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  1. #8866
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starchilde View Post
    One curious thing, Rosenberg mentions that his original ending had Jean being not really emotionally okay when she came back, and the X-Men being worried about her (I pictured something similar to how Betsy was shown in the mansion after she reconstructed her OG body). He says they had the page done and penciled, and if I'm not mistaken also colored. But he decided to change the ending and take that page out so it would flow better with how Jean was going to be shown in X-Men Red. He said the page still exists. It would be interesting to see that page someday, just for curiosity.
    Its how he wrote her in the AXM annual.



    The vibe I got was that he was gonna have her be like Buffy in season 6

  2. #8867
    Fantastic Member Starchilde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Its how he wrote her in the AXM annual.



    The vibe I got was that he was gonna have her be like Buffy in season 6
    Ohhh you're right. I forgot about these panels, they indeed have that feeling Rosenberg said. I always remember that annual for Creepy Xavier and I didn't notice this. Thanks Havok.

  3. #8868
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega_DCD View Post
    That is definitely one of my ideal situations, I posted as such in the “Headcanon” thread

    “Headcanon...Jean's mutation goes beyond just telepathy/telekinesis...even beyond the Phoenix Force, and deep down she can link directly to the M'Kraan Crystal/White Hot Room...it's why Jean/Phoenix had such a deep, empathic connection with the Crystal in the original Saga, it's why Destiny goes future-blind in her vicinity, calling Jean a nexus of probabilities, it's why she inadvertently crossed over to the Heroes Reborn reality, it's why she goes beyond any other Phoenix host to being actually merged with it and ascends to the White Phoenix of the Crown...and after the Phoenix Force "killed" teen Jean, she eventually realized where she was (the white hot room) and was able to manipulate the environment she was in.

    Other headcanon...Jean does "impossible" things with her psionic powers. On multiple occasions, those brought onto the astral plane by Jean who are not telepaths themselves, have been able to exhibit analogs of their physical powers on the astral plane. She also transferred her telekinesis along with her consciousness to Emma's body...and somehow transferred her telekinesis to Psylocke while absorbing her specific telepathic traits.“
    Love it, love!

  4. #8869
    Mighty Member MechaJeanix's Avatar
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    I just wanted to send a quick message to say that I love that I can come here and discuss the X-men and Jean Grey in particular. I know we all do not agree on everything and some of the debates will live on and never go away - like the ones about Ms. Grey and the Phoenix, and that is ultimately a good thing. That is what we are here to do... share in our mutual appreciation of comics, but also to discuss, debate, and hash out all the complexities involving our "special interest".

    Coming here to geek out and not feel judged is a great feeling and it allows me to escape. I was recently promoted to a big position at work so I have a lot more work, responsibilities, and stress. It feels good to unwind and just veg out on the X-men. Speaking of which I went to the comic store today and bought X-men 3 and 4. I still do not own issue 2 which bothers me. Ah, well. I'll get it eventually.

  5. #8870
    Incredible Member Omega_DCD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    Love it, love!


    Quote Originally Posted by MechaJeanix View Post
    I just wanted to send a quick message to say that I love that I can come here and discuss the X-men and Jean Grey in particular. I know we all do not agree on everything and some of the debates will live on and never go away - like the ones about Ms. Grey and the Phoenix, and that is ultimately a good thing. That is what we are here to do... share in our mutual appreciation of comics, but also to discuss, debate, and hash out all the complexities involving our "special interest".

    Coming here to geek out and not feel judged is a great feeling and it allows me to escape. I was recently promoted to a big position at work so I have a lot more work, responsibilities, and stress. It feels good to unwind and just veg out on the X-men. Speaking of which I went to the comic store today and bought X-men 3 and 4. I still do not own issue 2 which bothers me. Ah, well. I'll get it eventually.
    First, congrats on the promotion! And I agree 100%, this is my comic/Jean Grey WHR (and some Facebook groups too). My partner and my friends obviously know of my passion for this, but it's not a shared thing. This is a much needed outlet

  6. #8871
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MechaJeanix View Post
    I just wanted to send a quick message to say that I love that I can come here and discuss the X-men and Jean Grey in particular. I know we all do not agree on everything and some of the debates will live on and never go away - like the ones about Ms. Grey and the Phoenix, and that is ultimately a good thing. That is what we are here to do... share in our mutual appreciation of comics, but also to discuss, debate, and hash out all the complexities involving our "special interest".

    Coming here to geek out and not feel judged is a great feeling and it allows me to escape. I was recently promoted to a big position at work so I have a lot more work, responsibilities, and stress. It feels good to unwind and just veg out on the X-men. Speaking of which I went to the comic store today and bought X-men 3 and 4. I still do not own issue 2 which bothers me. Ah, well. I'll get it eventually.
    All of this. This is exactly how I feel. Your post warmed my heart. And congratulations on the big promotion!

  7. #8872
    LET JEAN GREY BE FREE! Kitty&Piotr<3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MechaJeanix View Post
    I just wanted to send a quick message to say that I love that I can come here and discuss the X-men and Jean Grey in particular. I know we all do not agree on everything and some of the debates will live on and never go away - like the ones about Ms. Grey and the Phoenix, and that is ultimately a good thing. That is what we are here to do... share in our mutual appreciation of comics, but also to discuss, debate, and hash out all the complexities involving our "special interest".

    Coming here to geek out and not feel judged is a great feeling and it allows me to escape. I was recently promoted to a big position at work so I have a lot more work, responsibilities, and stress. It feels good to unwind and just veg out on the X-men. Speaking of which I went to the comic store today and bought X-men 3 and 4. I still do not own issue 2 which bothers me. Ah, well. I'll get it eventually.
    Congrats, dude!


    Quote Originally Posted by Starchilde View Post
    One curious thing, Rosenberg mentions that his original ending had Jean being not really emotionally okay when she came back, and the X-Men being worried about her (I pictured something similar to how Betsy was shown in the mansion after she reconstructed her OG body). He says they had the page done and penciled, and if I'm not mistaken also colored. But he decided to change the ending and take that page out so it would flow better with how Jean was going to be shown in X-Men Red. He said the page still exists. It would be interesting to see that page someday, just for curiosity.
    He wanted Jean suicidal because Cyke wasn't around. Awful take to go along with his awful Phoenix story lol. You can see where he wanted to go with her in his Astonishing Annual. It's also noteworthy that he didn't want Jean leading a team. Needless to say that I am not a fan.

    As much as I rag on Hickman's useless damsel, Jean would have been in a lot more trouble with the Phoenix Resurrection writer whittling away at her.
    "Yes, it was a kind of adultery, but at the same time Jean wasn't being his wife anymore. I just felt that the spark between them had died out and it was time to give Scott someone else."
    -Grant Morrison on how it was Jean's fault Scott cheated.

    "Cyclops loves wilted roses because they remind him of dead redheads."
    -Gail

  8. #8873
    Fantastic Member Starchilde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty&Piotr<3 View Post
    Congrats, dude!




    He wanted Jean suicidal because Cyke wasn't around. Awful take to go along with his awful Phoenix story lol. You can see where he wanted to go with her in his Astonishing Annual. It's also noteworthy that he didn't want Jean leading a team. Needless to say that I am not a fan.

    As much as I rag on Hickman's useless damsel, Jean would have been in a lot more trouble with the Phoenix Resurrection writer whittling away at her.
    I dont think he mentions something about Cyke tho, what he said in the podcast apparently was more aimed at issues with Phoenix and identity (something about a birdcage, things like that). Anyway, I personally don’t mind Jean being compromised emotionally if it’s a good story, but the way she was presented after resurrection was better than Rosenberg’s take I think. Leading her own team was refreshing and good for her. Aaaand we avoided more talk about Phoenix being or not being toxic, all of that lmao.
    Last edited by Starchilde; 10-15-2021 at 10:07 PM.

  9. #8874
    Astonishing Member Thirteen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    It's important to note that, while Jean's return in Fantastic Four was drafted by John Byrne, it was fine-tuned and also written by Chris Claremont.

    https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Fantastic_Four_Vol_1_286
    And the idea for how Jean could return via the Jean and Phoenix were separate entities originated with (then fanguy) Kurt Busiek.
    https://www.cbr.com/comic-book-urban...s-revealed-29/
    Last edited by Thirteen; 10-15-2021 at 10:43 PM.
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  10. #8875
    Incredible Member Omega_DCD's Avatar
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    Yeah I'm glad we got Taylor's post-resurrection Jean instead of Rosenberg's. Jean being proactive after death (hers and other's) is very much in character.

    After emerging from the cocoon, Jean saw the state of the world and immediately wanted to help her fellow mutants, even without Xavier, or the X-Men as they currently were...leading to the formation of X-Factor

    After Cyclops "died" at the hands of Apocalypse, Jean took time to cope in Muir Island and did so by helping Moira, helping recruit new X-Men such as Thunderbird III, and bonding with Cable, leading to becoming an active X-Man again, with her perseverance not going unnoticed (from Rogue).

    Also I thought the whole point of Jean mocking the Phoenix with "Is that all?" after it temporarily brought Scott back to life, was that this time Jean got to properly say goodbye to Scott. She got a measure of closure. So why would she be in such sullen state?

    Also another tidbit highlighting Jean's perspective, at the start of X-tinction Agenda, Jean and de-aged Ororo are talking and catching up and at the end they say "To the X-Men then! Who do not die the old fashioned way. And no matter how hard we try, none of us die forever."

  11. #8876
    Astonishing Member Thirteen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harpsikord View Post
    I went ahead and did a micro hero of what I think the new costume may look like!

    Could be something like this redesign by APJStudio where the front maintains the “skirt” lines by way of a bodycon tight tunic…Not sure about the raised open collar though…
    EDEE3B38-6B4B-44B1-876A-1612EAF1B43B.jpg
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  12. #8877
    hate cant reach you here Harpsikord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thirteen View Post
    Could be something like this redesign by APJStudio where the front maintains the “skirt” lines by way of a bodycon tight tunic…Not sure about the raised open collar though…
    EDEE3B38-6B4B-44B1-876A-1612EAF1B43B.jpg
    That's generally what I'm thinking is going to happen. It's either that or it's just a dress altogether I think, but we'll have to see.

    I'm not sure about the neckline either but this design was made by using the Storm X-Men Red costume so I think having that neckline was sort of inevitable, and it's great regardless!
    "We come into this world alone and we leave the same way. The time we spent in between - time spent alive, sharing, learning together... is all that makes life worth living." - Jean Grey

  13. #8878
    Astonishing Member Grey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreeter View Post
    Jean and Bishop got in trouble for having sex in Age of X-Man. It was still them no matter what the circumstances. And she got in a jacuzzi naked with Logan in X-Force. So what do you think happened there?
    I’ve literally been naked in jacuzzis with men I was attracted to and on dates with and didn’t have sex with them.

    I’m not saying they didn’t have sex. I’m saying they may or may both have. Stating it as fact is really just a projection- until one is ready to admit “it’s how they viewed what happened” rather than “it’s what happened.”.

    I will take the clues and the hints and enter it into my headcanon, but doesn’t make it fact. Kinda like I’d like to believe jean is an omega tk, but it was very clear that hickmans omega streamlining was the supreme law of the land, so I’m going with the guy who’s in charge of the status quo. Think about that. I’m choosing to believe the view ?hickman) that I DONT prefer, because it feels moot to compare unambiguous to possibly-intended-
    Possibly-no comma-misinterpretation until we have more evidence or confirmation.

    . I support people having their own beliefs based on the scenes such as the hot tub scene, but think it’s these moments we need to learn to distinguish the unambiguous and the possibilities.
    Your favorite superhero- the one you visit these forums to talk about. Would they talk to others the way you do on this message board?

  14. #8879
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grey View Post
    I’ve literally been naked in jacuzzis with men I was attracted to and on dates with and didn’t have sex with them.

    I’m not saying they didn’t have sex. I’m saying they may or may both have. Stating it as fact is really just a projection- until one is ready to admit “it’s how they viewed what happened” rather than “it’s what happened.”.

    I will take the clues and the hints and enter it into my headcanon, but doesn’t make it fact. Kinda like I’d like to believe jean is an omega tk, but it was very clear that hickmans omega streamlining was the supreme law of the land, so I’m going with the guy who’s in charge of the status quo. Think about that. I’m choosing to believe the view ?hickman) that I DONT prefer, because it feels moot to compare unambiguous to possibly-intended-
    Possibly-no comma-misinterpretation until we have more evidence or confirmation.

    . I support people having their own beliefs based on the scenes such as the hot tub scene, but think it’s these moments we need to learn to distinguish the unambiguous and the possibilities.
    I agree. I mean, I'm not saying nothing happened, but if something did happen, it wasn't shown on-panel; not even a kiss. They are longtime and very close friends, so the level of intimacy they showed in that scene isn't out of the ordinary, not to me, at least.

  15. #8880
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    C'mon, that's just being obtuse for the sake of it. She was straddling him. They may not have necessarily had sex here, but no, this is not "intimacy of very close friends". The fact that you can be naked with someone in a jaccuzi and not have sex with them changes nothing about the scene, whether they're about to fuck or not isn't the whole determining factor.



    The way they're acting is also not one of that being unusual, or of doubt of the nature of the situation. And then there's the dialogue "If you think I'm too good for X-Force you probably think I'm too good for you", "Sure, but you need a taste of poison now and then". The panel ends with him holding her face and then it zooms out with them pressed onto each other (which does seem like a kiss to me, but that specific part and that only I'll agree isn't clear).

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