Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[Grinning Soul]

I just mentinoed in the WoX thread, that she threw a damn space station in PSX. Carrying a body is like a pillow in comparison

That one is really inexcusable. It'd be better if she had asked Rachel to move the body, so she wouldn't contaminate the evidence that might still be on Mags or something, since X-Factor is the official group who is investigating. And even that would be a bit of a stretch and it would serve only for bureaucratic purposes of keeping the investigation as pristine as possible.

All of this!


But also I wonder how long some have been following Jean, it used to be the joke of the month for the EIC, editors, and writers to disparage Jean and her contributions to the X-men for years. In regards to her abilities, personally Jean should be more equipped than she is, I know some will interpret that as me expecting her to be all powerful. But I genuinely can't understand how someone can be as powerful as Jean and trained by the most skilled telepath on the planet, and STILL be so ill-equipped to handle situation that should be within her abilities.


Moreover, the other omegas aren't nearly as handicapped in the usage of their powers as Jean has been before this era and certainly currently.

Jean is a very polarizing character, surrounded by many untruthful echo chambers about every aspect of hers. On top of that, some writers/editors really despise her. That's really it.

She's not the only character who suffers from it. But she's certainly one of the favourite targets.

And yes: I'm old. I remember very well what those 15+ years were like.

[Askani's Flame]

Leah’s Jean is trash. Sooo bad she needs Rachel’s help carrying magneto to the healing gardens and then needs Emma’s help to read his mind? But then she reads a part of it anyway? Wtf good riddance!!

She needs Rachel to get him to a location. Then she says she needs Emma's help for telepathy. But Rachel was a telepath ???? It starts with her tracking Wanda. I've already seen that this comic is going to be...

As other said it's not a slam against her that she needs Rachel's help but instead she wants Rachel's help. This is no different from when Rachel wanted assistance bringing Apocalypse and Sean into the Healing Gardens in Xof Swords. Do either Rachel or Jean NEED help lifting someone? No. But maybe it was an opportunity for her to have a connection point with Rachel - which we never really see. I will say on the positive side this now makes the second comic that Jean has spoken directly to Rachel on panel since the start of House of X so maybe it was Leah giving Jean and Rachel a moment. But all of our favorite characters have jobbed to someone else for "reasons", we just have to remember that Jean is clearly better than that as a whole and has had opportunities to show how powerful she is recently.

[mike7171]

yet only Jean and Quentin are omega telepaths. When you have every other telepath being capable of the things they do, it takes away from what makes them different

When Jean first did it, we all assumed she's the only other one who can do what Xavier does. I have no issue if Emma, Exodus, Rachel or even Legion can do it. As long as they are the top tier telepaths. Quentin might be too soon.

So I assume, whoever has good control Cerebro, they can all do it.

Also, asking for assistance does not mean incompetence, but more like delegating. Even Chief of Surgery in hospitals needs some input from its resident surgeons.

[Mercury]

Just posted this in the What would you do with and explore about your favorite X-character? thread. I figured I'd share it here to generate conversation regarding what we would like to see writers focus on regarding Jean, her life, and her legacy.

JEAN GREY

Core personality traits:

• Unapologetically assertive
• Deeply empathic
• Fiercely loyal
• Peerlessly self-sacrificing
• Immeasurably humble
• Unfathomably courageous
• The quintessential survivor

Firstly, I would dedicate another series to her and title it Jean Grey again. It could be either a limited or ongoing series and maybe include a subtitle like Epilogue, Aftermath, Grey Matters, or Beginnings and Endings. However, I prefer those as issue/chapter titles and would rather the series title be simply Jean Grey. The series would explore Jean's memories, thoughts, and feelings regarding her time-travels and resurrection, i.e., the events that took place throughout All-New X-Men, X-Men: Blue, X-Men: Red, and the arcs Phoenix: Resurrection, The Trial of Jean Grey, Battle of the Atom, Extermination, and any other relevant arcs and appearances from that period I have overlooked. Additionally, the series would delve deeper into the aftereffects of the most pivotal aspects and moments of her life as a whole, which include:

• Her time as Xavier's first student
• Discovering and being the first to establish contact with Scott Summers before the formation of the X-Men, perhaps touching upon the moment the Phoenix Force first became aware of her
• The time she spent training privately with Xavier after he entrusted her with his covert plan to fake his own death and the years she spent keeping his secret from the rest of the team
• Her first transcendental experience, which lasted over a demi-decade, after bonding with the Phoenix Force while piloting a doomed space shuttle to save the team
• The abuse and exploitation she endured at the hands of Mesmero, Mastermind, with the help of Emma Frost, and Mister Sinister, along with the resulting trauma
• The death of her sister, Sara Grey
• Her travels through various planes of existence as a result of experiencing and transcending multiple deaths
• The rest of her family, including Sara's children, and her discovery of their massacre at the hands of the Shi'ar Death Commandos
• Her relationships with her various children and stepchildren

Regarding her powers, I would like to see her abilities as revealed and displayed during her time displacement, i.e., sans the Phoenix Force, further explored. There was so much both revealed and only hinted at regarding her powers during this period. The fact that Jordan D. White confirmed she is still capable of what she did during this time warrants expounding upon her innate powers.

I could go on, but these are the areas of her life I would like to see explored deeply and sensitively. I believe there is so much to unpack here, which would spotlight how strong and how much of a survivor she truly is. She has been through a hell of a lot and, quite frankly, I don't know how she has managed to remain so caring and levelheaded throughout it all, but that's what I would like to find out.


I might add more later.

[Grinning Soul]

As other said it's not a slam against her that she needs Rachel's help but instead she wants Rachel's help. This is no different from when Rachel wanted assistance bringing Apocalypse and Sean into the Healing Gardens in Xof Swords. Do either Rachel or Jean NEED help lifting someone? No. But maybe it was an opportunity for her to have a connection point with Rachel - which we never really see. I will say on the positive side this now makes the second comic that Jean has spoken directly to Rachel on panel since the start of House of X so maybe it was Leah giving Jean and Rachel a moment. But all of our favorite characters have jobbed to someone else for "reasons", we just have to remember that Jean is clearly better than that as a whole and has had opportunities to show how powerful she is recently.

If Leah wanted to have a bonding moment between Jean and Rachel, she could have used a panel of X-Factor for it. There were plenty of panels that were reserved for characters interactions. I even asked for it before.

But, I'm sorry, I can't excuse the portrayal of Jean's inability to do stuff on her own by comparing it with Rachel because poor Rachel has suffered even worst than Jean.

Have a look at this:


X-Factor #1

- Rachel: >Sigh< Everybody always forgets about my chrono-skimming...




Apparently, she forgets herself she has it, and needs to be reminded by the leader of the team, some issues later:


X-Factor #5

- Jean-Paul: Again.
- Rachel: Northstar, my telepathy isn't hit or miss. If I said I couldn't find anything definitive, then it means there was nothing to find.
- Jean-Paul: Fair Enough. Try your chronoskimming this time?
- Rachel: Good idea.



And that's not the first time, in this Krakoan era, that a man has to remind her of what she can do:


X-Men #2

- Scott: Rachel! Krakoa must be close by now and we're not getting anywhere this way. We need to be able to talk to him.
- Rachel: We tried, remember?
- Scott: Yes... But you've helped downloading Krakoan into every mutant's mind when they get to the island, right?
- Rachel: Right. Good idea. I should've thought of that.



I believe I can rest my case here.


--

That being said, at this point, who knows what Leah actually wrote of this story? I don't want to blame her without knowing how much it was edited. That's why I referred to it as "the portrayal of Jean in ToM" (post #6643).

[Celestialbodies]

I'll leave this here, we as fans should be concerned about how Jean is used by other writers especially concurrently. Way too often she's used as an incapable powerset, and expecting writers to actually understand the character isn't asking a lot.


Duggan has been a breathe of fresh air because his Jean feels like a character to me. However, XMR is a perfect example of just because Jean is used well in a main title. Doesn't mean she'll be treated with respect elsewhere, following that era she spent A LOT of time struggling with her powers.


"The id is a lawless place, I'd need Emma's help", really Williams, really?

[Mercury]

...we as fans should be concerned about how Jean is used by other writers especially concurrently. Way too often she's used as an incapable powerset, and expecting writers to actually understand the character isn't asking a lot.

The writers that are guilty of portraying her as incapable seem to fall into two camps: those that simply dislike her as a character and purposefully choose to undermine her, usually in favor of their own favorite character(s), and those that are massively misinformed regarding her history and abilities. As I implied earlier in this thread, I will breathe through this and seek solace in knowing that Jean has endured nearly twice as long as some of these writers have been alive, and she has survived much worse than what they can throw at her.

Duggan has been a breathe of fresh air because his Jean feels like a character to me. However, XMR is a perfect example of just because Jean is used well in a main title. Doesn't mean she'll be treated with respect elsewhere, following that era she spent A LOT of time struggling with her powers.

Duggan has been a breath of fresh air, and I try and let him know that on Twitter every chance I get. I've also shared all aspects of her history with him. Until now, he has yet to block me (I know of a few Jean fans he's blocked) and has even responded to and liked a few of my tweets. The best thing we can do as fans is to encourage and inform those creatives who are charged with handling Jean, and express our gratitude when they render her accurately.

"The id is a lawless place, I'd need Emma's help", really Williams, really?

A few months ago she raided the mind of a demon god but she can't handle Magneto? Chiiile...

Also:

[PyroFN]

I'll leave this here, we as fans should be concerned about how Jean is used by other writers especially concurrently. Way too often she's used as an incapable powerset, and expecting writers to actually understand the character isn't asking a lot.


Duggan has been a breathe of fresh air because his Jean feels like a character to me. However, XMR is a perfect example of just because Jean is used well in a main title. Doesn't mean she'll be treated with respect elsewhere, following that era she spent A LOT of time struggling with her powers.


"The id is a lawless place, I'd need Emma's help", really Williams, really?

So you don’t think the human mind can be an unreliable narrator? You don’t think Magento, who has a history of resisting powerful psychics would make it difficult for Jean to do what she needs in a timely manner? You don’t think Jean simply wants Emma’s help for efficiency?

It’s not a jab at Jean’s capabilities to need help every so often. Depending on the mind one can encounter can determine how long it takes for a telepath to do what they need. Jean isn’t doing something as simple as reading a mind. She has to interpret subconscious thoughts while the man is asleep. That can be interpreted as his dreams, which can be as abstract as one wants, depending on the person. Don’t blow it so out-of-proportion. Jean asking for Emma’s help is not saying Jean is incapable.

The writers that are guilty of portraying her as incapable seem to fall into two camps: those that simply dislike her as a character and purposefully choose to undermine her, usually in favor of their own favorite character(s), and those that are massively misinformed regarding her history and abilities. As I implied earlier in this thread, I will breathe through this and seek solace in knowing that Jean has endured nearly twice as long as some of these writers have been alive, and she has survived much worse than what they can throw at her.



Duggan has been a breath of fresh air, and I try and let him know that on Twitter every chance I get. I've also shared all aspects of her history with him. Until now, he has yet to block me (I know of a few Jean fans he's blocked) and has even responded to and liked a few of my tweets. The best thing we can do as fans is to encourage and inform those creatives who are charged with handling Jean, and express our gratitude when they render her accurately.



A few months ago she raided the mind of a demon god but she can't handle Magneto? Chiiile...

Also:

Jean was not inferring that she couldn’t read his mind. She was inferring that his subconscious mind is not a reliable narrator. Don’t you think calling it a “lawless place” should infer just how convoluted it is to interpret? This is akin to one person saying “I am hungry” and another person saying “I need this boiled egg for something”. You can get a straight answer from one, but can interpret many things from the other.

[Mercury]

Jean was not inferring that she couldn’t read his mind. She was inferring that his subconscious mind is not a reliable narrator. Don’t you think calling it a “lawless place” should infer just how convoluted it is to interpret? This is akin to one person saying “I am hungry” and another person saying “I need this boiled egg for something”. You can get a straight answer from one, but can interpret many things from the other.

Jean has been perpetrated on by some of the most deviant, dangerous, and disgusting mutants and lived to tell those tales. She has also raided the minds of many of them, most recently, as I noted, a demon god. Furthermore, she has been host and hostage to a cosmic force whose raison dêtre is partly to bring chaos and destruction, and which has repeatedly tempted her at the core of her very being with surrendering to lawlessness with aplomb and total abandon. She has an intimate and experiential understanding of how minds like Magneto's - and, quite frankly, minds far darker - think and operate. She could've easily handled sifting through his psyche on her own.

[Havok83]

The fact that Jean needs Emma in order to sift through Magneto's head when he's not wearing a helmet makes no sense. Like she doesnt even try. She's like, nah I cant do that. Let me get help

[PyroFN]

Jean has been perpetrated on by some of the most deviant, dangerous, and disgusting mutants and lived to tell those tales. She has also raided the minds of many of them, most recently, as I noted, a demon god. Furthermore, she has been host and hostage to a cosmic force whose raison dêtre is partly to bring chaos and destruction, and which has repeatedly tempted her at the core of her very being with surrendering to lawlessness with aplomb and total abandon. She has an intimate and experiential understanding of how minds like Magneto's - and, quite frankly, minds far darker - think and operate. She could've easily handled sifting through his psyche on her own.

Strife does not equate to mindless ramble or incoherence. Jean can look at a mind that is nonsense all she likes, but she is not gonna interpret everything the way Cypher could interpret language immediately. It takes her time to rearrange the memories of an alien being and reconstruct it. It took her and Charles Xavier time to create mental labyrinth in Wolverines mind. It takes time that Jean does not have to interpret the mind of a psychotic omega level mutant that nearly killed her and the other X-Men who could have possibly murdered his own daughter.

You’re taking it as “Jean can’t handle it”. Have a little more perspective at what’s possible. Jean is a powerful Omega. Possibly up there with the most powerful in existence, but she is not infallible. She needs time and she needs help every so often. It doesn’t diminish her, so don’t treat it as if it does.

[Tank]

The fact that Jean needs Emma in order to sift through Magneto's head when he's not wearing a helmet makes no sense. Like she doesnt even try. She's like, nah I cant do that. Let me get help

This is not the same Jean who telepathically made Magento believed he killed Dazzler or threw Mellancamp 700 miles. Nope. Hell teen jean had a better time with Magneto then this Leah’s Jean.

Leah’s Jean is straight up awful. The storyline is not great either with Mags and Polaris also acting out of character so at least Leah’s consistent.

[PyroFN]

This is not the same Jean who telepathically made Magento believed he killed Dazzler or threw Mellancamp 700 miles. Nope. Hell teen jean had a better time with Magneto then this Leah’s Jean.

Leah’s Jean is straight up awful. The storyline is not great either with Mags and Polaris also acting out of character so at least Leah’s consistent.

First off, Jean had prep to deal with Magneto in Eve of Destruction and she was producing an illusion to a conscious Magneto. Magneto was full and willing to allow Teen Jean in his head.

Neither situation are the same situation as the one Jean is in Trial of Magneto. Tell me how logical a dream can be when the dead appear, a person can fly, or reality twists and turns in it. It’s a nonsensical place where anything can be seen. Dream interpretation do exist, but no person’s dreams are one for one. Everyone is their own individual and Jean asking Emma for help is not a jab at her. We shouldn’t be taking this as a detraction to Jean. We should be realistically looking at what Jean has to do in the task and looking at what Jean would be dealing with there. Not seeing,

“Jean just has to read his mind and done.”

[Havok83]

First off, Jean had prep to deal with Magneto in Eve of Destruction and she was producing an illusion to a conscious Magneto. Magneto was full and willing to allow Teen Jean in his head.

Neither situation are the same situation as the one Jean is in Trial of Magneto. Tell me how logical a dream can be when the dead appear, a person can fly, or reality twists and turns in it. It’s a nonsensical place where anything can be seen. Dream interpretation do exist, but no person’s dreams are one for one. Everyone is their own individual and Jean asking Emma for help is not a jab at her. We shouldn’t be taking this as a detraction to Jean. We should be realistically looking at what Jean has to do in the task and looking at what Jean would be dealing with there. Not seeing,

“Jean just has to read his mind and done.”

She's a telepath; he's not. She should be able to see whats real. It makes no sense that she doesnt look into his memories. Heck, Cerebro backs it up and she can just go to that without having to deal with Magneto's subconcious. Its contrived BS

[Daedra]

First off, Jean had prep to deal with Magneto in Eve of Destruction and she was producing an illusion to a conscious Magneto. Magneto was full and willing to allow Teen Jean in his head.

Neither situation are the same situation as the one Jean is in Trial of Magneto. Tell me how logical a dream can be when the dead appear, a person can fly, or reality twists and turns in it. It’s a nonsensical place where anything can be seen. Dream interpretation do exist, but no person’s dreams are one for one. Everyone is their own individual and Jean asking Emma for help is not a jab at her. We shouldn’t be taking this as a detraction to Jean. We should be realistically looking at what Jean has to do in the task and looking at what Jean would be dealing with there. Not seeing,

“Jean just has to read his mind and done.”

Can Jean for once just do her thing without requiring handholding-fainting-crutches of any sort…….. it’s tp , it’s her omega field, why is it so hard for these writer to let this character do her job?
Can’t believe how boring they are making her powers….. oh well….I have given up …..I’ll just shut up for the rest of the month!