Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[Gnostic]

I would make White Phoenix Jean the equivalent of a force ghost. Have her interact with Cable, Rachel, and Hope. Help them on their emotional arc.

Plus, was literally done in the Jean Grey series.

[Gnostic]

I didn’t notice this before, but Jean looks like Famke Janssen in that image. Just look at those eyebrows!

[Starchilde]

I would make White Phoenix Jean the equivalent of a force ghost. Have her interact with Cable, Rachel, and Hope. Help them on their emotional arc.

It’s the same as what happened with Janet. Problematic backstory so she is erased and her role is given to a new, younger, “freer” girl. Becomes a ghost that gives her relatives the sad and serves as a motivation. Somewhat the husband is still alive and doing his things.

[Gnostic]

It’s the same as what happened with Janet. Problematic backstory so she is erased and her role is given to a new, younger, “freer” girl. Becomes a ghost that gives her relatives the sad and serves as a motivation. Somewhat the husband is still alive and doing his things.

Well, Cyclops was among the X-Men that died in Logan. So it would be Jean mourning him. Plus, Jean wouldn’t be their mother/grandmother but the clone that Charles killed. It isn’t the same dynamic as with Janet and Hank.

[Lukmendes]

Uncanny X-Men 245

It has one of my favorite..."You should really leave those humans alone." moments
Attachment 116431

Thanks.

If the MCU introduce anyone else as Phoenix but Jean, I’m going to have five strokes and an aneurysm.

Be ready to call the hospital, just in case .

I don't think they're gonna be focused on the multiverse forever. It's the main focus now because it's new and they're just starting to explore it. But I think that, like in the comics you can be doing a bunch of AU stuff sometimes/on the side but the main universe needs to stand on its own.

There are many ways they can go about it in regards to Deadpool. He could bring his cast too. He could have his movies in his own universe but hop to the main MCU in other movies.

Deadpool got Cable's time travel device in the second movie, so yeah, maybe it could glitch out and he ends up in MCU, I mean Venom randomly ended up in it anyways...

Speaking of the MCU Spider-Man trilogy, No Way Home adapted elements of One More Day. Spider-Man fans generally hate that storyline but the movie used its elements to great effect.

It more accurately used OMIT, OMD had Mephisto doing all that nonsense because he wanted Spidey's marriage, OMIT has Spidey asking Dr. Strange's help, like he did in the movie.

And while OMIT is also not liked, all that Spidey Home 3 used was the bare element of "Strange does a mind wipe", and the most liked parts of the movie are the returning actors anyways, so the "adaptation" of OMIT isn't what made the movie liked, it's essentially the Spider-Verse part.

Either way, about a possible Jean on the MCU, as pointed out, we've had Dark Phoenix adapted twice, 90's cartoon also did it, X-Men Evolution was hinting at it, Wolverine and the X-Men kinda used it, it's been done to death, kinda like Terra betrayal of the Titans, so if we get Phoenix in MCU, I doubt it'll be the nth adaptation of it, maybe Jean gets the Phoenix and doesn't go insane from it.

Even if they adapt Phoenix without the Dark Phoenix part, I still have my doubts they'll do it that soon, X-Men have way more stories to adapt anyways, overusing that one is just lazy, maybe two decades from now we get Phoenix lol.

[Gnostic]

It more accurately used OMIT, OMD had Mephisto doing all that nonsense because he wanted Spidey's marriage, OMIT has Spidey asking Dr. Strange's help, like he did in the movie.

And while OMIT is also not liked, all that Spidey Home 3 used was the bare element of "Strange does a mind wipe", and the most liked parts of the movie are the returning actors anyways, so the "adaptation" of OMIT isn't what made the movie liked, it's essentially the Spider-Verse part.

Either way, about a possible Jean on the MCU, as pointed out, we've had Dark Phoenix adapted twice, 90's cartoon also did it, X-Men Evolution was hinting at it, Wolverine and the X-Men kinda used it, it's been done to death, kinda like Terra betrayal of the Titans, so if we get Phoenix in MCU, I doubt it'll be the nth adaptation of it, maybe Jean gets the Phoenix and doesn't go insane from it.

Even if they adapt Phoenix without the Dark Phoenix part, I still have my doubts they'll do it that soon, X-Men have way more stories to adapt anyways, overusing that one is just lazy, maybe two decades from now we get Phoenix lol.

You’re right. I got the two storylines confused.

Yeah. That is why I used Jean being the Dark Phoenix as a backstory to set-up a confrontation with the Shi’ar and Jean isn’t even the one they’re after in my scenario. We’ve never seen the cosmic part of the story in live-action and that has only ever been adapted in the 90s animated series 30 years ago.

I don’t think the saga has been overused, per say. As you pointed out, Evolution only teased at it. X3 used bare elements of the saga, reducing it into a B-story and its version of Phoenix was just another stereotypical and problematic portrayal of people with dissociative identity disorder. W&TX and the 2019 film were adaptations of the Hellfire Club part of the saga (+ Jean’s origin story). Hell, Jean didn’t even transform into Phoenix until at the end of the movie as it was meant to be a Phoenix origin story.

[Micabe]

Uncanny X-Men 245

It has one of my favorite..."You should really leave those humans alone." moments
Attachment 116431

Ha! The Jean Bomb...

[Mercury]

I think we’re going to see Jean/Phoenix in live-action in some form again. Because in Dark Phoenix, Jean gives a voiceover at the end of the movie saying: “This is not the end of me or the X-Men. Its a new beginning.”

I talked to ViewerAnon (one of the leakers of Multiverse of Madness) who saw a screening of the movie in early 2019 and he said that line wasn’t in the version he saw. Simon Kinberg in the commentary confirmed that was a last minute addition. So that line was likely added after the Disney merger was finalized. In hindsight, it is clear that line was foreshadowing as Patrick Stewart said that his conversation with Feige happened in late 2019. Just a few months after Dark Phoenix’s release. Like I said earlier, Marvel secretly introduced the M’Kraan Crystal/Panoptichron in What If. Here is an article about it:

https://screenrant.com/xmen-mcu-loca...-if-introduce/

Speaking of the MCU Spider-Man trilogy, No Way Home adapted elements of One More Day. Spider-Man fans generally hate that storyline but the movie used its elements to great effect. So here is a fun/crazy idea: What if Marvel Studios does the same thing and takes elements from a hated X-Men story but uses it in a cool way? Hear me out.

What if the Deadpool movies become “Cable & Deadpool” movies instead, like how the Ant-Man movies became Ant-Man & Wasp movies. Rachel is introduced as the older sister of Cable and their origin is explored. They are revealed to be the children of Scott and Jean, who have inherited the cosmic power of their mother (which emanates from Cable’s left eye). Hope had also inherited this power from her father.

However, it is later revealed that their mother/grandmother isn’t really Jean. The Jean we saw at the end of DOFP was a clone created by the original Jean/Phoenix at the end of the Dark Phoenix movie when she flies back to Earth. Jean did this to make Scott happy while she continued to fly through space as the Phoenix/Dark Phoenix, consuming stars throughout the cosmos relishing in power.

Jean grew more powerful with each star she consumed. Eventually, she evolved into the White Phoenix and ascends into a higher plane of existence in the White Hot Room. But before her final evolution happened, she carelessly destroyed the Shi’Ar home planet. Lilandra leads the Imperial Guard to Earth to kill Cable, Rachel, and Hope to prevent another Phoenix from raising in a live-action adaptation of “The Phoenix Must Die” and “End of Greys”.

Basically, it is the Phoenix clone retcon but in reverse. The Dark Phoenix that destroys a planet and “dies” is the real Jean. While the Phoenix-created clone is essentially Madelyne Pryor.

I should note, that this is NOT a theory or anything. Just me having fun with some ideas.

I appreciate the care and thought you put into your theories and ideas. However, I hope and expect that Jean will be presented simply, faithfully, and without much convolution. I don’t want to see her as a sidekick or sage to a bunch of derivative and reductive characters. Mind you, I am aware that the last part of that sentence reads as dismissive and mean-spirited, especially since I enjoy a lot of the characters that you’ve mentioned, but I know of no other way to say what I consider to be the truth.

After all, Jean was and is Marvel’s first telekinetic character and first character with both telekinetic and telepathic abilities. While it feels good to know that she was the blueprint and inspiration for so many, it’s also frustrating to see feats and stories that could be attributed to and centered on her go to others.

I mean, how many other optic blast wielders, weather and temperature manipulators, characters capable of magnetism, and feather-winged mutants are there? Maybe the writers should start creating more characters with those abilities. /endrant (This was totally a fangirl rant and I own it, lol.)

It’s a character appearing out of nowhere to save the day? They won’t do that.

Because it’s poor writing. You need to introduce a character to the audiences and build them
Up. Not just have white Phoenix of the crown appear and save the days by snapping her fingers.

I wasn’t suggesting that the White Phoenix appear “out of nowhere,” though, if she did appear in DS2: MoM to right reality, her origins could be explored afterward in another film. Good writing could definitely make that work.

…if we get Phoenix in MCU, I doubt it'll be the nth adaptation of it, maybe Jean gets the Phoenix and doesn't go insane from it.

Exactly. Again, if they’re going to introduce Phoenix, this is how they should do it, preferably by taking several pages from Morrison’s run.

Even if they adapt Phoenix without the Dark Phoenix part, I still have my doubts they'll do it that soon, X-Men have way more stories to adapt anyways, overusing that one is just lazy, maybe two decades from now we get Phoenix lol.

Agreed. I don’t think Phoenix will appear immediately, outside of a cameo in something like DS2: MoM and used to spotlight her power.

[BobbysWorld]

Another plot point I don't expect to see touched on, but I'd really like to.....End of Greys, the story where the Shi'ar wiped out Jean's entire family to end the potential of them producing another Phoenix host. Given the status of the protocols now, that means there's potential for Jean's niece and nephew to be brought back at the very least, since they were explicitly mutants, and possibly their mother Sarah, as she was said to be a latent mutant. Jean had two other siblings who were never described as mutants, latent or not, but there's potentially a really interesting story in Jean, who lost all of her family in one fell swoop because they MIGHT be mutants, getting at least a few of them back, but not able to get all of them back.

[Mercury]

Another plot point I don't expect to see touched on, but I'd really like to.....End of Greys, the story where the Shi'ar wiped out Jean's entire family to end the potential of them producing another Phoenix host. Given the status of the protocols now, that means there's potential for Jean's niece and nephew to be brought back at the very least, since they were explicitly mutants, and possibly their mother Sarah, as she was said to be a latent mutant. Jean had two other siblings who were never described as mutants, latent or not, but there's potentially a really interesting story in Jean, who lost all of her family in one fell swoop because they MIGHT be mutants, getting at least a few of them back, but not able to get all of them back.

Thank you for bringing this up! I’ve long yearned for the writers to focus on this aspect of Jean’s life and history. As you noted, it has the potential of being a very interesting and, in my opinion, moving Jean-centric story. In fact, I recently DMed Duggan, who has responded to my private messages before, with these musings. I made it clear that I didn’t expect a response but only wanted to share my ideas and ponderings.

[Subliminally]

After you've eaten a star that has a lil' too much spice and there's no milk around - By Zu Orzu.

Screenshot_20211223-005359.jpg

[Subliminally]

Thank you for bringing this up! I’ve long yearned for the writers to focus on this aspect of Jean’s life and history. As you noted, it has the potential of being a very interesting and, in my opinion, moving Jean-centric story. In fact, I recently DMed Duggan, who has responded to my private messages before, with these musings. I made it clear that I didn’t expect a response but only wanted to share my ideas and ponderings.

On the Sara note, he did give part of that ability to Sage. No idea if that's still a thing with her or if it's been forgotten.

[Mercury]

On the Sara note, he did give part of that ability to Sage. No idea if that's still a thing with her or if it's been forgotten.

Fascinating! Thanks for sharing!

[Subliminally]

Fascinating! Thanks for sharing!

No problem. It's from issue X-treme X-men #3

[johnnysv75]

Hickman went on to say during the pandemic he was plotting the second-act event, but everyone wanted to stay within the first act. He added, “I appreciated that House of X resonated with them to the extent that they didn’t want it to end, but the reality was that I knew I would be leaving the line early.”

Oh god. We are still in act one. Jean will probably get her new costume in act three or something like that. …