Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

God, I forgot that Jean's line there completely contradicts Rosenberg's later plan for Jean to be depressed and want to die again. Thank goodness he wasn't allowed to write X-Men Red and I can ignore the Astonishing Annual exists entirely.

He was allowed. He turned it down because he didn't want Jean to lead a team.

Shades of Byrne. Lol

[Mercury]

The beauty of this shot startled me.

[Vishop]

The beauty of this shot startled me.

Dekal is nigh....

[Mercury]

I wouldn't ordinarily share my birthday, but I just found out it's the same date as Jean's first death. And Anthony Oliveira just got adorable with me about it, lol. I can't...

[WallStreeter]

Two brothers and a sister.

Speaking of Jean's relatives, it surprises every day that the Grey twins haven't been revived yet. If they really wanted to tell a story about Scott and Jean as parents to kids/teens, they're right there with a mom who is presumably not resurrectable.

Give the woman a break! Isn’t Rachel and Cable enough?

When would she had time to be a superhero if those kids are brought back?

[WallStreeter]

I just love the Pink Phoenix. Can we please please please, pretty please, get the pink Phoenix as her regular Psy power signature?

Along with the code name Phoenix back to Jean. And end the Phoenix force nonsense in the Avengers.

[Exodus]

Along with the code name Phoenix back to Jean. And end the Phoenix force nonsense in the Avengers.

ok. Make it happen. You have my blessing! ;-)

[Thirteen]

60s and 70s Marvel had no women editors, writers, executives, artists. The teams back then had token representation of women.

By the 70s there were "few" women in those roles not "none"- off the top of my head, Louise Simonson (then Jones), Marie Severin, and Ann Nocenti were around by the mid to late 70s I believe. Still an underrepresentation but for accuracy purposes. And also WHAT must that have been like being the few women creators in that environment? There must be an article out there and if there's not, there should be. Especially in light of the cultural pivot that's happening in that arena.


Back to Jean

Byrne had Jean killed off because he did not think the team needed two powerful women and he hated the changes that happened in January when she became Phoenix.

Whats source on that? I've never read that it was Byrnes plan to kill Jean off. The BTS story that I've read all these years (PHOENIX:THE UNTOLD STORY etc) is that Editorial stepped in (Shooter) and demanded graver consequences to Byrne's artwork showing the death of the Asaragus people. Granted the planned ending would have effectively "killed" Phoenix as well (cosmically lobotomizing her). Granted there WAS a lot of push back from the male dominated editorial about how Cosmically Powerful Jean Phoenix was a allowed to be. The plan for her to take on and fight Silver Surfer to a draw IN X-MEN #105 was shifted to her instead fighting the lesser known Firelord, who, as a fellow Herald of Galactus, was a backend run at her going toe to toe with a Upperclass Cosmic character (so THERE!). Bonus points for getting in a reference that she hits as hard as THOR.

[PyroFN]

Give the woman a break! Isn’t Rachel and Cable enough?

When would she had time to be a superhero if those kids are brought back?

Lol, There are literally multiple babysitters on Krakoa. Jean would be fine either way.

[Spiderfan001]

Did she ever give birth to any kids?
I heard a joke that when Jean tells someone about her kids they say "that's one way to avoid stretch marks"IIRC.

[Mercury]

By the 70s there were "few" women in those roles not "none"- off the top of my head, Louise Simonson (then Jones), Marie Severin, and Ann Nocenti were around by the mid to late 70s I believe. Still an underrepresentation but for accuracy purposes. And also WHAT must that have been like being the few women creators in that environment? There must be an article out there and if there's not, there should be. Especially in light of the cultural pivot that's happening in that arena.

Agreed! A long-form article focused on this would be poignant, informative, and fascinating.

Whats source on that? I've never read that it was Byrnes plan to kill Jean off. The BTS story that I've read all these years (PHOENIX:THE UNTOLD STORY etc) is that Editorial stepped in (Shooter) and demanded graver consequences to Byrne's artwork showing the death of the Asaragus people. Granted the planned ending would have effectively "killed" Phoenix as well (cosmically lobotomizing her). Granted there WAS a lot of push back from the male dominated editorial about how Cosmically Powerful Jean Phoenix was a allowed to be. The plan for her to take on and fight Silver Surfer to a draw IN X-MEN #105 was shifted to her instead fighting the lesser known Firelord, who, as a fellow Herald of Galactus, was a backend run at her going toe to toe with a Upperclass Cosmic character (so THERE!). Bonus points for getting in a reference that she hits as hard as THOR.

I'm not sure I've read that Byrne wanted her dead, though Claremont and others have confirmed that he was instrumental in the former scaling her appearances down. It's no secret that Byrne was not a fan of Phoenix - he has admitted as much - because he felt she "overshadowed" the team. Also, I do remember reading somewhere (I can't remember where) that Claremont never included notes/directions to indicate that the planet that was destroyed after Dark Phoenix consumed the sun be populated. I distinctly remember Claremont admitting that he was surprised to see that detail when he received Byrne's pages. Additionally, I rewatched the Claremont documentary on Amazon Prime, and apparently, it was Louise Simonson who wrote the caption to that scene specifying that the D'Bari perished.

Also, thank you for reminding me of the line about Thor. And to think, that was all Jean's power, i.e., the Phoenix Force didn't increase her power; it expanded and deepened her "perception of how those powers work."

[Thirteen]

. And to think, that was all Jean's power, i.e., the Phoenix Force didn't increase her power; it expanded and deepened her "perception of how those powers work."

That "perception of how those powers work" concept (from X-Men Forever) is a drum that started beating decades after the depicted scene and the original run of Jean Phoenix. And hasn't been mentioned since that effort to re-re-re-retcon Jean as Phoenix and the concept of the Phoenix Force.
At the time written Jean became Phoenix in the same way that the Fantastic Four gained their powers, only exponentially so because she already had a power set for the Cosmic Rays to impregnate and increase.

[Mercury]

That "perception of how those powers work" concept (from X-Men Forever) is a drum that started beating decades after the depicted scene and the original run of Jean Phoenix. And hasn't been mentioned since that effort to re-re-re-retcon Jean as Phoenix and the concept of the Phoenix Force.
At the time written Jean became Phoenix in the same way that the Fantastic Four gained their powers, only exponentially so because she already had a power set for the Cosmic Rays to impregnate and increase.

At the time written (by Claremont), the Phoenix (it wasn’t even a “Force”) was simply a consequence - the culmination and manifestation - of Jean achieving her “full potential as a psi,” as stated in this panel from Uncanny X-Men #125:



So, anything that deviates from that is the retcon.

Furthermore, as evidenced throughout the past several years, most recently in Phoenix Resurrection and Jean Grey, Jean does have the power to subvert the Phoenix Force’s intentions and desires, going as far as ripping it out of people and dominating it from within the White Hot Room prior to ever bonding with or being possessed by it.

[Harpsikord]

Give the woman a break! Isn’t Rachel and Cable enough?

When would she had time to be a superhero if those kids are brought back?

If Susan Storm has enough time to raise two kids and be a superhero so does Jean, sheesh.

Being a parent is clearly important to Jean. She wanted to raise Nathan until she couldn't. Just let her have it.

[Subliminally]

The beauty of this shot startled me.

One more reason Storm and Jean are sisters, some artists can never get their eye color correct. But other than that this image is stellar!