Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[WallStreeter]

Jean has not had sex with Wolverine or Bishop. I know you are referring to Age of X-Man where she was an entirely different person, with entirely different fake memories. It's kind of odd to say she's been with people when a different person was supplanted over her real memories and identity at the time. I'm saying this as someone that would welcome a Jean/Bishop thing happening in the 616.

I wish they would shake the table that way, though.

Jean and Bishop got in trouble for having sex in Age of X-Man. It was still them no matter what the circumstances. And she got in a jacuzzi naked with Logan in X-Force. So what do you think happened there?

[Mercury]

I know that the Jean/Logan ship has many fans including Claremont, personally I never liked it for many reasons. And after Morrison, I liked it even less. Really his desire to stab Phoenix in every occasion always irked me, he did it with Jean, with Rachel and wanted to do it with Hope. Also Aaron and his obsession with making everything Phoenix about Logan just annoys the hell out of me. I think Logan is an amazing character but I just don't like Jean and him together.

Admittedly, I have been a casual supporter of Jean and Logan being a couple, but, frankly, I just want her single now.

Here’s my idea of a good time: Jean goes on an extended cross-country road trip on her own, helping and saving humans and mutants alike, connecting the latter with Krakoa and other resources, while encountering other heroes and reflecting on her life before and after meeting Xavier.

I will personally pay the writer’s fee/salary if Marvel approves.

[Starchilde]

Here’s my idea of a good time: Jean goes on an extended cross-country road trip on her own, helping and saving humans and mutants alike, connecting the latter with Krakoa and other resources, while encountering other heroes and reflecting on her life before and after meeting Xavier.

I will personally pay the writer’s fee/salary if Marvel approves.

That would be awesome she certainly needs more introspection in this era.

[PyroFN]

Are you referring to alternate universes?

Nope. All canon. She had sex with Bishop on Age of X-Man, was in a relationship as Teen with Beast in All-New, and it is implied in House of X and X-Force that Jean is in an intimate relationship Wolverine.

[Walter Simonson]

Out of respect, I actually just skimmed through the documentary to find Louise's quote. It seems I may have misquoted her. The quote begins at 14 minutes and 30 seconds:



I feel so embarrassed! 😂 Admittedly, I was listening to this documentary, which played in the background, as I finished some work. It really did/does sound like Louise said, "And I wrote this caption," but what she says after clearly contradicts that. Thank you for pointing out my error! I urge others to watch the documentary and this moment specifically to see/hear what I am referring to.

Sorry!

LOL. No worries. Weezie doesn't read boards so she'd never know. I do some although I'm not a fanatic about it. Way too much to keep track of. But I did happen to see these comments about the asparagus people (as we called them) and it didn't jibe with what I remembered about the original creation of those stories. I wasn't involved in any of that personally, but I read the comics (a million years ago) and Weezie and I would talk about some of the stuff at home. That whole year of the lead-up to X-Men 137 was fantastic work. And Jean's death was a pivotal moment in X-history.

Best/Walter

[Mercury]

LOL. No worries. Weezie doesn't read boards so she'd never know. I do some although I'm not a fanatic about it. Way too much to keep track of. But I did happen to see these comments about the asparagus people (as we called them) and it didn't jibe with what I remembered about the original creation of those stories. I wasn't involved in any of that personally, but I read the comics (a million years ago) and Weezie and I would talk about some of the stuff at home. That whole year of the lead-up to X-Men 137 was fantastic work. And Jean's death was a pivotal moment in X-history.

Best/Walter

Thank you for being so kind!

Also… Wow. I still can’t believe the Walter Simonson reads CBR and the Jean Grey thread.

[Mercury]

That would be awesome she certainly needs more introspection in this era.

Agreed.

Nope. All canon. She had sex with Bishop on Age of X-Man, was in a relationship as Teen with Beast in All-New, and it is implied in House of X and X-Force that Jean is in an intimate relationship Wolverine.

I so need to read Age of X-Man. So, was Scott single? Also, how can this not be considered an alternate universe/timeline?

As for All-New X-Men, she was not in a relationship with Beast. They kissed and she entertained the idea, but she remained single until close to the end, when she and Scott finally kissed. She certainly didn’t have sex with Hank. Cyclops also entertained entering into relationships with Laura Kinney and Vampire Storm, if I remember correctly.

EDIT: Also, as I noted in a previous post, I wasn’t denying Jean’s apparent tryst with Logan during this era, but I was referring to her lack of real-time, long term relationships outside of her marriage with Scott, both before and during this era.

[WallStreeter]

Agreed.



I so need to read Age of X-Man. So, was Scott single? Also, how can this not be considered an alternate universe/timeline?

As for All-New X-Men, she was not in a relationship with Beast. They kissed and she entertained the idea, but she remained single until close to the end, when she and Scott finally kissed. She certainly didn’t have sex with Hank. Cyclops also entertained entering into relationships with Laura Kinney and Vampire Storm, if I remember correctly.

EDIT: Also, as I noted in a previous post, I wasn’t denying Jean’s apparent tryst with Logan during this era, but I was referring to her lack of real-time, long term relationships outside of her marriage with Scott, both before and during this era.

This is why these conversations end in disaster. Jean more than kisses Beast. They dated for awhile, but it didn’t work out.

But there was something…..

But in order for you to bolster your anger Jean and Scott back together, you basically make it seem like Cyclops is the world’s biggest womanizer and Jean is some pure virgin. Scott has been with Jean, Colleen, Lee, Maddie, and Emma. Only 5 people. Not a lot.

By my count Jean has Scott, the human guy she dated with in college for awhile, Wolverine, and Bishop. Add in Jeen and there is hank and one other human dude.

Scott had probably kicked it with Emma a few times on Krakoa like Jean kicks it with Wolverine. They currently have an open relationship.

[Mercury]

This is why these conversations end in disaster.

Quite frankly, it seems to me that the person creating strife in this conversation is you, but I will still reply to your post and engage in a discussion with you.

Jean more than kisses Beast. They dated for awhile, but it didnÂ’t work out... But there was somethingÂ…..

I just finished reading that run a few weeks ago. They kissed, considered being together, and, as you noted, it didn't work out. Why? Because she couldn't keep her mind off of Scott. Incidentally, I found Bendis & Co.'s handling of their, i.e., Jean and Scott's, relationship quite beautiful. It did provide me with a level of closure regarding his affair with Emma. Nevertheless, Jean was not sexually intimate nor even in a deep relationship with Hank. Not anymore deep than Scott's flirtations with Laura and Vampire Storm during the same run.

But in order for you to bolster your anger Jean and Scott back together, you basically make it seem like Cyclops is the worldÂ’s biggest womanizer and Jean is some pure virgin. Scott has been with Jean, Colleen, Lee, Maddie, and Emma. Only 5 people. Not a lot.

Firstly, please do not presume to tell me what my feelings or intentions are. You don't know me that well. Secondly, I am not angry that she and Scott are together. I am not even strongly against them as a couple, but you would know that if you'd bothered reading some of my other posts in this thread, which have included posting moments that I love between them. Thirdly, no one is claiming Jean is a "pure virgin" - what a strange accusation to make - but she certainly hasn't cheated on him nor been afforded the same levels of independence and variety that he has. And frankly, when she has been depicted as single (e.g., All-New X-Men, Jean Grey, X-Men: Red, etc.), I have found her to be fasinating and compelling, and only want more of that from and for her.

By my count Jean has Scott, the human guy she dated with in college for awhile, Wolverine, and Bishop. Add in Jeen and there is hank and one other human dude. Scott had probably kicked it with Emma a few times on Krakoa like Jean kicks it with Wolverine. They currently have an open relationship.

Finally, if your objective is to paint a picture of Jean and Scott as being equal in terms of both the number of people they have been with and how they have handled their relationships, no dice. You're bringing up a person she flirted with in college when she and Scott weren't even a couple (and she still had Slim on her mind then), Bishop, who, correct me if I'm wrong, was someone with whom she was partnered in an alternate timeline, and Hank, who I've already commented on. I will give you Logan, though even her relationship with him has never been fully explored. However, she has never abandoned a partner or cheated on another, which is a very clear difference between her and Scott. Mind you, I'm not putting him down for it - everyone makes mistakes - but let's not pretend that she has done anything near equivalent.

Perhaps you're a big fan of Scott or even of Scott and Jean as a couple, so I do apologize if my desire to see Jean single bothers or offends you. However, your hostile and accusatory tone certainly doesn't lend itself to having a more amicable discussion.

[Mercury]

And one more thing: Neither Scott nor his fans have to deal with the level of, excuse my language, sh*t Jean and her fans have to deal with and that I see every day on social media platforms like Twitter, in which she is derided for supposedly taking Scott away from both Maddie and Emma. (Could there be more presumptuous and oblivious takes?) Perhaps that also colors my view.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Jean and Logan literally had a jacuzzi makeout and fade to black in one the recent issues. The implication was clear. Why are people crusading for the chastity of a fictional character? She's a grown woman, and in a polyamorous relationship. She doesn't have to be chaste to be good.

The fact of the matter is that she hasn't had sex with Logan. I just feel weird about claiming a woman has had sex with someone she hasn't, even if she is fictional.

I would be glad if she and Logan got it on, but they just kissed in the pool.

Coincidentally, over the Labor Day weekend, Claremont shared the following at Dragon Con in Atlanta:



https://culturess.com/2021/09/09/x-m...le-characters/

The last time he told this story, Kate was there too:

20210909_190021.jpg

Jean and Bishop got in trouble for having sex in Age of X-Man. It was still them no matter what the circumstances. And she got in a jacuzzi naked with Logan in X-Force. So what do you think happened there?

As far what was on panel or implied in the comic, Jean and Logan just made out. As for the Bishop thing, no, if you replace a person with a whole other different person but the same body, they are still different people. See Maddy, Honey Badger, Joseph, whatever person is in Rockslide these days, et cetera.

[Wiccan]

Jesus, the mental gymnastics here LOL.

[WallStreeter]

So this is the issue. Some fans have whatever ideas they have, but want to FORCE or BULLY other people into sharing their viewpoints. Thus it becomes a slave not really for fans of Jean Grey, but fir those who want to scream the loudest. Mercury, I don’t need you to tell me who to like or how to like them
Or to read comics. If you hate Jean and Scott as a couple wonderful. I personally like them. If I have to ignore your posts I will. That’s all.

[Mercury]

Mercury, I don’t need you to tell me who to like or how to like them...

Please do point me to where I have attempted to do either.

If you hate Jean and Scott as a couple wonderful.

I think I have made it clear that I don't "hate Jean and Scott as a couple." If this is the sentiment you are gleaning from my posts, I would suggest that you read what I have written again.

[Mercury]

The last time he told this story, Kate was there too:

20210909_190021.jpg

Where the hell is this from?! I need to read this.