Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[Celestialbodies]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FEv5g3wX...pg&name=medium

Claremont’s depiction of a Phoenix-imbued Jean reinforced Seagle’s work with the character. Unfortunately, as noted by Seagle, “based on various regime changes and edicts,” he never got the chance to complete his proposed Phoenix arc and left Marvel not long after. 6/7

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FEv56ZfX...pg&name=medium

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FEv58wNW...dium[/IMG]

Thank you Mercury for all your amazing work and the memories!


I gotta say though, there's nothing more iconic than Jean Grey and missed opportunities, every-time a writer has a grand idea for Jean editorial eventually nix it. She was supposed to defeated Onslaught originally before editorial decided to make it a Marvel-centric story opposed to a X-men story.


As fall as telekinesis, X-factor Jean doesn't get enough credit some of my favorites:















CONT'D

[Celestialbodies]

Another small Jean moment:







I love these!

[Tank]

Thank you Mercury for all your amazing work and the memories!


I gotta say though, there's nothing more iconic than Jean Grey and missed opportunities, every-time a writer has a grand idea for Jean editorial eventually nix it. She was supposed to defeated Onslaught originally before editorial decided to make it a Marvel-centric story opposed to a X-men story.


As fall as telekinesis, X-factor Jean doesn't get enough credit some of my favorites:















CONT'D

Add to this the time Kelly and Seagle wanted Jean to defeat Shadowkinh during the original psiwars and then have her, Scott wolverine and storm on Uncanny xmen as like the xmen’s jla flagship with all the big hitters. Instead the editors forced her to be depowered and wrote Scott and Jean off.

It’s not the first time male led industry has crapped all over a strong powerful, Woman narrative when it comes to Jean. See also John Byrne not liking how powerful she was. Same with whatever Morrison had in planned for her, but was cut short due to disagreements so he left Marvel. Then we had the years of scemma as a result of Morrison’s run and longer term plans for jean being cut short.

Probably the case with the animated series as well because who in their right mind writes a character so incompetently as these original writers. There is no excuse.

[Lukmendes]

Good catch! I recently sped read the first 137 issues to cover Jean's feats. Here's the thread: https://twitter.com/Jean_RED_Grey/st...79233021689865 Note: If you're inclined to check out the thread, keep clicking "Show Replies" until you reach issue #137; it's a long thread. Also, here's thread two, in which I cover Jean's origins from Bizarre Adventures and her return, along with X-Factor: https://twitter.com/Jean_RED_Grey/st...32583046991872 I haven't updated the thread in a while, but I will be picking back up on it shortly.)

Y'know I took another look at this and realized something funny with this one in particular:

https://twitter.com/Jean_RED_Grey/st...33856457760768

Jean managed to stop Pietro twice, and the sewing practice done afterwards has Scott pointing out she completed it slightly faster, so, clearly this means Jean improved because she managed to catch Pietro, meaning he's good for sewing practice .

Add to this the time Kelly and Seagle wanted Jean to defeat Shadowkinh during the original psiwars and then have her, Scott wolverine and storm on Uncanny xmen as like the xmen’s jla flagship with all the big hitters. Instead the editors forced her to be depowered and wrote Scott and Jean off.

It’s not the first time male led industry has crapped all over a strong powerful, Woman narrative when it comes to Jean. See also John Byrne not liking how powerful she was.

I think Byrne had a story where he was trying to increase Wanda's power, a lot, something about her Hex actually going back in time to rewrite the past for that "bad luck" to happen, so it's a bit ironic to have a problem with Jean, though I guess Wanda wouldn't be on that level lol.

Same with whatever Morrison had in planned for her, but was cut short due to disagreements so he left Marvel. Then we had the years of scemma as a result of Morrison’s run and longer term plans for jean being cut short.

Probably the case with the animated series as well because who in their right mind writes a character so incompetently as these original writers. There is no excuse.

She also got nerfed from Marvel vs Capcom 3 to Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3, more evidence that someone doesn't want her that strong .

[Mercury]

Thank you Mercury for all your amazing work and the memories!

Thank you for the compliment and being receptive! I love delving into her history, which is truly fascinating.

I gotta say though, there's nothing more iconic than Jean Grey and missed opportunities, every-time a writer has a grand idea for Jean editorial eventually nix it. She was supposed to defeated Onslaught originally before editorial decided to make it a Marvel-centric story opposed to a X-men story.

I need to learn more about this alternate Onslaught ending. That would’ve been amazing!

As far as telekinesis, X-factor Jean doesn't get enough credit some of my favorites:

Thanks for sharing these great moments!

[Mercury]

Huh, didn't think there was such a pattern among Spidey fans lol.

Kinda surprising I come across as "breezy" too, I see myself as a cynic.

I've noticed one, lol. There's an openness to you three, i.e., Spidey fans that I've interacted with, that I find endearing.

It's is very flexible, very powerful, and the opponent will need to have specific defenses against it so the telepath doesn't just end the battle with a literal thought.

Basically, like magic, it needs rules here and there to not be able to do too much, it's obviously not as flexible as magic, but still pretty flexible.

Oh and, this has nothing to do with telepathy's potential brokeness, but unless fancy visuals are used, telepathy is more boring to look at, a character standing still making another one faint, yeah... Can be fine once in a while, but definitely can't happen too much.

Of course, I am biased, but I think telepathy can trump magic. After all, in the end, you need to be able to use your mind to use magic. A strong and fast enough telepath can overcome a magician.

A big problem with it is that it's kinda boring really, few characters not called Wolverine get some development, Storm for example is basically useless, and doesn't have much of a personality, so if she's removed, nothing much is lost lol.

I love Storm, though, and would hardly categorize her as "useless" and without "much of a personality." In fact, she is one of the most powerful and interesting characters in comics. She's my second favorite mutant behind Jean.

I'm in issue#9 right now, she's kinda doing better than I expectedm specially considering this is Stan Lee and Jack Kirby we're talking about lol.

In combat she's been doing alright so far, was surprised that she managed to grab Pietro twice just like that, and he's a speedster who casually dodges other attacks, so that's huge, always thought that would be something she'd do only after her powers increased.

Biggest problem right now with her is is her personality, she's just kinda there, Angel is like that once in a while, and Cyclops was the same too, but then issue#7 has him suddenly becoming the leader, and once in a while we see him thinking about what it's like to be a leader, so he has that going for him.

She doesn't get much credit for some of the incredible feats she managed to accomplish during the first run. Also, her temper and assertiveness have been a part of her character since issue #1. Still, due to the times, they did try nudging her into the damsel in distress role often, but she was still allowed to "go there" throughout the first 66 issues.[/quote]

And here I was thinking that Stan Lee calling her telekinesis "teleport" would only have happened in X-Men#2 lol.

lmao. She is literally Marvel's first telekinetic character.

[Mercury]

Free publicity:



And guess who agrees...



Do we have a fan in the house or do we have a fan in the house?

[Phoenixx9]

I always knew it, but it is X-Ceptional to see it in print, lol!!

[Tank]

I always knew it, but it is X-Ceptional to see it in print, lol!!

It’s not official. It’s one of those articles that is basically a fan list or a like the numerous lists on CBR. Doesn’t mean squat when she’s written with no depth in recent times.

[Subliminally]

Free publicity:



And guess who agrees...



Do we have a fan in the house or do we have a fan in the house?

Well damn, what did Captain Marvel ever do to them? Also, here's another -

I feel like the list is a bit out of order but a list is a list!

[Phoenixx9]

It’s not official. It’s one of those articles that is basically a fan list or a like the numerous lists on CBR. Doesn’t mean squat when she’s written with no depth in recent times.

Oohhh! Thanks. I thought Marvel was finally admitting it.

[Lukmendes]

I've noticed one, lol. There's an openness to you three, i.e., Spidey fans that I've interacted with, that I find endearing.

Starting to think those other two are clones, and Spider-Man and clones is not a good combination .

Of course, I am biased, but I think telepathy can trump magic. After all, in the end, you need to be able to use your mind to use magic. A strong and fast enough telepath can overcome a magician.

Against each other, sure, magic is a bit on the slower side when it comes to getting the spells out, and telepathy is anything but slow, so telepathy is a pretty good counter pick for magic, but I was talking about how magic can do a lot of bullshit once the spells are out, and it's even worse if the magic is poorly defined, 'cause when it's like that, it basically has no limits, like, Kindred, a recent Spidey villain who has magic, gave a guy who's basically a minion, the power to steal any power, including a power like Juggernaut's, with no cost, that's the kind of bullshit magic can do when poorly defined lol.

I love Storm, though, and would hardly categorize her as "useless" and without "much of a personality." In fact, she is one of the most powerful and interesting characters in comics. She's my second favorite mutant behind Jean.

I was still talking about Wolverine and the X-Men, not Storm in general lol.

Whenever there was a fight there, she didn't make much of a difference, was even likely to get beaten up, and I don't remember her having stuff that really shows her personality besides her episode focused one, and that one time she was flying with Angel, but again, Wolverine and the X-Men sidelines characters, Storm is unfortunately one of 'em, and might be the one among the X-Men who had it worse, which's just baffling.

She doesn't get much credit for some of the incredible feats she managed to accomplish during the first run.

Well, the first run isn't talked about much in general, so that's expected

Also, her temper and assertiveness have been a part of her character since issue #1. Still, due to the times, they did try nudging her into the damsel in distress role often, but she was still allowed to "go there" throughout the first 66 issues.

So far as I've read, she hasn't been much of a damsel, she does get dizzy whenever she tries to put too much effort, but it doesn't happen much, and she tends to hold her own in fights, and telekinesis is a strong and flexible enough power that she can do stuff others may not manage.

Compared to Sue who initially could only turn invisible, and Janet who was basically made redundant by the fact Ant-Man exists, Jean is doing great by comparison whenever there's a fight, and compared to the rest of the her own team, again, she's doing fine, so far at least.

So far the only time I've seen her getting kidnapped was X-Men#3, and in that one, everyone got kidnapped, and Jean managed to free them under Xavier's instructions (Which, she really should realize by herself that she can use her telekinesis to remove a fucking blindfold lol).

lmao. She is literally Marvel's first telekinetic character.

Y'know I'm reminded she actually could teleport in Marvel vs Capcom 3, she even loudly says "Teleport!" when doing it, might be one of her powers as Phoenix, but I like the idea that Capcom decided to give her teleportation 'cause of a typo .

Oohhh! Thanks. I thought Marvel was finally admitting it. D:

At least that producer is agreeing with it, so that's a good sign for Jean.

[Subliminally]

Exodus has left the chat

[Mercury]

Well damn, what did Captain Marvel ever do to them? Also, here's another -

I feel like the list is a bit out of order but a list is a list!

I’ll take all the publicity, thank you!

[Mercury]

Starting to think those other two are clones, and Spider-Man and clones is not a good combination .

Haha! You little minx, you!

Against each other, sure, magic is a bit on the slower side when it comes to getting the spells out, and telepathy is anything but slow, so telepathy is a pretty good counter pick for magic, but I was talking about how magic can do a lot of bullshit once the spells are out, and it's even worse if the magic is poorly defined, 'cause when it's like that, it basically has no limits, like, Kindred, a recent Spidey villain who has magic, gave a guy who's basically a minion, the power to steal any power, including a power like Juggernaut's, with no cost, that's the kind of bullshit magic can do when poorly defined lol.

Yeah, it’s pretty insane. Thankfully, Jean’s telepathy can be predictive.

I was still talking about Wolverine and the X-Men, not Storm in general lol.

Whenever there was a fight there, she didn't make much of a difference, was even likely to get beaten up, and I don't remember her having stuff that really shows her personality besides her episode focused one, and that one time she was flying with Angel, but again, Wolverine and the X-Men sidelines characters, Storm is unfortunately one of 'em, and might be the one among the X-Men who had it worse, which's just baffling.

Gotcha! Another reason for me not to watch it, lol.

So far as I've read, she hasn't been much of a damsel, she does get dizzy whenever she tries to put too much effort, but it doesn't happen much, and she tends to hold her own in fights, and telekinesis is a strong and flexible enough power that she can do stuff others may not manage.

Compared to Sue who initially could only turn invisible, and Janet who was basically made redundant by the fact Ant-Man exists, Jean is doing great by comparison whenever there's a fight, and compared to the rest of the her own team, again, she's doing fine, so far at least.

So far the only time I've seen her getting kidnapped was X-Men#3, and in that one, everyone got kidnapped, and Jean managed to free them under Xavier's instructions (Which, she really should realize by herself that she can use her telekinesis to remove a fucking blindfold lol).

I agree, she definitely faired better than a handful of the other female characters in teams during that era. They still tried diluting her strengths - her power and assertiveness - as you noted, by making her grow faint or incapable of figuring out basic things - that blindfold moment, though 😂😭 - but she was still the student Xavier trusted most and was capable of so much. This is one of my favorite early moments of hers. Even considering the times, Lee knew how to write the woman he created ☝🏼😌 #MultitaskingQueen:

At least that producer is agreeing with it, so that's a good sign for Jean.

Executive producer and exactly. We’re going to win. 😭