Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[Phoenixx9]

So is the plot for Jean to be the villain?

[Mercury]

Again, how will Wanda do so without the speed to contend with Jean? You didn’t even bring something to combat the speed. You just brought in Wanda reality warping a town as if Wanda would be able to do before Jean outspeeds Wanda with a Tk maneuver.

Not only that, but we literally see the Phoenix Force destroy a planet and Vuk explain with Jean’s bond to it, she bring creation back to an entire planet.



Your best response is Wanda manipulating a town when Jean stomps Xavier amped by Cerebro, device that increases his range to casual planetary levels and connects his mind to every other kind on the planet, literally in her sleep? No sane individual is thinking Wanda wins that fight unless Jean sits there and let’s Wanda take the first shot.

Here are your requirements to prove your case:

1) Wanda needs the speed of reacting to something as fast as lightning and Fox Quicksilver.

2) Wanda needs power feats on par with a character of at least planetary+.

3) Wanda needs defense feats that can take the force of a building explosion at minimum and a planet at maximum.

Only then will you have anything worth of conversation on this subject.

You’re saying everything I wanted to say. Also, we haven’t even discussed Jean’s telepathic speed and capacity, which are light years beyond anything Wanda could handle. Jean could just shut her mind down before they even get to a point of throwing down.

[andreikes]

Jean and Emma logically should start the Inferno saga, considering they will have access to Magneto's mind. But as it goes, maybe only Emma has that perception. Considering it's Hickman and Leah, capable of her passing out and only waking up after the saga

[Spiderfan001]

Again, how will Wanda do so without the speed to contend with Jean? You didn’t even bring something to combat the speed. You just brought in Wanda reality warping a town as if Wanda would be able to do before Jean outspeeds Wanda with a Tk maneuver.

Not only that, but we literally see the Phoenix Force destroy a planet and Vuk explain with Jean’s bond to it, she bring creation back to an entire planet.



Your best response is Wanda manipulating a town when Jean stomps Xavier amped by Cerebro, device that increases his range to casual planetary levels and connects his mind to every other kind on the planet, literally in her sleep? No sane individual is thinking Wanda wins that fight unless Jean sits there and let’s Wanda take the first shot.

Here are your requirements to prove your case:

1) Wanda needs the speed of reacting to something as fast as lightning and Fox Quicksilver.

2) Wanda needs power feats on par with a character of at least planetary+.

3) Wanda needs defense feats that can take the force of a building explosion at minimum and a planet at maximum.

Only then will you have anything worth of conversation on this subject.

I do think Phoenix Jean takes this mid diff but I think I can add something here

1)She stops Tommy dead in his tracks when speeding casually while not even looking.

2)The town thing, ripping apart vibranium casually.Destroying an infinity stone(in Vision so emotionally broken as well) while holding back Thanos.
Also Phoenix was shown to do that stuff IIRC, did Jean actually do it?Statements wise Wanda is stronger than the Sorcerer Supreme, not that statements mean much.

3)She hasn't been hit w/ much so I can't remember any notable ones.

Also "manipulating" is not true, she was reality warping them both physically and mentally.That's a much bigger feat.

[Mercury]

Jean doesn’t need the Phoenix Force to defeat Wanda. Her telepathy would allow her to shut it down before it even begins.

[Spiderfan001]

I'm not arguing who wins, just that the PyroFN said he wanted feats to make a conversation and I happen to remember them.
Also Wanda has TP in the MCU, although Jean has better speed, right?
She did control an entire squad of guards with a single flick while holding up the hex.And the explosion feat from CW.
Also TP strong enough to work on Agatha and if anyone has TP resistance in the MCU, it's her.

[PyroFN]

I do think Phoenix Jean takes this mid diff but I think I can add something here

1)She stops Tommy dead in his tracks when speeding casually while not even looking.

2)The town thing, ripping apart vibranium casually.Destroying an infinity stone(in Vision so emotionally broken as well) while holding back Thanos.
Also Phoenix was shown to do that stuff IIRC, did Jean actually do it?Statements wise Wanda is stronger than the Sorcerer Supreme, not that statements mean much.

3)She hasn't been hit w/ much so I can't remember any notable ones.

Also "manipulating" is not true, she was reality warping them both physically and mentally.That's a much bigger feat.

1) Tommy isn’t comparable to Fox Quicksilver. Not yet anyways. Jean still ranks as far faster than Wanda.

2) I ain’t saying Wanda is a slouch. I’m saying her force field feats don’t display that she can shield from someone outputting the feats Jean was.

3) We see hints of her subatomic manipulation when she repairs her own wounds subconsciously and repairing Scott’s hand after accidentally atomizing pieces of it. Add the fact that she literally destroys her body at the end of the movie and that Wolverine sees Jean in the flesh at the end of Days of Future Past, it’s pretty apparent that manipulating matter on the subatomic scale is within her powerset.

4) Wanda has been hit plenty and we have seen her limits expressed before. It is not a mid difference fight between Jean and Wanda. She barely slows a falling air control tower, she struggles fighting Proxima Midnight, and she struggled fighting Agatha Harkness.

5) No, it’s not a bigger feat. It’s literally town size in scale. You can argue it’s more potent, but even that is wrong when considering Jean can literally deconstruct her entire body and recreate it from scratch. Vuk already explained the Phoenix power output is far larger than a town and we know Jean has a grasp on her powers by the end of Dark Phoenix.





This is not a knock on Wanda’s abilities. It is putting into perspective Wanda’s actual capabilities without blowing into proportion just because we have the word “reality warping” involved. Few people bother to ask how they expect Wanda to use those abilities.

I will say this, you made a better case than most do.

[Mercury]

This "Jean Grey vs Wanda" tweet is sure making the rounds...

https://twitter.com/nacaomarveI/stat...81151300067329

[Daedra]

As a fan of WANDA, JEAN and ORORO I learned that trouble it’s always a couple of clicks away while browsing the boards

[andreikes]

But there will always be these fan battles. Especially now with UCM. Jean Grey (cosmic entity) X Wanda (Nexus) X Storm (goddess). In the end what matters is that Jean beats them all up to One Above All (just kidding). Guys love to treat like pop diva hahaha

[WallStreeter]

Again, how will Wanda do so without the speed to contend with Jean? You didn’t even bring something to combat the speed. You just brought in Wanda reality warping a town as if Wanda would be able to do before Jean outspeeds Wanda with a Tk maneuver.

Not only that, but we literally see the Phoenix Force destroy a planet and Vuk explain with Jean’s bond to it, she bring creation back to an entire planet.



Your best response is Wanda manipulating a town when Jean stomps Xavier amped by Cerebro, device that increases his range to casual planetary levels and connects his mind to every other kind on the planet, literally in her sleep? No sane individual is thinking Wanda wins that fight unless Jean sits there and let’s Wanda take the first shot.

Here are your requirements to prove your case:

1) Wanda needs the speed of reacting to something as fast as lightning and Fox Quicksilver.

2) Wanda needs power feats on par with a character of at least planetary+.

3) Wanda needs defense feats that can take the force of a building explosion at minimum and a planet at maximum.

Only then will you have anything worth of conversation on this subject.

Comic book Phoenix/Jean got killed by Xorn posing as Magneto. She is not invincible. Of course if the writers in Dr. Strange 2 decide Wanda after reading the Darkhold can take her own, then obviously that is what will happen. Whoever the writers want to win, will win.

[Spiderfan001]

But there will always be these fan battles. Especially now with UCM. Jean Grey (cosmic entity) X Wanda (Nexus) X Storm (goddess). In the end what matters is that Jean beats them all up to One Above All (just kidding). Guys love to treat like pop diva hahaha

Aren't Wanda and Jean a bit above Ororo in power levels?

[Mercury]

Comic book Phoenix/Jean got killed by Xorn posing as Magneto. She is not invincible.

This always made no sense and seemed like a copout to me, especially considering that not only had she already been killed by Wolverine an issue or two before but also that the Phoenix Force resurrected and fully manifested through her. Somehow we are supposed to believe either Magneto or Xorn could kill a resurrected Phoenix Force-bonded Jean afterward? (Note: Morrison had always intended Xorn to be Magneto. Period.)

It seems to me that Morrison had bigger plans not just for Jean - just look at how reverentially he wrote for her, despite the Scott and Emma affair - but also for the entire team. However, his run ended abruptly due to editorial interference, and I firmly believe he decided to blow everything up - literally, lol - before his departure, which was unpleasant, to say the least.

My headcanon: After the Phoenix Force resurrected Jean and they weakened Magneto/Xorn to subvert his plans, they purposefully allowed him to kill her so that she could return to the White Hot Room to heal the "wounded orphan universe."

Of course if the writers in Dr. Strange 2 decide Wanda after reading the Darkhold can take her own, then obviously that is what will happen. Whoever the writers want to win will win.

You make a good point. 'Tis true, "whoever the writers want to win, will win."

Aren't Wanda and Jean a bit above Ororo in power levels?

If I allow myself to be totally objective about this, I would say they're equal to each other. Really, whether either defeats the others is more dependent on response time than on power levels. Speaking on behalf of Jean, if she strikes first and goes about ruthlessly defeating the other two, she could simultaneously cut the blood flow to both of their brains and forcefully shut down their minds, though doing this would probably cause irreparable damage.

Love her tenderness and self-awareness here. She looks badass in those 80s shades and that jumpsuit, too. From X-Factor #4:

[Grinning Soul]

X-Factor (especialy Louise Simonson's) Jean = awesomeness incarnate!

[Daedra]

Comic book Phoenix/Jean got killed by Xorn posing as Magneto. She is not invincible. Of course if the writers in Dr. Strange 2 decide Wanda after reading the Darkhold can take her own, then obviously that is what will happen. Whoever the writers want to win, will win.

To be fair to Jean SHE WAS GOING TO DIE in her immediate future and she knew it herself, sounds like it was inevitable, xorn was just a “pawn” in a bigger cosmic game