Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Absolutes are hyperbole. There is no mechanical impossibility stopping someone from writing a good story about some other insert character getting the Phoenix. It's just a matter of whether creators respect Jean Grey as a character, which no they do not at all. So it's lame leader's assistant role, "try harder Marvel girl", giving up on anything difficult, some random Sonichu character stealing her powers, etc for the foreseeable future.

Just gotta remind myself that in the grand scheme of time, one day, there will be a big Jean fan at the head of the X-office. Unless we destroy the planet/ourselves before then lolol.

[Mercury]

Absolutes are hyperbole. There is no mechanical impossibility stopping someone from writing a good story about some other insert character getting the Phoenix. It's just a matter of whether creators respect Jean Grey as a character, which no they do not at all. So it's lame leader's assistant role, "try harder Marvel girl", giving up on anything difficult, some random Sonichu character stealing her powers, etc for the foreseeable future.

Just gotta remind myself that in the grand scheme of time, one day, there will be a big Jean fan at the head of the X-office. Unless we destroy the planet/ourselves before then lolol.

Kitty, I give you shit and disagree with a lot of what you say, including about half of this post, but I love ya, you smart ass, you! 😂❤️🙏🏼

[Spiderfan001]

Absolutes are hyperbole. There is no mechanical impossibility stopping someone from writing a good story about some other insert character getting the Phoenix. It's just a matter of whether creators respect Jean Grey as a character, which no they do not at all. So it's lame leader's assistant role, "try harder Marvel girl", giving up on anything difficult, some random Sonichu character stealing her powers, etc for the foreseeable future.

Just gotta remind myself that in the grand scheme of time, one day, there will be a big Jean fan at the head of the X-office. Unless we destroy the planet/ourselves before then lolol.

Do you not think this era has respected her?

And what era do you think did?

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Do you not think this era has respected her?

And what era do you think did?

Not really. I thought Percy was headed for some extremely good Jean content but that petered out and kinda undid the good work he did with her. Having her quit X-Force is just a tragically bad look for the character. I'll say Duggan has been totally inoffensive, even if there is nothing to write home about.

As far as eras where she had a presence and a narrative that explored her actions and reactions, we gotta include:

X-Factor

Gotta say Revolution, even if it's not the most amazing thing Claremont ever did.

The teenage Jean stuff, if that even counts

Morrison (even though his ultimate aim, killing her to give his insert a new girlfriend, was pretty disrespectful)

and X-Men Red (even though Tom Taylor didn't quite have her character rounded out - a little bit of CareBear)

Kitty, I give you shit and disagree with a lot of what you say, including about half of this post, but I love ya, you smart ass, you! ��❤️����

I try to say my bitter truth with a little bit of flair lololol

[Mercury]

Not really. I thought Percy was headed for some extremely good Jean content but that petered out and kinda undid the good work he did with her. Having her quit X-Force is just a tragically bad look for the character. I'll say Duggan has been totally inoffensive, even if there is nothing to write home about.

As far as eras where she had a presence and a narrative that explored her actions and reactions, we gotta include:

X-Factor

Gotta say Revolution, even if it's not the most amazing thing Claremont ever did.

The teenage Jean stuff, if that even counts

Morrison (even though his ultimate aim, killing her to give his insert a new girlfriend, was pretty disrespectful)

and X-Men Red (even though Tom Taylor didn't quite have her character rounded out - a little bit of CareBear)

I try to say my bitter truth with a little bit of flair lololol

And you’re entitled to! Also, we share some favorite eras.

[Lukmendes]

Wouldn't totally spare it. Like Hickman, dudebros would still want to take the Phoenix away from Jean to give it to Cyclops or whoever their insert male is. But yeah, it would lessen the lameness a little. At least it wouldn't be Thor's mom or whatever.

True I guess, we could still get stupid ideas like revealing the Phoenix was Apocalypse's mother instead of Thor's or somethin' lol.

Pretty sure most people don't want their fav to get the phoenix, as someone who read Maya Lopez before this I wish they took it away from her and back into limbo.Phoenix is way too messed up to benefit any character, unless written by a highly competent writer and even then only works for Jean, Rachel and from the looks of it Hope

It's sad Phoenix became this "It messes up characters" shit lol.

I can understand to a certain extent for to make Phoenix not something that can be controlled or even used that easily, but post AvX she became actively malicious, and for a cosmic being, that's boring.

[Starchilde]

True I guess, we could still get stupid ideas like revealing the Phoenix was Apocalypse's mother instead of Thor's or somethin' lol.

Don't give Aaron ideas, I'm 100% sure he is dying to make Phoenix Sabah Nur happen lmao

[Mercury]

True I guess, we could still get stupid ideas like revealing the Phoenix was Apocalypse's mother instead of Thor's or somethin' lol.



It's sad Phoenix became this "It messes up characters" shit lol.

I can understand to a certain extent for to make Phoenix not something that can be controlled or even used that easily, but post AvX she became actively malicious, and for a cosmic being, that's boring.

Morrison’s Phoenix will always be peak Phoenix. She was living, eating, and providing sustenance to all. Morrison needed to have convinced Marvel to let them write a White Phoenix series and leave them the fuck alone.

[Lukmendes]

Don't give Aaron ideas, I'm 100% sure he is dying to make Phoenix Sabah Nur happen lmao

Oh please, don't give me this much credit, making Phoenix be Odin's booty call is so unironically dumb that I would never, ever, manage to come up with something like that even if I was actively trying, dumb stuff I come up with is too tame, 'cause at the very, very least, Phoenix being Apocalypse's mother is still keeping her in the X-Men, so yeah, Aaron will never try to rip me off :P.

Morrison’s Phoenix will always be peak Phoenix. She was living, eating, and providing sustenance to all. Morrison needed to have convinced Marvel to let them write a White Phoenix series and leave them the fuck alone.

The art in this is really good, but man the "////" dialogue gets annoying fast lol.



(New X-Men#154).

I like to think Jean says this line because the dialogue is that incomprehensible .

Anyways, I remember hearing Morrison had plans for Jean but they told him to kill her off, can only wonder what he'd do.

I wish Morrison at least gave Jean a cooler looking death, 'cause while we get text saying "Oh I gave you a planet sized stroke", what we see is Magneto lightly touching her hand and she dies from it, and that's in the same issue that shows her leaving the fucking sun, that also clearly establishes she just resurrected...

[Spiderfan001]

Not really. I thought Percy was headed for some extremely good Jean content but that petered out and kinda undid the good work he did with her. Having her quit X-Force is just a tragically bad look for the character. I'll say Duggan has been totally inoffensive, even if there is nothing to write home about.

As far as eras where she had a presence and a narrative that explored her actions and reactions, we gotta include:

X-Factor

Gotta say Revolution, even if it's not the most amazing thing Claremont ever did.

The teenage Jean stuff, if that even counts

Morrison (even though his ultimate aim, killing her to give his insert a new girlfriend, was pretty disrespectful)

and X-Men Red (even though Tom Taylor didn't quite have her character rounded out - a little bit of CareBear)

I try to say my bitter truth with a little bit of flair lololol

Agreed on the fav eras, I see your point better know.Thanks!

True I guess, we could still get stupid ideas like revealing the Phoenix was Apocalypse's mother instead of Thor's or somethin' lol.

It's sad Phoenix became this "It messes up characters" shit lol.

I can understand to a certain extent for to make Phoenix not something that can be controlled or even used that easily, but post AvX she became actively malicious, and for a cosmic being, that's boring.

Absolutely, also stop giving them ideas my guy

[Lukmendes]

Absolutely, also stop giving them ideas my guy

Oh come on, at this point Phoenix being Apocalypse's mother wouldn't hurt that much, it's like being punched in the face when you're used to the pain of being hit by a car .

And again, it's p̶r̶o̶b̶a̶b̶l̶y not happening, stuff like Momma Apocalypse and that silly idea about Spidey's 60th anniversary having Alpha take it over again to introduce his own sidekick, it's p̶r̶o̶b̶a̶b̶l̶y not happening, Marvel has better people to get lame ideas from .

[Harpsikord]

Just dropping a reminder that Grant Morrison uses they/them pronouns.

[Vishop]

Sure. I'm actually okay with a character propping another. To a point. It must respect their personal history and characterization. Jean is a loving person who sees the best in people. She's a good candidate, but the rest of her characterization still has to be respected for the scene to feel natural.

But anyway, just because it's happened before it doesn't mean it's always right.

There is no such degree or scale to measure these things in a singular conversation.
Percy may have implied this to his early days when Logan meet Jean. Also it wasn't about Jean obviously, she has become a supporting character now in this book after she left. The main focus will always go to main characters in hand.
What Jean said about Logan is actually quite true, about being a friend or part of family that is X-Men. I don't think he has ever left behind anyone he has met, even with Scott.

[Mercury]

Anyways, I remember hearing Morrison had plans for Jean but they told him to kill her off, can only wonder what he'd do.

I think Morrison would’ve reached new heights writing Jean, especially if they continued with her being White Phoenix. Morrison is a magician and heavy into metaphysics, so I can picture them writing a trippy and existential cosmic tale. It would’ve been sublime.

There is no such degree or scale to measure these things in a singular conversation.
Percy may have implied this to his early days when Logan meet Jean. Also it wasn't about Jean obviously, she has become a supporting character now in this book after she left. The main focus will always go to main characters in hand.
What Jean said about Logan is actually quite true, about being a friend or part of family that is X-Men. I don't think he has ever left behind anyone he has met, even with Scott.

Agree 💯%.

[Grinning Soul]

There is no such degree or scale to measure these things in a singular conversation.
Percy may have implied this to his early days when Logan meet Jean. Also it wasn't about Jean obviously, she has become a supporting character now in this book after she left. The main focus will always go to main characters in hand.
What Jean said about Logan is actually quite true, about being a friend or part of family that is X-Men. I don't think he has ever left behind anyone he has met, even with Scott.

I'm not actually disagreeing with you in essence. It's all in the execution of a scene.

Like I said in the previous post, I actually don't have a problem with using a character to prop another and Jean is a good character for this role because she is kind and she sees the best in people, so it's easy to write a scene that feels natural to her. And I also agree that, unlikely as it might seem when you consider he often behaves as a lone wolf, Logan is actually a great friend. Or, at least, he genuinely tries.

But, as a matter of simple opinion - and I suppose we disagree here - the execution of the scene was poor.