Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[Mercury]

Meh, for me the Jean/Scott romance will forever be undermined by the fact that editorial decided that just having her around was undermining Cyclops' masculinity, and that they needed to replace her with a more subservient, teen fantasy type girlfriend that wouldn't be liable to cuckold him at any moment with a certain hairy midget. Can't really hit the reset button on that whole thing, especially given how long it went on for.

But mama is still iconic, legendary, desired, and powerful! And that is all that matters. She long ago transcended Scott. I mean, who was it that recently - less than five years ago, in fact - had her own series and went on to lead a team in a flagship title focused on her?

I sense great things for her coming within the next 1-3 years.

EDIT: As I tweeted recently...

Jean Grey has been repeatedly killed, cloned, abused, i.e., raped, resurrected, has had her entire family murdered, her marriage trampled on, & has been unwillingly time-displaced, all while having a complicated relationship with a cosmic force that sees her as its true vessel...

Frankly, this is why I love her: Her inspiring and breathtaking ability to survive and transcend such levels of pain and adversity while remaining pure of heart.

Jean will survive and transcend us all.

[PwrdOn]

But mama is still iconic, legendary, desired, and powerful! And that is all that matters. She long ago transcended Scott. I mean, who was it that recently - less than five years ago, in fact - had her own series and went on to lead a team in a flagship title focused on her?

I sense great things for her coming within the next 1-3 years.

EDIT: As I tweeted recently...



Jean will survive and transcend us all.

Oh yeah, if anything this diminished Cyclops because it just showed that he needed to be editorially protected to have any chance of looking cool, whereas Jean somehow managed to emerge from limbo mostly unscathed. I suppose she is like Dre in that respect, when you diss Jean you just diss yourself.

[Mercury]

I suppose she is like Dre in that respect, when you diss Jean you just diss yourself.

Love this!

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Meh, for me the Jean/Scott romance will forever be undermined by the fact that editorial decided that just having her around was undermining Cyclops' masculinity, and that they needed to replace her with a more subservient, teen fantasy type girlfriend that wouldn't be liable to cuckold him at any moment with a certain hairy midget. Can't really hit the reset button on that whole thing, especially given how long it went on for.

This. Also, writers routinely having him parade around with her powers and trying to skew the Phoenix story to be about him doesn't help. That's why I don't expect much for Jean from writers that are big into Cycloos. First X-Men thing Hickman did in the 616 was to give Cyclops a Phoenix egg. My eyes nearly rolled out of my head.

[Mercury]

First X-Men thing Hickman did in the 616 was to give Cyclops a Phoenix egg. My eyes nearly rolled out of my head.

What is issue was this? And...

What does it mean...?

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

What is issue was this? And...

What does it mean...?

It was just before Secret Wars, I don't remember what comic.

But that's how I knew early on that Hickman would not be for Jean fans.

[Mercury]

It was just before Secret Wars, I don't remember what comic.

But that's how I knew early on that Hickman would not be for Jean fans.

First, what does having a Phoenix egg even mean? Also, considering that Echo is the host now, does he still have said egg? Second, I know Hickman hasn't been the best writer for Jean, but can we at least appreciate that he gave her stellar moments, such as her Giant-Size issue in which he clearly highlighted that she was the more adept telepath, even though Emma was there (obviously, one of his favorite characters), and when he had her be the first to step down from the QC, reject their offer for reappointment, and form and announce the new team?

To be clear, I am not trying to filter your thoughts or what you have to say as much as I am looking and urging you, as a fan, to look at the positives and bright side of things. She's in a great place right now as a character. She's in a flagship book, co-leading a new team, and being written with dignity and respect and drawn for the gods. I can only see things looking up for her. Perhaps the upside of her having, for the most part, taken a backseat during Hickman's era is that things have lined up for her to be increasingly central, which is the feeling I get when I read the X-Men reboot.

[Starchilde]

What is issue was this? And...

What does it mean...?

He told Roberto that he had a Phoenix Egg in Hickman's Avengers (issue 38). I dont know if it was explained how he managed to get it? as far as I can't remember, it wasn't really explained right?

[Mercury]

He told Roberto that he had a Phoenix Egg in Hickman's Avengers (issue 38). I dont know if it was explained how he managed to get it? as far as I can't remember, it wasn't really explained right?

But what the hell does that mean?!



Also, does he still have it?

In either case, has Jean ever needed a "Phoenix egg" to call on the ol' firebird? Now that I think of it, I'm glad they haven't complicated her relationship with it by throwing in eggs and god knows what else 😂

[Daedra]

Meh, for me the Jean/Scott romance will forever be undermined by the fact that editorial decided that just having her around was undermining Cyclops' masculinity, and that they needed to replace her with a more subservient, teen fantasy type girlfriend that wouldn't be liable to cuckold him at any moment with a certain hairy midget. Can't really hit the reset button on that whole thing, especially given how long it went on for.

This. Also, writers routinely having him parade around with her powers and trying to skew the Phoenix story to be about him doesn't help. That's why I don't expect much for Jean from writers that are big into Cycloos. First X-Men thing Hickman did in the 616 was to give Cyclops a Phoenix egg. My eyes nearly rolled out of my head.

Sometimes when I think of the incredible amount of garbage we had to endure while Jean was dead I marvel at my own patience……….I doubt I will ever appreciate her relationship with Scott again.

[ExodusCloak]

But what the hell does that mean?!



Also, does he still have it?

In either case, has Jean ever needed a "Phoenix egg" to call on the ol' firebird? Now that I think of it, I'm glad they haven't complicated her relationship with it by throwing in eggs and god knows what else ��

The cacoon under the sea where the real Jeans body was healing is the Phoenix Egg. And then in Here Comes Tommorrow she hatched out of it.

Morrison came up with the egg thing that retconed the cacoon into an egg. Which in itself was a retcon. Anyway its too messy and too much inconsistency. Its like one of the least appealing things to try and dissect.

[Starchilde]

But what the hell does that mean?!



Also, does he still have it?

In either case, has Jean ever needed a "Phoenix egg" to call on the ol' firebird? Now that I think of it, I'm glad they haven't complicated her relationship with it by throwing in eggs and god knows what else ��

The Phoenix Egg is a concept introduced by Morrison. It's an egg that appears when the Phoenix is destroyed, for the Phoenix to be born again. In Here Comes Tomorrow by Morrison, remember when Beast-Sublime hatched an stolen egg and Jean as Phoenix was born from it? That's the first time the term was used. So, what I get from that story, is that when Jean was killed by Xorneto, the Phoenix got "destroyed" and then reborn into the Egg.

Then Hickman used the concept again in Avengers, after AvX. We can say that the thing Hope and Wanda did in AvX kinda destroyed the Phoenix, so it was reborn in the Phoenix Egg again. I don't know how Scott got it tho. He does not have it anymore, he used it in Secret Wars, and become Phoenix himself again.

But it's still different, because in HCT, Jean was BORN from the egg, you can even see her skeletal inside the egg in a panel. In Secret Wars, Scott waits till the egg hatches and then he merges with an ethereal light that came from it, making him Phoenix.

[Mercury]

Thank you all for filling me in! I told ya I'm a bimbo regarding such things. No matter...

BEHOLD MAMA (from the little known "The Maiden Phoenix" from Marvel Comics Presents #15 [1989]):







The Phoenix Force is a Morlock. More importantly, mama was manifesting her pink raptor decades ago and, again, without being bonded to P.F. 💅🏼

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Sometimes when I think of the incredible amount of garbage we had to endure while Jean was dead I marvel at my own patience……….I doubt I will ever appreciate her relationship with Scott again.

I wouldn't want to appreciate that ship again. Super toxic, not even counting the Maddie/Emma stuff.
Like the psychic rapport thing? That's not adult love. They couldn't even have separate thoughts. I wonder if people would read that as romantic today? It's kinda psycho if you think about it too long.

And I'm repeating here, but the AUDACITY to walk around in Phoenix costumes. Cyke is disrespectful. I'd trust Creed first.

First, what does having a Phoenix egg even mean? Also, considering that Echo is the host now, does he still have said egg? Second, I know Hickman hasn't been the best writer for Jean, but can we at least appreciate that he gave her stellar moments, such as her Giant-Size issue in which he clearly highlighted that she was the more adept telepath, even though Emma was there (obviously, one of his favorite characters), and when he had her be the first to step down from the QC, reject their offer for reappointment, and form and announce the new team?

To be clear, I am not trying to filter your thoughts or what you have to say as much as I am looking and urging you, as a fan, to look at the positives and bright side of things. She's in a great place right now as a character. She's in a flagship book, co-leading a new team, and being written with dignity and respect and drawn for the gods. I can only see things looking up for her. Perhaps the upside of her having, for the most part, taken a backseat during Hickman's era is that things have lined up for her to be increasingly central, which is the feeling I get when I read the X-Men reboot.

Appreciate that he didn't totally strip her of everything, but being honest, she was becoming a leader before he came in, not just the leader's assistant/love interest, but THE leader. Also, she was a high-potential TK and TP before he came in and was like "nah". She was also confident as a superhero when the chips are before he was like "nah". He's basically done nothing but regress her. Could he have regressed her even further? Sure, but I don't think hype or gratitude is due for that.

As for her appearances under Duggan: I await something major to happen, but he really hasn't done anything to hurt her, thankfully. The odds of that remaining the case are small though. Duggan's already said this is a big Cyke story and that, 4 times out of 5, means something bad for Cyke's love interest.

Sidenote: I cannot believe you haven't read up on the Jean-related bits of the Morrison run.

[Mercury]

Appreciate that he didn't totally strip her of everything, but being honest, she was becoming a leader before he came in, not just the leader's assistant/love interest, but THE leader. Also, she was a high-potential TK and TP before he came in and was like "nah". She was also confident as a superhero when the chips are before he was like "nah". He's basically done nothing but regress her. Could he have regressed her even further? Sure, but I don't think hype or gratitude is due for that.

I can’t fault you for feeling this way, especially considering that infamous “Vote for Thor!” tweet, which kind of revealed how he may feel about Jean. What you’ve come to expect of big Cyclops fans, I’ve come to expect of big Emma fans. In either case, by putting her in the backseat for a spell, he may have inadvertently done her a favor.

Anticipation has been building amongst Jean fans and detractors alike for big changes for her, be it a code name and costume change or just a central part in a big story. Anticipation is always good and now that she is the co-leader of the new X-Men, I see one or more of those changes happening sooner than later.

What keeps me optimistic is Jean herself. She is a character that has survived so much. Her renown and longevity speak for themselves, especially considering the fact that she was absent from comic books a combined 20 years, give or take. It’s pretty remarkable that she has amassed so many fans and is still a central character. I don’t think any one writer or artist can change that.

As for her appearances under Duggan: I await something major to happen, but he really hasn't done anything to hurt her, thankfully. The odds of that remaining the case are small though. Duggan's already said this is a big Cyke story and that, 4 times out of 5, means something bad for Cyke's love interest.

I totally understand your wariness and weariness. Nonetheless, I choose to lean towards optimism and spreading my love for this character that has endured for nearly 60 years (this last part is what’s most important). Otherwise, doing this - reading comics for her, geeking out, anticipating more - stops being fun. And when it stops being fun, well, what’s the point?

I suppose having just gotten back into comics, specifically because of Jean, in fact, after a break that lasted several years accounts for much of my hope. Also, seeing so many fans and great artists and writers at their peak (e.g., Dauterman, Werneck, Percy, Taylor, et al.) promulgating that she is their favorite character helps keep things in perspective for me.

Sidenote: I cannot believe you haven't read up on the Jean-related bits of the Morrison run.

Of course I’ve read Morrison’s run! I just totally forgot about the Phoenix egg bit. I’m somewhat fickle when it comes to remembering details like that. Morrison’s Jean was sublime. I wonder what he would’ve done with her had he not been forced out. I have a feeling he was going to keep her around as the X-Men’s cosmic member. Reading his run, you can sense that he was building to that, but decided to blow everything up before he left.

Anyway, let’s try to keep up hope, which in my case, springs eternal.