Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[Havok83]

one less planet

Attachment 106424

Its giving me these vibes

[Phoenixx9]

And I didn't see it as Firestar or Jean, I thought it was alluding to Firebird since the woman depicted is a woman of color.

Yes, I also felt that it was more Bonita Suarez Firebird than either Angela or Jean.

[Celestialbodies]

There is a reason given...doesn't mean you have to LIKE it...but to say there has been NO reason given (unless you didn't read PHOENIX:RESURRECTION), is inaccurate at best.
Jean Grey has been divorced from the Phoenix imagery under current editorial. It is characterized as an abusive relationship.
The cycle will turn, but in the mean time...
But in the meantime, you've got me thinking how a PINK PHOENIX might look. A redhead in pink, that's a tough one.

I'm confused, did you read my previous post, I nor the poster I was responding to were discussing the Phoenix Force nor the awful description Rosenberg gave for separating them in Phoenix Resurrection. We were discussing why Jean Grey who at various points has been separated from the Phoenix Force, couldn't use the pink Phoenix imagery under her OWN powers. When she's done so in the 80's, the 90's, and early 00's. None of which has anything to do with Phoenix Resurrection or the Phoenix Force.

Marvel has never retconned an entire run. Ever. So I doubt Hickman’s run will be retconned.

They retconned most of Morrison's run...

Hickman basically initially decided to put several older male characters in the forefront, along with Moira X, and to a lesser degree Emma. Everyone else became background characters.

What happened to Jean was terrible no doubt. Storm got no action till ten of swords. Cyclops got no action until
He and Jean decided to make a team of X-Men.

That’s at least part of the problem. Everyone became Krakoan and there were no X-Men till recently. While I overall like Hickman I think he forgot which mutant characters fans actually liked......

Its taken him this long to put together in real X-Men te. Don’t me me wrong, I love a mutant society in all but Hickman spent so much time on the big picture he forgot the details.

Which is a recurring theme across his works, the guys usually make the decisions and lead the narrative while the girls usually react to it.

[Celestialbodies]

Articles are calling her a Firestar homage. However it seems that dang near everything in that show is being speculated as being an Easter egg.

https://comicbook.com/tv-shows/news/...ossible-major/

See below!

And I didn't see it as Firestar or Jean, I thought it was alluding to Firebird since the woman depicted is a woman of color.

Yes, I also felt that it was more Bonita Suarez Firebird than either Angela or Jean.

The same thing I thought:




Looked like Firebird to me or a homage as least!

[andreikes]

Its giving me these vibes

I had a notebook with this photo, when I was younger. Had to choose between wolverine and another character '-'

[Phoenixx9]

See below!







The same thing I thought:




Looked like Firebird to me or a homage as least!

Bonita looks so good in that pic! It is a shame she and Jean never met.

[Celestialbodies]

Bonita looks so good in that pic! It is a shame she and Jean never met.

Oddly enough, Jean is why I learned of Bonita, years ago I was researching characters with similar aesthetics and there she was I'd be lying if I said I didn't imagine Jean as Phoenix as an Avenger!


Oh and Bonita is serving in that cape, I always wondered what a Phoenix costume would look like with a cape, John Byrne's original ideas for the Phoenix costume notwithstanding!

[Phoenixx9]

Oddly enough, Jean is why I learned of Bonita, years ago I was researching characters with similar aesthetics and there she was I'd be lying if I said I didn't imagine Jean as Phoenix as an Avenger!


Oh and Bonita is serving in that cape, I always wondered what a Phoenix costume would look like with a cape, John Byrne's original ideas for the Phoenix costume notwithstanding!

I do not know if your researching included this fact but early in Jean's History after Dark Phoenix died on the Moon, Marvel made note that Bonita "received a firey visitor on the night of Jean Grey's Death". They never went more into detail, but left it open that perhaps The PF visited Bonita. (It did not. Some kind of fire/fire energy fell from the sky near Bonita which is how she gained her powers.)

Later, Marvel 'retconned' Bonita's source of her powers as an alien child's discarded science experiment that was hurled from the ship. It was still a fiery source that fell to Earth, but totally eliminated any connection to the PF.

[whitecrown]

I'm confused, did you read my previous post, I nor the poster I was responding to were discussing the Phoenix Force nor the awful description Rosenberg gave for separating them in Phoenix Resurrection. We were discussing why Jean Grey who at various points has been separated from the Phoenix Force, couldn't use the pink Phoenix imagery under her OWN powers. When she's done so in the 80's, the 90's, and early 00's. None of which has anything to do with Phoenix Resurrection or the Phoenix Force.

The first X-Men Legends game gave her the pink Phoenix imagery. The first few issues of Uncanny X-Men: First Class also gave her the pink firebird until it turned orange and fiery towards the end. Claremont also seemed to favor it during his Revolution run.

I do not know if your researching included this fact but early in Jean's History after Dark Phoenix died on the Moon, Marvel made note that Bonita "received a firey visitor on the night of Jean Grey's Death". They never went more into detail, but left it open that perhaps The PF visited Bonita. (It did not. Some kind of fire/fire energy fell from the sky near Bonita which is how she gained her powers.)

Later, Marvel 'retconned' Bonita's source of her powers as an alien child's discarded science experiment that was hurled from the ship. It was still a fiery source that fell to Earth, but totally eliminated any connection to the PF.

That's really neat that originally her origin was because of the Phoenix. Nice that she had a link with Jean even if it didn't last.

[Celestialbodies]

I do not know if your researching included this fact but early in Jean's History after Dark Phoenix died on the Moon, Marvel made note that Bonita "received a firey visitor on the night of Jean Grey's Death". They never went more into detail, but left it open that perhaps The PF visited Bonita. (It did not. Some kind of fire/fire energy fell from the sky near Bonita which is how she gained her powers.)

Later, Marvel 'retconned' Bonita's source of her powers as an alien child's discarded science experiment that was hurled from the ship. It was still a fiery source that fell to Earth, but totally eliminated any connection to the PF.

No, I did NOT know this at all, and yet another reason I love comic fans because you find out tidbits of information like this. Given how freely the PF is used now it's almost funny that they changed the reasoning behind her power. Although it would have been insane if, following Jean's death the PF went to Bonita instead of Rachel.

[Havok83]

I could be wrong but I believe the first time she exhibited a pink Phoenix (sans the PF) was in mid 90s X-men

[Phoenixx9]

The first X-Men Legends game gave her the pink Phoenix imagery. The first few issues of Uncanny X-Men: First Class also gave her the pink firebird until it turned orange and fiery towards the end. Claremont also seemed to favor it during his Revolution run.




That's really neat that originally her origin was because of the Phoenix. Nice that she had a link with Jean even if it didn't last.

No, I did NOT know this at all, and yet another reason I love comic fans because you find out tidbits of information like this. Given how freely the PF is used now it's almost funny that they changed the reasoning behind her power. Although it would have been insane if, following Jean's death the PF went to Bonita instead of Rachel.

Always glad to share what I know. I always loved that potential part with Bonita.

Yes, that is also what I like about our fandom here....we get to share information and learn so much!

[Celestialbodies]

The first X-Men Legends game gave her the pink Phoenix imagery. The first few issues of Uncanny X-Men: First Class also gave her the pink firebird until it turned orange and fiery towards the end. Claremont also seemed to favor it during his Revolution run.





That's really neat that originally her origin was because of the Phoenix. Nice that she had a link with Jean even if it didn't last.

Current Jean only needs a few tweaks and she could be so much more, like at this point it is definitely intentional. Taking Hickman out of the equation Jean's entire roll out after returning was botched imo. X-men Red which was the highlight, but it never received it's due while it was ongoing, in fact the X-men Gold squad were often situated in the greater Marvel as the flagship line up.

[whitecrown]

Current Jean only needs a few tweaks and she could be so much more, like at this point it is definitely intentional. Taking Hickman out of the equation Jean's entire roll out after returning was botched imo. X-men Red which was the highlight, but it never received it's due while it was ongoing, in fact the X-men Gold squad were often situated in the greater Marvel as the flagship line up.

Exactly, I don't know how there can be any Hickman fans on here when he derailed Jean's most prominent period and sidelined her. I have no intention of reading any X-Men comics until this hack has been replaced by somebody else so the quicker the X-Men come into the MCU, the better, so that the comics match up.

It also didn't help that Jean was leading the X-Men in a period where Scott and Logan were both dead. I'm fine with Logan returning because that was inevitable and I'd like to see him interact with Jean, but Jean really needed that time away from Scott considering how the second he comes back, the writers treat Jean like his property and like the X-Men can't function unless the stories revolve around him again. He needed to stay dead longer.

[Celestialbodies]

I could be wrong but I believe the first time she exhibited a pink Phoenix (sans the PF) was in mid 90s X-men

I thought it might have been this, but don't quote me I have no idea if during this specific issue, she was still hosting Madelyn and the Phoenix's memories!

Exactly, I don't know how there can be any Hickman fans on here when he derailed Jean's most prominent period and sidelined her. I have no intention of reading any X-Men comics until this hack has been replaced by somebody else so the quicker the X-Men come into the MCU, the better, so that the comics match up.

It also didn't help that Jean was leading the X-Men in a period where Scott and Logan were both dead. I'm fine with Logan returning because that was inevitable and I'd like to see him interact with Jean, but Jean really needed that time away from Scott considering how the second he comes back, the writers treat Jean like his property and like the X-Men can't function unless the stories revolve around him again. He needed to stay dead longer.

I can be fully transparent, I'm a huge fan of Hickman I think he has interesting ideas, and his plots are exactly what the current era of X-men desperately needs. I think he has a tremendously handle on the majority of his ever expanding cast, and I think he moreso than any writer before him, certainly in the modern era. Is unafraid to experiment, but also push for characters into new and exciting roles. My absolute FAVORITE thing about this era is how well he has seamlessly included so many character all across his books in meaningful ways.


That said he has a proclivity to using specific characters and those few usually gray-area types receive the most developments. He also will make sure to establish them in ways that are instrumental to whatever story he's telling. While those he isn't fond adopt personality transplants, which brings us to his Jean who remains the weakest version of the character by far, and he has yet to use her in 2 years in anyway other than reacting to narrative changes, she is never responsible for the shifts. And I don't know why he's chosen this particular characterization for her, but it is so bland, boring, and uninspired.