Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[Grinning Soul]

Thanks for replying. I appreciate the time you dedicated and I understand your points but I don’t really feel like discussing each one. I’m sorry. I’m just having a particularly stressful day.

I’d just like to address one point.

Writing her as single or in another relationship could "make sense," for the reasons I listed above. I don't even think that is debatable. Neither her identity nor what makes her an interesting character are contingent upon her relationship with Scott. Additionally, I wouldn't consider a writer who came along and decided, "You know what? I want to make Jean single. Or maybe put her in a relationship with Bishop," "wrong," either. .

Sorry. I should have written it more explicitly. When I said “made sense” I meant considering their interactions in her resurrection story and at the end of the Uncanny run.

Now, I would *not* have written it like that. But it’s canon now.

Whatever problems they had had, they seemed to be happy to be with each other, they seemed to have missed each other and be willing to be together again. And if they felt like this, particularly her, it wouldn’t make sense that she’d prefer to be single for a while, you know? It would make sense that they would - at least - try to fix their relationship.

That was the premise I was assuming. But, sure, it could have been written differently. And again: I would have written it differently.

Can I go back to my corner, now? :)

[Mercury]

Can I go back to my corner, now?

Sure

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New variant? (I want her the hell away from Inferno. lol!)

[Askani's Flame]

Sure

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New variant? (I want her the hell away from Inferno. lol!)

Also this is an ugly variant.

[WallStreeter]

To be clear, I find it troubling because Scott has been allowed to "roam around" and explore himself, both as a single man and in other relationships (e.g., Madelyne, Emma). Jean has not been afforded the same agency. Furthermore, as we agreed, I don't believe she would have gone back to him so quickly, or at all, quite frankly, especially after everything that happened before and after her death under Morrison, including the murder of her family, her time displacement, and the events surrounding her resurrection.



Frankly, I am glad that they are not depicted constantly pawing at each other, especially considering the fact that their reunion has not been sufficiently explored nor explained. Also, I have never found such depictions to be realistic, but, then again, these are comic books, lol. In either case, considering the fact that I am not a big supporter of their current coupling, I have been pleased with how they have been depicted under both Hickman and Duggan. There's a maturity to their interactions that softens my annoyance at them being together.

EDIT: I just read this, lol:



By all means, feel free to not respond to my reply if you feel it'll cause you to involve yourself in "an unpleasant interaction." Of course, I would love to discuss our thoughts further, but I don't want to push you.

Jean has at a minimum had sex with Wolverine. Jeen had a relationship with Beast and a human guy. Jean had sex with Bishop. So Jean has had other men. Not as long term as Scott.

But whatever, no one can control what other people like and that’s really where fights in these groups start. Someone who likes Jean and Scott as a couple does not owe anyone an explanation of why they like said couple, and some people only want explanations so they can attack that person’s reasons.

Which is absolutely silly. It does nothing to change what Marvel has published, doesn’t earn anyone money, and ends up brining energy in these groups down.

[D.Z]

Sure

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New variant? (I want her the hell away from Inferno. lol!)

Beautiful cover.

[Mercury]

Jean has at a minimum had sex with Wolverine. Jeen had a relationship with Beast and a human guy. Jean had sex with Bishop. So Jean has had other men. Not as long term as Scott.

Are you referring to alternate universes?

But whatever, no one can control what other people like and that’s really where fights in these groups start. Someone who likes Jean and Scott as a couple does not owe anyone an explanation of why they like said couple, and some people only want explanations so they can attack that person’s reasons.

Just to be clear, I engaged Grinning Soul in a discussion and she was kind enough to oblige. Neither of us attacked each other, so you must be referring to some other time and/or place.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Jean has at a minimum had sex with Wolverine. Jeen had a relationship with Beast and a human guy. Jean had sex with Bishop. So Jean has had other men. Not as long term as Scott.

But whatever, no one can control what other people like and that’s really where fights in these groups start. Someone who likes Jean and Scott as a couple does not owe anyone an explanation of why they like said couple, and some people only want explanations so they can attack that person’s reasons.

Which is absolutely silly. It does nothing to change what Marvel has published, doesn’t earn anyone money, and ends up brining energy in these groups down.

Jean has not had sex with Wolverine or Bishop. I know you are referring to Age of X-Man where she was an entirely different person, with entirely different fake memories. It's kind of odd to say she's been with people when a different person was supplanted over her real memories and identity at the time. I'm saying this as someone that would welcome a Jean/Bishop thing happening in the 616.

I wish they would shake the table that way, though.

[davetvs]

Jean has not had sex with Wolverine or Bishop. I know you are referring to Age of X-Man where she was an entirely different person, with entirely different fake memories. It's kind of odd to say she's been with people when a different person was supplanted over her real memories and identity at the time. I'm saying this as someone that would welcome a Jean/Bishop thing happening in the 616.

I wish they would shake the table that way, though.

Jean and Logan literally had a jacuzzi makeout and fade to black in one the recent issues. The implication was clear. Why are people crusading for the chastity of a fictional character? She's a grown woman, and in a polyamorous relationship. She doesn't have to be chaste to be good.

[Mercury]

Jean and Logan literally had a jacuzzi makeout and fade to black in one the recent issues. The implication was clear. Why are people crusading for the chastity of a fictional character? She's a grown woman, and in a polyamorous relationship. She doesn't have to be chaste to be good.

This is true, though, speaking for myself, I was referring to Jean’s relationships, or lack thereof, prior to Hickman’s run.

[PwrdOn]

Jean and Logan literally had a jacuzzi makeout and fade to black in one the recent issues. The implication was clear. Why are people crusading for the chastity of a fictional character? She's a grown woman, and in a polyamorous relationship. She doesn't have to be chaste to be good.

Well the problem is that the thought of Jean and Logan having sex triggers all of the Cyclops fans in editorial and makes them want to sideline her in-story as retribution. Her dynamic with Wolverine is fun sometimes, but it's not THAT interesting, and I'd gladly ditch it if it meant that Jean actually got to stay alive for the next decade.

[Mercury]

Well the problem is that the thought of Jean and Logan having sex triggers all of the Cyclops fans in editorial and makes them want to sideline her in-story as retribution. Her dynamic with Wolverine is fun sometimes, but it's not THAT interesting, and I'd gladly ditch it if it meant that Jean actually got to stay alive for the next decade.

Whose decision was it to manufacture this little tryst?

[Devaishwarya]

Also this is an ugly variant.

Yes, it most certainly is.

[Mercury]

Coincidentally, over the Labor Day weekend, Claremont shared the following at Dragon Con in Atlanta:

He isn’t exactly Team Cyclops, either, as Claremont says that ultimately Phoenix, i.e. Jean Grey, and Wolverine are endgame. He even stated that he had originally wanted Logan’s story to end with Jean resurrecting Logan from his shallow grave and having them walk float off into the light of a Phoenix flare together.

https://culturess.com/2021/09/09/x-m...le-characters/

[Starchilde]

Coincidentally, over the Labor Day weekend, Claremont shared the following at Dragon Con in Atlanta:



https://culturess.com/2021/09/09/x-m...le-characters/

I know that the Jean/Logan ship has many fans including Claremont, personally I never liked it for many reasons. And after Morrison, I liked it even less. Really his desire to stab Phoenix in every occasion always irked me, he did it with Jean, with Rachel and wanted to do it with Hope. Also Aaron and his obsession with making everything Phoenix about Logan just annoys the hell out of me. I think Logan is an amazing character but I just don't like Jean and him together.

[WallStreeter]

Well the problem is that the thought of Jean and Logan having sex triggers all of the Cyclops fans in editorial and makes them want to sideline her in-story as retribution. Her dynamic with Wolverine is fun sometimes, but it's not THAT interesting, and I'd gladly ditch it if it meant that Jean actually got to stay alive for the next decade.

She has not been sidelined since obviously having sex with Logan in X-Force.