Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

**Devaishwarya** · 02-08-2021, 12:58 PM

I love Jean now...separate and far far removed from the Phoenix.

**Havok83** · 02-08-2021, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by WallStreeter

Different people love different things about the same character. Phoenix was not a compassionate person. Certainly not when she curb stomped her opponents like the U-Men, like Emma Frost, among many others.

The original Phoenix was meant to be the X-men´s first cosmic superhero, making Jean, an otherwise mediocre character, a person who could go toe to toe with the likes of Thor, Silver Surfer, or Dr. Strange.

Stan Lee´s 60s early women were passive, meek characters (Susan Storm, Wanda Maximoff, Jean Grey). Wanda is permanently out of that. I cannot wait until Jean is permanently out of that and permanently Phoenix-

Those women were basically weak girls, and as noted, fans as a hole do not like such characters.

Like I said characterization is a spectrum. There was more to Jean in the Morrison run than those two examples. She was multifaceted and this is a perfect example of a writer challenging her morals while keeping her grounded and compelling. There is more context that flesh these two actions out which is missing. Jean was compassionate towards Emma as immediately after that happened, she saved her life by putting her back together instead of being vengeful and spiteful. The U-men? That was self defense. She didnt do anything terrible them. They lived but had she done nothing they'd have killed the children, which they planned to do when they showed up at the front gates pointing guns at them

**Wiccan** · 02-08-2021, 06:56 PM

In other news, I got my question about Jean and Rachel answered on X-Men Monday! Kinda what I expected, but at least it's good to hear from an editor that there's no intentional separation of them and he sees them as being on good terms.

**Kitty&Piotr<3** · 02-08-2021, 09:33 PM

Originally Posted by Celestialbodies

In a handful of panels, Hickman displayed Logan/Kurt relationship so beautifully yet we don't get even half this kind of chemistry when Jean and Scott are together.

They aren't interesting together in that way, but then again even if they were, we probably wouldn't get that from Hix lol

Jean is just there to repeat whatever Scott's feelings are and make calls...so he can give his messages to even characters who aren't nearby lol

**Vishop** · 02-09-2021, 02:24 AM

Originally Posted by Celestialbodies

Hell since Jean and Scott got back together we haven't even had a moment between them that touches this one page:

In a handful of panels, Hickman displayed Logan/Kurt relationship so beautifully yet we don't get even half this kind of chemistry when Jean and Scott are together.

The very thing that worked during HoX/PoX is the journey leading up to that moment and everyone contributing towards it. Whereas XoS had "kid" Cable lol.

**Devaishwarya** · 02-09-2021, 04:45 AM

Jean and Scott's relationship has clearly developed beyond what it was under Claremont. It's certainly no longer soap-opera melodramatic and thank the Goddess for that. Going forward, when they form and lead the new official X-Men I hope we get something along the lines of Reed and Sue's relationship...more mature and "normal".

Also, I get the sense they're gradually moving Jott away from the poly-stuff and back to a more traditional relationship, which makes sense for these two, if they're going to co-lead.

**Vishop** · 02-09-2021, 05:26 AM

I don't know man. As far as I am concerned XoS was not anything more than some cheap melodrama and family soap opera between Scott and Jean + "Baby" Cable to help some helpless and useless x-friends against a bunch of fodders and I mean Arakko. Therefore I am sure it is nowhere near HoX/PoX stuff.

**Devaishwarya** · 02-09-2021, 05:38 AM

"Cheaper" than...

They fall in love....Jean dies...Scott leaves...Scott marries Jean's look-alike...Jean returns...Scott leaves Jean's look-alike and baby...Look-alike "dies" and baby is missing...Look-alike returns but evil...look-alike tries to sacrifice baby...Jean and her look-alike fight each other...Baby is given up for adoption...Jean and Scott marry...Marital issues...Scott "cheats"...Jean dies...Scott becomes involved with his "therapist"...?

**Vishop** · 02-09-2021, 05:52 AM

I haven't read a great deal of x-books related to them honestly. So I am not sure about how things were between them before Hickman. But then again I still have to agree to disagree because things weren't that thin over decades of writing.

**Devaishwarya** · 02-09-2021, 06:14 AM

They weren't "thin", just fraught with tedious emotional and physical melodrama. Poly-stuff aside, what Jean and Scott has shared in the HiX-era so far is refreshingly angst free.

**Triniking1234** · 02-09-2021, 06:46 AM

Originally Posted by Vishop

I don't know man. As far as I am concerned XoS was not anything more than some cheap melodrama and family soap opera between Scott and Jean + "Baby" Cable to help some helpless and useless x-friends against a bunch of fodders and I mean Arakko. Therefore I am sure it is nowhere near HoX/PoX stuff.

Apart from Cable's tie-ins and the climax, Scott and Jean barely show up. It's mostly Apocalypse dragging the X-Men into his mess and that Emma Frost wannabe being an ass for 10 issues.

**Vishop** · 02-09-2021, 07:21 AM

Originally Posted by Triniking1234

Apart from Cable's tie-ins and the climax, Scott and Jean barely show up. It's mostly Apocalypse dragging the X-Men into his mess and that Emma Frost wannabe being an ass for 10 issues.

You are right and that's the reason why I think those Cable tie-ins were so bad. It was ineffectual and felt so disconnected from the rest. The whole Apocalypse plot were just filler and badly characterized, even with Apocalypse.

**Askani's Flame** · 02-09-2021, 07:30 AM

Originally Posted by Wiccan

In other news, I got my question about Jean and Rachel answered on X-Men Monday! Kinda what I expected, but at least it's good to hear from an editor that there's no intentional separation of them and he sees them as being on good terms.

I asked the same question, almost verbatim. I was hopeful for more than the word vomit we got, but in essence his answer reads to me "yeah you just need to imagine them doing things together as we don't care to show them being a family together. But I think they like each other?"

**Rang10** · 02-09-2021, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by Askani's Flame

I asked the same question, almost verbatim. I was hopeful for more than the word vomit we got, but in essence his answer reads to me "yeah you just need to imagine them doing things together as we don't care to show them being a family together. But I think they like each other?"

Basically have to accept that they are a happy famiy and imagine them doing family things together.

Editorial really want to have the cake and eat it, leaving to readers have a rich imagination. They really put zero efforts on this new status.

Originally Posted by Vishop

You are right and that's the reason why I think those Cable tie-ins were so bad. It was ineffectual and felt so disconnected from the rest. The whole Apocalypse plot were just filler and badly characterized, even with Apocalypse.

It's all crappy writing.

**Devaishwarya** · 02-09-2021, 09:00 AM

Not every bit of interpersonal minutiae has to be shown in panel in every comic they appear together.
We know from previous eras and writers and comics that they've pretty much resolved any and all angst between them. Without seeing anything to suggest otherwise in the current run, it is safe to say that their relationship is an amicable and caring one.
We've just seen recently in this thread the 'receipts' to support this...what more proof do you need? How many more times must it be iterated that they are "good"?

These ae two adult women...how many more times must we see them hugging it out and calling each other "mother" and "daughter"?

Thread: Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

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