Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[Gnostic]

I don't think they're gonna be focused on the multiverse forever. It's the main focus now because it's new and they're just starting to explore it. But I think that, like in the comics you can be doing a bunch of AU stuff sometimes/on the side but the main universe needs to stand on its own.

There are many ways they can go about it in regards to Deadpool. He could bring his cast too. He could have his movies in his own universe but hop to the main MCU in other movies.

And regardless of that my main point is: Hope is not a relevant enough character for Marvel to want her as one of the first X-Men. She was created for a plot that the MCU isn't gonna be doing any time soon (Decimation).

Well…

spoilers:

Plot leaks suggests that Wanda is going to perform a feat equivalent to decimation. Not wiping out mutant-kind of course, but it is definitely inspired by M-day. The trailer for Multiverse of Madness do suggest that there is some truth to these leaks. That is why I think will adapt some elements of the Messiah Saga.

end of spoilers

[Mercury]

Well…

spoilers:

Plot leaks suggests that Wanda is going to perform a feat equivalent to decimation. Not wiping out mutant-kind of course, but it is definitely inspired by M-day. The trailer for Multiverse of Madness do suggest that there is some truth to these leaks. That is why I think will adapt some elements of the Messiah Saga.

end of spoilers

Marvel is known for not being faithful in its adaptations. Also, I can see them adapting the White Phoenix segment from “Here Comes Tomorrow” to make it so that a Marvel/X-Men A-lister—Jean—saves the day by repairing the universe much as she did in the aforementioned epilogue to Morrison’s run. It would be a great way of adapting a Jean-Phoenix story from the comics while subverting expectations.

[Spiderfan001]

If the MCU introduce anyone else as Phoenix but Jean, I’m going to have five strokes and an aneurysm.

They did make 2 adaptations of Jean being phoenix in live action alone so while I doubt it will go to Echo I can see the Hope thing being true.Even then I think Jean will get a shot at it first whether through multiverse or just normally.

Also, it was rumored that Josh Brolin will return as Cable. Isn’t he known for traveling to alternate timelines? They also made a character from the Sony films into 616 Spider-Man’s greatest enemy.

Since Thanos will likely never return(maybe in Secret wars way down the line) I can see this

[Wiccan]

Well…

spoilers:

Plot leaks suggests that Wanda is going to perform a feat equivalent to decimation. Not wiping out mutant-kind of course, but it is definitely inspired by M-day. The trailer for Multiverse of Madness do suggest that there is some truth to these leaks. That is why I think will adapt some elements of the Messiah Saga.

end of spoilers

There are no mutants to be decimated. And they're not gonna do that right after they're introduced. MOM can only be "inspired by M-Day" as much as WandaVision was inspired by House of M. Aka only the very broad idea of Wanda doing messed up reality shennanigans with her powers. It's a big reach to assume they're adapting the Messiah Complex and Hope just because of that.

[Mercury]

They did make 2 adaptations of Jean being phoenix in live action alone so while I doubt it will go to Echo I can see the Hope thing being true.Even then I think Jean will get a shot at it first whether through multiverse or just normally.

This exactly how I feel. Despite the myriad retcons and current status quo, Jean is still the character most associated with the Phoenix Force, both amongst comic book fans and in general popular culture. I mean, before debuting Dark Phoenix on Fortnite, even Donald Mustard chose to hint at the release in the following way, which he later quoted once she officially debuted:

Did you ever have the most perfect pair of jeans ever? And then one day they inexplicably disappeared?! And you were like… I bet ‘they’ are to blame!!! Yeah. That one. The one that didn’t like ‘em. But I loved ‘em. They made me feel great. And comfy.

#missyouperfectjeans

https://mobile.twitter.com/DonaldMus...28809206943746

Jean is simply synonymous with Phoenix across all quarters. I have a hunch Feige will want to capitalize on her established and longstanding popularity, especially, as you noted, since Jean has already been established as Phoenix several times on film, in cartoons, and in myriad video games.

[Gnostic]

There are no mutants to be decimated. And they're not gonna do that right after they're introduced. MOM can only be "inspired by M-Day" as much as WandaVision was inspired by House of M. Aka only the very broad idea of Wanda doing messed up reality shennanigans with her powers. It's a big reach to assume they're adapting the Messiah Complex and Hope just because of that.

I want to change the subject a little bit. Speaking of their introduction…Between the Celestials not tampering with human genetics and Oscorp not existing, I’m starting to think that mutants don’t exist in the 616 MCU.

[Spiderfan001]

This exactly how I feel. Despite the myriad retcons and current status quo, Jean is still the character most associated with the Phoenix Force, both amongst comic book fans and in general popular culture. I mean, before debuting Dark Phoenix on Fortnite, even Donald Mustard chose to hint at the release in the following way, which he later quoted once she officially debuted:



Jean is simply synonymous with Phoenix across all quarters. I have a hunch Feige will want to capitalize on her established and longstanding popularity, especially, as you noted, since Jean has already been established as Phoenix several times on film, in cartoons, and in myriad video games.

While I agree that Jean is def. synonymous w/ the phoenix I also think MCU is at a point where they can(and have) deviated from stuff like this because they are strong enough too.

The fact that it's been done twice in live action alone and also in the animated show they are adapting leads me to believe that while she will have a connection w/ the PF it might not go to her.Maybe Rachel or as some pointed out Hope

[Gnostic]

While I agree that Jean is def. synonymous w/ the phoenix I also think MCU is at a point where they can(and have) deviated from stuff like this because they are strong enough too.

The fact that it's been done twice in live action alone and also in the animated show they are adapting leads me to believe that while she will have a connection w/ the PF it might not go to her.Maybe Rachel or as some pointed out Hope

I think Jean (played by Famke Janssen) mentoring Rachel/Hope from the White Hot Room would be an interesting direction.

[Mercury]

While I agree that Jean is def. synonymous w/ the phoenix I also think MCU is at a point where they can(and have) deviated from stuff like this because they are strong enough too.

The fact that it's been done twice in live action alone and also in the animated show they are adapting leads me to believe that while she will have a connection w/ the PF it might not go to her.Maybe Rachel or as some pointed out Hope

Honestly—and this might just be wishful thinking on my part—I think it is likelier that they steer away from the Dark Phoenix Saga and simply adapt Grant Morrison’s take on Jean’s relationship with the Phoenix Force, including her evolution to White Phoenix of the Crown. Morrison’s run is well-respected and his take on Jean’s Phoenix would be perceived as fresh and new—again, a subversion of expectations—and the next logical evolutionary step of the character by the general moviegoer. Doing this would also eliminate both the need to establish new characters and running the risk of alienating fans who may not be so willing to accept another character as Phoenix, as you noted, precisely because it has only been adapted as a Jean story.

It’ll be interesting to see how all of this unfolds.

[Exodus]

Honestly—and this might just be wishful thinking on my part—I think it is likelier that they steer away from the Dark Phoenix Saga and simply adapt Grant Morrison’s take on Jean’s relationship with the Phoenix Force, including her evolution to White Phoenix of the Crown. Morrison’s run is well-respected and his take on Jean’s Phoenix would be perceived as fresh and new—again, a subversion of expectations—and the next logical evolutionary step of the character by the general moviegoer. Doing this would also eliminate both the need to establish new characters and running the risk of alienating fans who may not be so willing to accept another character as Phoenix, as you noted, precisely because it has only been adapted as a Jean story.

It’ll be interesting to see how all of this unfolds.

When I'm looking at the new Spider-Man trilogy, I'm afraid we will be happy if Jean will be even part of the MCU team...I think they will concentrate on more unknown X-Men, storylines, and obscure villains. I guess we will see the Savage Land in X-Men 1 and Murder World in X-Men 2...

Jean and the Phoenix has been adapted twice in less than 10 years.

[Mercury]

When I'm looking at the new Spider-Man trilogy, I'm afraid we will be happy if Jean will be even part of the MCU team...I think they will concentrate on more unknown X-Men, storylines, and obscure villains. I guess we will see the Savage Land in X-Men 1 and Murder World in X-Men 2...

Jean and the Phoenix has been adapted twice in less than 10 years.

You may have a point regarding Phoenix making an appearance at all, but never discount the redhead. She’s going to be front and center again in X-Men ‘97. It’s no small coincidence that this is technically Marvel Studios’ first production centered on mutants. I think they’re using it—and the characters within it—as a template upon which to build their cinematic iteration of the X-Men.

Just like Marvel Studios’ adaptation of Avengers was centered on the classic team and not the myriad rosters it has manifested as throughout the years, I think their adaptation of X-Men will follow suit and gradually expand to include other characters once the core group, of which Jean will undoubtedly be a part, is established.

I was skeptical at first, but after seeing that they chose to begin their venture into the world of mutants with a revival of XTAS, I’m convinced Jean will be included in the first X-Men film. If the rumors are true that she will appear in DS2: MoM, then it’s even more definite that she will appear in the first film.

This is an exciting time!

[Gnostic]

When I'm looking at the new Spider-Man trilogy, I'm afraid we will be happy if Jean will be even part of the MCU team...I think they will concentrate on more unknown X-Men, storylines, and obscure villains. I guess we will see the Savage Land in X-Men 1 and Murder World in X-Men 2...

Jean and the Phoenix has been adapted twice in less than 10 years.

You may have a point regarding Phoenix making an appearance at all, but never discount the redhead. She’s going to be front and center again in X-Men ‘97. It’s no small coincidence that this is technically Marvel Studios’ first production centered on mutants. I think they’re using it—and the characters within it—as a template upon which to build their cinematic iteration of the X-Men.

Just like Marvel Studios’ adaptation of Avengers was centered on the classic team and not the myriad rosters it has manifested as throughout the years, I think their adaptation of X-Men will follow suit and gradually expand to include other characters once the core group, of which Jean will undoubtedly be a part, is established.

I was skeptical at first, but after seeing that they chose to begin their venture into the world of mutants with a revival of XTAS, I’m convinced Jean will be included in the first X-Men film. If the rumors are true that she will appear in DS2: MoM, then it’s even more definite that she will appear in the first film.

This is an exciting time!

I think we’re going to see Jean/Phoenix in live-action in some form again. Because in Dark Phoenix, Jean gives a voiceover at the end of the movie saying: “This is not the end of me or the X-Men. Its a new beginning.”

I talked to ViewerAnon (one of the leakers of Multiverse of Madness) who saw a screening of the movie in early 2019 and he said that line wasn’t in the version he saw. Simon Kinberg in the commentary confirmed that was a last minute addition. So that line was likely added after the Disney merger was finalized. In hindsight, it is clear that line was foreshadowing as Patrick Stewart said that his conversation with Feige happened in late 2019. Just a few months after Dark Phoenix’s release. Like I said earlier, Marvel secretly introduced the M’Kraan Crystal/Panoptichron in What If. Here is an article about it:

https://screenrant.com/xmen-mcu-loca...-if-introduce/


Speaking of the MCU Spider-Man trilogy, No Way Home adapted elements of One More Day. Spider-Man fans generally hate that storyline but the movie used its elements to great effect. So here is a fun/crazy idea: What if Marvel Studios does the same thing and takes elements from a hated X-Men story but uses it in a cool way? Hear me out.

What if the Deadpool movies become “Cable & Deadpool” movies instead, like how the Ant-Man movies became Ant-Man & Wasp movies. Rachel is introduced as the older sister of Cable and their origin is explored. They are revealed to be the children of Scott and Jean, who have inherited the cosmic power of their mother (which emanates from Cable’s left eye). Hope had also inherited this power from her father.

However, it is later revealed that their mother/grandmother isn’t really Jean. The Jean we saw at the end of DOFP was a clone created by the original Jean/Phoenix at the end of the Dark Phoenix movie when she flies back to Earth. Jean did this to make Scott happy while she continued to fly through space as the Phoenix/Dark Phoenix, consuming stars throughout the cosmos relishing in power.

Jean grew more powerful with each star she consumed. Eventually, she evolved into the White Phoenix and ascends into a higher plane of existence in the White Hot Room. But before her final evolution happened, she carelessly destroyed the Shi’Ar home planet. Lilandra leads the Imperial Guard to Earth to kill Cable, Rachel, and Hope to prevent another Phoenix from raising in a live-action adaptation of “The Phoenix Must Die” and “End of Greys”.

Basically, it is the Phoenix clone retcon but in reverse. The Dark Phoenix that destroys a planet and “dies” is the real Jean. While the Phoenix-created clone is essentially Madelyne Pryor.

I should note, that this is NOT a theory or anything. Just me having fun with some ideas.

[Starchilde]

I think we’re going to see Jean/Phoenix in live-action in some form again. Because in Dark Phoenix, Jean gives a voiceover at the end of the movie saying: “This is not the end of me or the X-Men. Its a new beginning.”

I talked to ViewerAnon (one of the leakers of Multiverse of Madness) who saw a screening of the movie in early 2019 and he said that line wasn’t in the version he saw. Simon Kinberg in the commentary confirmed that was a last minute addition. So that line was likely added after the Disney merger was finalized. In hindsight, it is clear that line was foreshadowing as Patrick Stewart said that his conversation with Feige happened in late 2019. Just a few months after Dark Phoenix’s release. Like I said earlier, Marvel secretly introduced the M’Kraan Crystal/Panoptichron in What If. Here is an article about it:

https://screenrant.com/xmen-mcu-loca...-if-introduce/


Speaking of the MCU Spider-Man trilogy, No Way Home adapted elements of One More Day. Spider-Man fans generally hate that storyline but the movie used its elements to great effect. So here is a fun/crazy idea: What if Marvel Studios does the same thing and takes elements from a hated X-Men story but uses it in a cool way? Hear me out.

What if the Deadpool movies become “Cable & Deadpool” movies instead, like how the Ant-Man movies becomes Ant-Man & Wasp movies. Rachel is introduced as the older sister of Cable and their origin is explored. They are revealed to be the children of Scott and Jean, who have inherited the cosmic power of their mother (which emanates from Cable’s left eye). Hope had also inherited this power from her father.

However, it is later revealed that their mother/grandmother isn’t really Jean. The Jean we saw at the end of DOFP was a clone created by the original Jean/Phoenix at the end of the Dark Phoenix movie when she flies back to Earth. Jean did this to make Scott happy while she continued to fly through space as the Phoenix/Dark Phoenix, consuming stars throughout the cosmos relishing in power.

Jean grew more powerful with each star she consumed. Eventually, she evolved into the White Phoenix and ascends into a higher plane of existence in the White Hot Room. But before her final evolution happened, she carelessly destroys the Shi’Ar home planet. Lilandra leads the Imperial Guard to Earth to kill Cable, Rachel, and Hope to prevent another Phoenix from raising in a live-action adaptation of “The Phoenix Must Die” and “End of Greys”.

Basically, it is the Phoenix clone retcon but in reverse. The Dark Phoenix that destroys a planet and “dies” is the real Jean. While the Phoenix-created clone is essentially Madelyne Pryor.

I should note, that this is NOT a theory or anything. Just me having fun with some ideas.

I don’t want Jean to suffer the Janet Van Dyne treatment of the MCU, she better not be in those movies if they are going to use her as backstory only. And personally I have zero interest in Phoenix Hope. She can have her guns and her copycat powers. Leave the Phoenix for the OG

[WallStreeter]

Marvel is known for not being faithful in its adaptations. Also, I can see them adapting the White Phoenix segment from “Here Comes Tomorrow” to make it so that a Marvel/X-Men A-lister—Jean—saves the day by repairing the universe much as she did in the aforementioned epilogue to Morrison’s run. It would be a great way of adapting a Jean-Phoenix story from the comics while subverting expectations.

It’s a character appearing out of nowhere to save the day? They won’t do that.

Because it’s poor writing. You need to introduce a character to the audiences and build them
Up. Not just have white Phoenix of the crown appear and save the days by snapping her fingers.

[Gnostic]

I don’t want Jean to suffer the Janet Van Dyne treatment of the MCU, she better not be in those movies if they are going to use her as backstory only. And personally I really have zero interest in Phoenix Hope. She can have her guns and her copycat powers. Leave the Phoenix for the OG

I would make White Phoenix Jean the equivalent of a force ghost. Have her interact with Cable, Rachel, and Hope. Help them on their emotional arc.