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  1. #9826
    Ultimate Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnysv75 View Post
    Thanks! And yes, I loved seeing her doing a powerful feat without breaking a sweat. Reminds me of how Seagle and Bachalo portrayed her on her and Scott’s trip to Alaska.



    Uncanny X-Men #137 was my first X-book. Read it maaany years ago. Fell in love with Jean at once. She was kind, empathetic, funny, charismatic, intelligent, mischievous. She was such a complex and interesting character, and so powerful. To me, Ororo is one of a few X-Men to even come close.

    Jean can sometimes (too often?) be portrayed as the denmother, and I get why some fans think she is boring. But the writers who focus on her caring qualities miss out on what truly makes Jean a fun character to read - she is multifaceted.
    At the same time as she is loving and caring, she has an edge. She is kindhearted at the same time as she has a temper. She can sometimes be hesitant to cut loose with her incredible powers, but there is also nothing she loves better than to truly cut loose with her powers.

    Jean is incredibly complex, and that is why I love her.
    A very good and true review of our Jean!
    [Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El 10-15-2020 12:32 PM]


    "Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."

  2. #9827
    Extraordinary Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    https://twitter.com/xternaIs/status/1464085963294986242

    Jean wanted none of that spice lmfao
    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    On god, can't stand bland food

    It's still hilarious how pissed off she got lmao
    Man it's kinda scary how pissed she sounds, like she's gonna try to kill Gambit if he tries to put some spice in that food .

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnysv75 View Post
    Uncanny X-Men #137 was my first X-book. Read it maaany years ago. Fell in love with Jean at once. She was kind, empathetic, funny, charismatic, intelligent, mischievous. She was such a complex and interesting character, and so powerful. To me, Ororo is one of a few X-Men to even come close.

    Jean can sometimes (too often?) be portrayed as the denmother, and I get why some fans think she is boring. But the writers who focus on her caring qualities miss out on what truly makes Jean a fun character to read - she is multifaceted.
    At the same time as she is loving and caring, she has an edge. She is kindhearted at the same time as she has a temper. She can sometimes be hesitant to cut loose with her incredible powers, but there is also nothing she loves better than to truly cut loose with her powers.

    Jean is incredibly complex, and that is why I love her.
    That sounds like a similar problem Superman has, with people thinking he's too overpowered and a goody two shoes, and while these are traits he has, not the only ones, funny I never noticed Jean has this perception problem too.

    Anyways, when exactly does Jean get her telepathy? I finished the Lee/Kirby run a few days ago, I expected her to get telepathy at some point during it, but it didn't happen, I assume it happened at some point before Claremont, since Marvel Team-Up#4 has Xavier basically using her as a wifi signal to be able to read Morbius' mind, and she had to connect with his mind for Xavier to be able to read it.

  3. #9828
    hate cant reach you here Harpsikord's Avatar
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    Jean starts to "borrow Xavier's telepathy" during the Thomas run, right?
    "We come into this world alone and we leave the same way. The time we spent in between - time spent alive, sharing, learning together... is all that makes life worth living." - Jean Grey

  4. #9829
    Ultimate Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Xavier was said to "share" some of his TP with Jean as he had to "go away" to do secret work (really hiding in seclusion in the sub-basement in preparation to fight the Z'Nox). Xavier only told this to Jean but none of the other X-Men. Xavier then also "shared" some of his TP with the Changeling about this time, and again, only Jean knew these details.

    Jean was in her green Marvel Girl dress at this time.
    Last edited by Phoenixx9; 12-04-2021 at 06:24 PM.
    [Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El 10-15-2020 12:32 PM]


    "Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."

  5. #9830
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    Thanks for sharing Mercury. It was interesting and it is always good to have another Jean fan who really knows her story, history and personality.
    Thank you, love! Same here.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnysv75 View Post
    Uncanny X-Men #137 was my first X-book. Read it maaany years ago. Fell in love with Jean at once. She was kind, empathetic, funny, charismatic, intelligent, mischievous. She was such a complex and interesting character, and so powerful. To me, Ororo is one of a few X-Men to even come close.

    Jean can sometimes (too often?) be portrayed as the denmother, and I get why some fans think she is boring. But the writers who focus on her caring qualities miss out on what truly makes Jean a fun character to read - she is multifaceted.
    At the same time as she is loving and caring, she has an edge. She is kindhearted at the same time as she has a temper. She can sometimes be hesitant to cut loose with her incredible powers, but there is also nothing she loves better than to truly cut loose with her powers.

    Jean is incredibly complex, and that is why I love her.
    I agree with everything you've written.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    Man it's kinda scary how pissed she sounds, like she's gonna try to kill Gambit if he tries to put some spice in that food.
    Ugh, don't get me started on that horrible cartoon. Beau DeMayo is coming to save us!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    That sounds like a similar problem Superman has, with people thinking he's too overpowered and a goody two shoes, and while these are traits he has, not the only ones, funny I never noticed Jean has this perception problem too.
    Honey, Jean gets accused of being everything from a "Care Bear" to someone who maliciously violates people's minds. It's insane the level of vitriol that gets thrown her way. Then again, she's the blueprint for so many others, I understand the psychological need to "come for her," as they say.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    Anyways, when exactly does Jean get her telepathy? I finished the Lee/Kirby run a few days ago, I expected her to get telepathy at some point during it, but it didn't happen, I assume it happened at some point before Claremont, since Marvel Team-Up#4 has Xavier basically using her as a wifi signal to be able to read Morbius' mind, and she had to connect with his mind for Xavier to be able to read it.
    In X-Men #41, it is revealed that Xavier is working with Jean alone on secret "experiments."



    In issue #42, they combine their mental powers - though it isn't specified, one can assume both are using telepathy, with Jean also using telekinesis, in the scene below - to stop the "oscillotron" from reaching "maximum intensity." Later in the same issue, Xavier dies, though it is later revealed that he faked his death and Jean was the only one to whom he revealed this to.



    The first time Jean uses telepathy is in issue #46. She attacks Juggernaut, presumably with a psi-bolt, and notes, "There's been so little time to develop the powers the Professor developed in me..."


  6. #9831
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Issue #48 is a standout issue for Jean, in which it is not only revealed that she has taken up professional modeling but also that her telepathic power has advanced enough to track Cybertron robots, which should be near impossible. In the same issue, Computo assesses her abilities and notes that she has "infinite mental powers."





    By issue #49, she's psi-linking the team.


  7. #9832
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    By issue #52, she's throwing down with Mesmero.


  8. #9833
    Ultimate Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Great posts Mercury. These are so vital to knowing Jean and her powers from long ago. No wonder she is a powerhouse today!

    I love Jean's courage and fearlessness! And not only against Mesmero, but Jean did the same with the Scarlet Witch even much earlier.
    [Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El 10-15-2020 12:32 PM]


    "Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."

  9. #9834
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Love this moment in Uncanny X-Men #51 (1968). Scott and Bobby fighting and Jean voicing her disappointment. Her speech starts at "I wouldn't have believed it..."




  10. #9835
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    Great posts Mercury. These are so vital to knowing Jean and her powers from long ago. No wonder she is a powerhouse today!
    I completely agree. There's this common misconception that she was a weak shrinking violet in the beginning, which is untrue. As a mutual on Twitter commented yesterday in reply to one of my tweets:

    I think these five panels in the first issue is her defining moment. She is a kind person, but don't ever think you can fuck with her.




    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    I love Jean's courage and fearlessness! And not only against Mesmero, but Jean did the same with the Scarlet Witch even much earlier.
    Her attack on Scarlet Witch is in issue #11.


  11. #9836
    Ultimate Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    So true! Thanks for posting that pic of Jean fighting Wanda.

    That took a lot of courage on Jean's part because for so long, Wanda's Hex Power was extremely mysterious and they never knew just what she could do or Wanda's limits. As Jean mentions to a fearful Scott (lol), she had wanted to do this for a long time and Jean must have known more about her own powers and control than we were led to initially believe. Ya go Jean!
    [Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El 10-15-2020 12:32 PM]


    "Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."

  12. #9837
    Incredible Member johnnysv75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    I completely agree. There's this common misconception that she was a weak shrinking violet in the beginning, which is untrue.
    I love the Phoenix saga, I love Jean as Phoenix (the only Phoenixes I count are Jean and Rachel), but one thing I have a problem with is the ”she was once the weakest, now she is the strongest”-part of the story. I always thought that Jean was weak as Marvel Girl - before I read the actual stories. Was she always perfectly portrayed in the original run? No. But it wasn’t the catastrophe I had always pictured.

  13. #9838
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnysv75 View Post
    I love the Phoenix saga, I love Jean as Phoenix (the only Phoenixes I count are Jean and Rachel), but one thing I have a problem with is the ”she was once the weakest, now she is the strongest”-part of the story.
    That's one of the few things Claremont has written about her that I abhor.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnysv75 View Post
    I always thought that Jean was weak as Marvel Girl - before I read the actual stories. Was she always perfectly portrayed in the original run? No. But it wasn’t the catastrophe I had always pictured.
    I was quite surprised by how powerful she was so early on, too, especially since it's often implied that she wasn't.

  14. #9839
    Extraordinary Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harpsikord View Post
    Jean starts to "borrow Xavier's telepathy" during the Thomas run, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    Xavier was said to "share" some of his TP with Jean as he had to "go away" to do secret work (really hiding in seclusion in the sub-basement in preparation to fight the Z'Nox). Xavier only told this to Jean but none of the other X-Men. Xavier then also "shared" some of his TP with the Changeling about this time, and again, only Jean knew these details.

    Jean was in her green Marvel Girl dress at this time.
    Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    Honey, Jean gets accused of being everything from a "Care Bear" to someone who maliciously violates people's minds. It's insane the level of vitriol that gets thrown her way. Then again, she's the blueprint for so many others, I understand the psychological need to "come for her," as they say.
    I was just pointing out this similarity she has with Supes that I didn't realize before, kinda like how a thread in DC forums pointed out that Titans and X-Men were both being fucked over for years at around the same time for some reason lol.

    In X-Men #41, it is revealed that Xavier is working with Jean alone on secret "experiments."
    Man, back in Lee/Kirby run he kept Cerebro a secret from everyone but Cyke for a while, Xavier really kept things a secret for no good reason at times lol.

    In issue #42, they combine their mental powers - though it isn't specified, one can assume both are using telepathy, with Jean also using telekinesis, in the scene below - to stop the "oscillotron" from reaching "maximum intensity." Later in the same issue, Xavier dies, though it is later revealed that he faked his death and Jean was the only one to whom he revealed this to.
    The wording makes it sound like it's only telepathy, but what they're doing is really vague, specially since Xavier is managing to use telepathy on a machine... Which, granted, he could do so in silver age (He specifically couldn't do anything to Sentinels in X-Men#14, but on the very next issue he knocks down 3 of them with telepathy...), but, yeah, doesn't help at specifying what they're doing lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    Issue #48 is a standout issue for Jean, in which it is not only revealed that she has taken up professional modeling but also that her telepathic power has advanced enough to track Cybertron robots, which should be near impossible. In the same issue, Computo assesses her abilities and notes that she has "infinite mental powers."
    Hah, with the Omega level mutant having the current meaning "undefinable upper limit", that lined aged well lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnysv75 View Post
    I love the Phoenix saga, I love Jean as Phoenix (the only Phoenixes I count are Jean and Rachel), but one thing I have a problem with is the ”she was once the weakest, now she is the strongest”-part of the story. I always thought that Jean was weak as Marvel Girl - before I read the actual stories. Was she always perfectly portrayed in the original run? No. But it wasn’t the catastrophe I had always pictured.
    She definitely had it better than Janet under Lee/Kirby, and did have her role on the team.

    She might be said to be the weakest, but honestly, it's weird, 'cause Cyclops is said to be the strongest, and while in raw power he's above everyone, since he did destroy a big ass iceberg in X-Men#9, in battle his powers aren't really flexible, and hell, like Jean he could end up getting dizzy from using his powers too much.

    The most baffling thing when they talk about who the "weak" characters are is including Iceman in this, with how his powers were ridiculously flexible and, at least under Lee/Kirby, he never got tired, it's just questionable to imagine him being one of the weakest, 'cause I never got that impression, specially since he came up with creative ways to use his powers on the fly, so you can't say he was that dumb either.

    As for Jean herself, in raw power she might be one of the weaker characters but, since telekinesis is ridiculously flexible, means that even if she can't lift heavy stuff back then (Which was hella inconsistent 'cause she casually throws a missile in X-Men#1, sometimes gets tired from lifting one person yet casually has lifted more than one in other opportunities...), she still could do a lot, and under Lee/Kirby she was if anything underused, 'cause in battle, Beast, Cyke and Iceman got plenty of attention, but being underused hardly means she was weak, specially that when she got stuff to do, she looked alright.

    So yeah, for both Jean and Iceman, and specially Iceman, in Lee/Kirby run, being the weakest members felt like an informed flaw, same way that Cyclops being the strongest member felt like an informed attribute, and honestly, I can kinda see why Iceman was made into an Omega level mutant, 'cause in Lee/Kirby run, he definitely doesn't look weak lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    That's one of the few things Claremont has written about her that I abhor.
    I guess Claremont just had to force his usual "Weak girl becomes strong" plot .

    I was quite surprised by how powerful she was so early on, too, especially since it's often implied that she wasn't.
    Yeah, informed flaw is in most cases, a pretty annoying trope to deal with lol.

  15. #9840
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    Man, back in Lee/Kirby run he kept Cerebro a secret from everyone but Cyke for a while...
    Hold your horses. The scene below is from issue #20. After being telepathically attacked. Xavier not only lets Jean observe him using Cerebro but instructs her on how to use it, or a portable version of it, herself!



    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    Hah, with the Omega level mutant having the current meaning "undefinable upper limit", that lined aged well lol.
    I love it! lol!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    As for Jean herself, in raw power she might be one of the weaker characters but, since telekinesis is ridiculously flexible, even she can't lift heavy stuff back then...
    At the time, in terms of sheer propulsive force, I would say she was only behind Cyclops. However, in terms of strength, she was behind no one. She shielded herself from Iceman's projectile, caught Quicksilver during midrun, toppled Sentinels and a T-Rex, anchored an air balloon containing the team to Earth from the edges of the stratosphere, was able to levitate and hold Juggernaut in place, and lifted thousands of pounds of steel construction beams several stories up, to list just a few of her feats within the first 20 or so issues.



    (Catch the "teleportation" flub, lol. NOTE: She was literally Marvel's first telekinetic character and the first character to possess both telepathy and telekinesis.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    (Which was hella inconsistent 'cause she casually throws a missile in X-Men#1, sometimes gets tired from lifting one person yet casually has lifted more than one in other opportunities...), she still could do a lot, and under Lee/Kirby she was if anything underused, 'cause in battle, Beast, Cyke and Iceman got plenty of attention, but being underused hardly means she was weak, specially that when she got stuff to do, she looked alright.
    Her powers were definitely depicted inconsistently during the initial run of X-Men. Still, she always had jaw-dropping feats peppered throughout to remind you of just how powerful and versatile she could be. This is one of my favorite Lee/Kirby pages of Jean, which highlights her versatility:



    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    So yeah, for both Jean and Iceman, and specially Iceman, in Lee/Kirby run, being the weakest members felt like an informed flaw, same way that Cyclops being the strongest member felt like an informed attribute, and honestly, I can kinda see why Iceman was made into an Omega level mutant, 'cause in Lee/Kirby run, he definitely doesn't look weak lol.
    Interestingly enough, while Rachel was the first to be classified Omega on panel, Jean and Bobby would be the first mutants to be classified Omega Level mutants.

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