Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[Mercury]

I can neither lift up nor put down Jean or any other character.

Actually, you very much can. And it seems that you choose to do the latter when it comes to Jean quite often. But, then again, you admit this yourself:

That said, I have definitely bashed her portrayals and usage in the most recent comics...

It's good that you admit it.

As for her "leading" the X-Men, she is the leader only if the *actual* leader, the Captain Commander, chooses to defer to her. Cyclops was always going to be the X-Men leader because he is a big deal.. Jean is there for shipping..

Thank you for posting this article in the above links:

AIPT: OK, X-Fan marvelfan1992 asked if the idea of having Scott and Jean lead an X-Men team was developed in the early stages of Jonathan’s planning or if this was an idea that came together later on.

Jordan: Not specifically, like, “And then step 27, Scott and Jean lead the X-Men.” Like, no, not like that. I mean, I’m sure that Jonathan was like, “Well, obviously at some point we’ll have an X-Men team and the natural choice to lead would be this person, this person, or that person,” you know? But I think the reason it actually turned to the two of them — much like I’ve said this a bunch of times when we talk about the way things have developed — Jonathan’s plans shift to accommodate what everybody else is doing and to incorporate what everybody else is doing. I think that a big part of why Scott and Jean are leading the X-Men together is, well, to be fair, Jonathan started the family-oriented concept of Cyclops in his current life.

And then Gerry really ran with it in Cable. We got to see Scott and Jean as a couple — well, as parents really, and then as a couple doing stuff. And I think that the way that played out in X of Swords is what really sealed the deal as the two of them are making decisions based on the fact that their son is in danger and their moral compass is what lead them to say there needs to be an X-Men and we’re making it happen. And so I think that’s the real reason. And I think in a sense that could have just as easily, you know, if the stories of the last couple of years had gone differently, I think there could have been a version where it’s just Jean doing it, or it’s just Scott doing it, or whoever — Colossus is like, “There has to be an X-Men.”

And I mean, again, it makes sense that it’s Scott, because Jonathan put a lot of focus on Scott at the beginning of his run. And so I think in that sense, yeah, I think he always knew Scott’s going to be the one to do stuff because he’s a big deal in the history of the X-Men, but the way it happened, and the fact that it’s him and Jean together for sure is because of how it played out in X of Swords.

White seems to make sure to underscore that they are leading the team together and speaks nothing of Scott being the "Commander and Chief" or of Jean only being a leader if he "chooses to defer to her." Then again, this isn't the first time you've mischaracterized White's words to undermine Jean. Nevertheless, never forget who Hickman gave such a pivotal moment to... who actually said the words:

Also, how many comments a character thread has says nothing about the stories. Jean got booted out of the heavier/more serious book due to shipping while Emma steps in to deal with the mess Jean was portrayed as too delicate to handle.

Oh, it certainly says a lot. It says that no matter what Emma has been given to do in no matter how many books, people are simply not that interested in her, past or present, to be honest. In fact, I've seen quite a few people complain about her being shoehorned into every storyline. Keep in mind, I have shared no opinion on the matter. In either case, the queens of this board are Storm and Jean. As it should be, quite frankly. It's great that Emma is getting her spot in the limelight - she's gotten it before - but I wouldn't consider that a sign of anything other than Hickman being fond of her.

I'd take Jean being involved in a tense plot over us reposting old art and scans of good moments from the past, if post count is somehow influencing things.

Interesting that you belittle "reposting old art and scans of good moments from the past" when you pine for her to be thrown back into a 45-year-old suit, lol. I do apologize if I'm being harsh, but I have been told by more than one member in private that there are stealth Jean detractors who post in here pretending to be fans. When I was first told that, I laughed and thought, "You're crazy!"...

Thank you, it’s good to know I’m not the only one having these thoughts.

...I'm starting to believe it.

[Mercury]

Why, now, here I go again posting moments from the glory days. I simply can't help myself!

Jean and Scarlet teaming up against Daredevil. :chef's kiss: From Avengers #111:



From Marvel Team-Up #4:

[Mercury]

And these panels showcasing "Marvel Mama" from Captain America #173 and #174 are simply delicious!



God, I love her...





Such a varied and interesting history our First Lady of the X-Men has.

[GeneTitan]

I live for Mercury's receipts of Jean and the overall stanning.

[Daedra]

...I'm starting to believe it.

I appreciate all the art posting, it’s very welcome and should be the core of the respect thread, I’m just bitter over some elements of this hickman era in relation to Jean and some times I have a hard time sharing in other poster’s enthusiasm.

[andreikes]

She should have punched him for "stealing" a kiss

[Mercury]

I live for Mercury's receipts of Jean and the overall stanning.

I do it all for fans like you, love! ❤️

She should have punched him for "stealing" a kiss

She should have. Still, I would probably let Spidey kiss me, too. Did you catch her little smirk in the last panel?

[Mercury]

This lewk...

Class is in session.

[Phoenixx9]

She should have punched him for "stealing" a kiss

Yes, I agree, except Jean is not like that. And, he could have kissed Bobby too.

[Mercury]

Deep f*cking takes:

[Phoenixx9]

This lewk...

Class is in session.

Yes, what a great Mansion Wear outfit!

[Mercury]

Again, deep f*cking takes. Separate issue:

[Phoenixx9]

"Marvel Mama" was so 60's, lol! I only heard Jean referenced as that the one time by the Falcon.

[PyroFN]

Thank you for posting this article in the above links:



White seems to make sure to underscore that they are leading the team together and speaks nothing of Scott being the "Commander and Chief" or of Jean only being a leader if he "chooses to defer to her." Then again, this isn't the first time you've mischaracterized White's words to undermine Jean. Nevertheless, never forget who Hickman gave such a pivotal moment to... who actually said the words:

On this matter, I think the best way to determine the path Jean will be walking in regards to leadership if interviews are broaching worry is to look at what the source material portrays. It’s only two issues, but it is something,



I’m pretty sure telling Rogue to do a fly-by is not her call to make if she were not a co-leader. Or telling the X-Men to meet her at the plane.



If Jean has to defer to Cyclops leadership, she is stepping out-of-line a lot and getting no lip from Scott about her overstepping, which given their relationship, would not bother her to be told to step back. She would know he is the leader and would gladly allow him to take the reins if this was the dynamic. This should especially come into play when Jean says that they have to change plans all of a sudden.



It looks to be as Jordan described. We will get moments where they individually take the lead, which is shown how neither veto each other’s commands to the team and with how often the team defers to them about an idea being okay.

[Phoenixx9]

I love Jean's powerful arms in the End scans.