he seems to want a main family in krakoa's current era with Cyclops and Jean. What for I don't know and honestly I'm just as disappointed as both characters seem inconsequential to a lot of story beats these days. That's just my two cents though. Don't kill me, lol.

[Daedra]

Exactly. I also want to say that female characters can get good stories when they have relationships. Look at Wandavision, and look at Cavelady Phoenix.

It´s just that Jean is depowered so SCOTT and LOGAN aren´t exposed as WEAK and USELESS.

Let´s face it, Cyclops and Logan are not only way behind characters like Thor and Dr. Strange, they are nothing compared to tech geniuses like Iron Man.

In the early days, the X-Men didn´t have powerful characters and they tended to have characters who were one trick ponies like Scott and Logan. That´s certainly not the case now with characters like Magik, Cable, Magneto, the current Iceman, Rogue, etc.

But Cyclops and Wolverine don´t evolve in power, and that is used to hold Jean BACK.

She need to establish her space, narratively speaking these relationships just don’t leave her any space for growth......xavier, scott, logan ..... she can go back to them but first she needs to evolve on her own, remember when she got her own flat with misty knight?

[Daedra]

Sometimes, I don't feel that welcomed here. This feels like one of them.

That being said, I'm not a fan of Jean's current depiction. There's little there to be loved, but I think it has more to do with a lack of interest of ideas from Hickman currently more than anything. That and he seems to want a main family in krakoa's current era with Cyclops and Jean. What for I don't know and honestly I'm just as disappointed as both characters seem inconsequential to a lot of story beats these days. That's just my two cents though. Don't kill me, lol.

I’m not advocating for the erasure of her love for scott, he will always be the love of jean’s life. But she needs to be more than the sum total of her relationships.

[WallStreeter]

She need to establish her space, narratively speaking these relationships just don’t leave her any space for growth......xavier, scott, logan ..... she can go back to them but first she needs to evolve on her own, remember when she got her own flat with misty knight?

I do remember Misty Knight and that was great. And yes, we have Rachel and Cable around as Jean and Scott´s kids, great. But it might be better for Jean to move beyond the relationships of Xavier, Scott, and Logan.

I mean she and Scott have the kids together, but that doesn´t mean they necessarily have to be together. Logan can be left in the past. And Xavier, students don´t spend their lives up under their teachers.

[Rang10]

I’d love Jean to leave on a solo adventure, a sort of journey of self discovery.........she needs to just be herself..... not the mother, not the wife, not the girfriend or the student

YEAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

That is what Jean needs to discoer herself. With all this talk about Wanda, my favorite read with her was her solo that explored her mother's origins

[TheDeadSpace]

But she needs to be more than the sum total of her relationships.

No argument there. It also seems to be a concept most writers miss when writing relationships. One side benefits, and another somehow always is placed as a prop. Jean would have probably benefited more if she was on a team without Scott or Logan. I don't think it's necessarily their fault, but it could have been a way to avoid the perception of it.

That being said, things might improve in X-Men with the new team, but my worry is that the team will be the actual focus and Cyke and Jean will still being doing nothing. Hopefully it's balanced, but I'm not too optimistic these days.

[Rang10]

I’m not advocating for the erasure of her love for scott, he will always be the love of jean’s life. But she needs to be more than the sum total of her relationships.

To be fair I had enough of Jean and Scott relationship, it only exists for nostalgia. I see no reasons for her keep loving him, it started to get on a very abusive end here

Talking about Wanda again, a good thing tht happened to her was moving on to Wonder man and then to Brother voodoo.
Really good showing women are independent and can move on from jerks

I´m not particularly impressed by Percy, either. I think Jean´s portrayal lately has been so dismal people are excited that Percy has her use her tk. Quentin seems to be the protagonist of this book. He gets his girl Phoebe. I mean he gets killed all the time, but it still seems to be clear this is his book. Nothing wrong with that, but it still isn´t giving Jean a good showing. She´s called in to do telepathic scans Quentin or Phoebe Cuckoo or Sage could do. Percy had Jean decide she was too much of the good girl to really work with X-Force, so that means his idea of her is still stuck in the 1970s.

YUCK!

And he is right here, having a character and doing what is right isn't old fashioned

She need to establish her space, narratively speaking these relationships just don’t leave her any space for growth......xavier, scott, logan ..... she can go back to them but first she needs to evolve on her own, remember when she got her own flat with misty knight?

I think a lot about Jean being friends with Misty Knight, because it doesn't look real. Too bad they never interacted for decades

[andreikes]

Now we know where the hickman's inspiration came from

[PwrdOn]

Sometimes, I don't feel that welcomed here. This feels like one of them.

That being said, I'm not a fan of Jean's current depiction. There's little there to be loved, but I think it has more to do with a lack of interest of ideas from Hickman currently more than anything. That and he seems to want a main family in krakoa's current era with Cyclops and Jean. What for I don't know and honestly I'm just as disappointed as both characters seem inconsequential to a lot of story beats these days. That's just my two cents though. Don't kill me, lol.

There is just this general perception among Jean fans that Scott is holding her back, and vice versa. This is pretty common in fandoms and wouldn't really be a big deal except for the fact that most of the history of both characters has been shaped by writers who were ascended fanboys and thought along those lines, often letting their own preferences get in the way of good storytelling. So for a long time there we had the Rightclops era where it seemed like editorial was hellbent on pushing this line that Scott was this cool, macho, alpha male, not the sad simp who's always pining for Jean and getting emasculated by Wolverine, and then that was followed up by the Bendis era where everything became all about Jean and how special she was and how everything revolved around her. And on top of all that, the writers seem to love using them to air out whatever grievances they had over their own failed relationships, and so actions that made no sense in-story suddenly become crystal clear once you take that into account. Of course this kind of nonsense wouldn't really fly in any other medium, but with comics being such an insular circle with such a narrow audience, they can get away with this stuff and even be cheered as visionaries for it.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Percy had Jean decide she was too much of the good girl to really work with X-Force, so that means his idea of her is still stuck in the 1970s.

I think this is part of a narrative. I think between covers and an interview, we have some indications that Jean is not done with the book.

[Zelena]

Sometimes, I don't feel that welcomed here. This feels like one of them.

That being said, I'm not a fan of Jean's current depiction. There's little there to be loved, but I think it has more to do with a lack of interest of ideas from Hickman currently more than anything. That and he seems to want a main family in krakoa's current era with Cyclops and Jean. What for I don't know and honestly I'm just as disappointed as both characters seem inconsequential to a lot of story beats these days. That's just my two cents though. Don't kill me, lol.

From what I see, I agree with you and for my part, I would extend this to all the characters…

When I started reading the X-men stories, Jean Grey had the Phoenix and she was with Scott Summers: it was a real love story, they loved each other, they disagreed and they reconciled… Logan was around and had a crush on Jean Grey.

There were a lot of panels on each page and the narrative was denser: there were as many panels about relationships as panels about action and storyline in each issue.

[Havok83]

I´m not particularly impressed by Percy, either. I think Jean´s portrayal lately has been so dismal people are excited that Percy has her use her tk. Quentin seems to be the protagonist of this book. He gets his girl Phoebe. I mean he gets killed all the time, but it still seems to be clear this is his book. Nothing wrong with that, but it still isn´t giving Jean a good showing. She´s called in to do telepathic scans Quentin or Phoebe Cuckoo or Sage could do. Percy had Jean decide she was too much of the good girl to really work with X-Force, so that means his idea of her is still stuck in the 1970s.

YUCK!

Its not about being stuck in the 70s; its about being true to the character. X-Force never made sense for Jean and for her to stay with it given the nature of the team and what they do, is completely out of character for her. She tried adn it wasnt for her. The Jean Grey I knew and love would not be cool with the stuff that Beast has done. She has compassion and casually killing any being is something that would affect her. Jean has always been the heart of the X-men and its refreshing to see that despite everything thats gone down, she still is