Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[Starchilde]

Y'all make this thread fucking exhausting to come into. It's so negative for no good reason all the damn time.

Anyway, happy holidays.

Happy holidays!
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[WinterCoyote]

So I love the scene in X-Men Apocalypse where Jean goes full Phoenix at the end.

[Starchilde]

So I love the scene in X-Men Apocalypse where Jean goes full Phoenix at the end.

It's a great scene. In general I found the movie pretty bad and that version of Poccy made me laugh a lot (why is he so tiny? lol). But that little moment of Jean screaming and going full Phoenix to defeat him, oh it gave me shivers.

[johnnysv75]

I think the X-Men would work best as a tv show. And using the iconic school in Westchester. Season 1 would benefit from a smaller cast. The original five as first year students at this school for gifted youngsters. Students who sometimes have to battle enemies and save the world. Maybe have Warren be African American. And have Bobby come out in season 1.

Hellfire Industries would be an amazing enemy in the first seasons. Run by Shaw. Hellfire Industries’ rivaling school, with Emma Frost as the headmistress, would be introduced early in season 1.
(Shinobi Shaw could be one of the students, flirting with Bobby whenever the schools meet.)

Magneto would be Xavier’s tormented former partner. Moira would be Xavier’s current partner, sometimes at the school and sometimes in her lab on Muir Isle. She would have this love-hate relationship with a mutant working for Interpol, Sean Cassidy.

Lorna and Alex would be introduced as new students half way through season 1. And throughout season 1 the original five would meet other heroic mutants all over the world (Piotr, Ororo, Kurt). Early in season 2 they would join the school when the original five run into an enemy they can’t defeat on their own (maybe the sentinels?).

And then the world would slowly become bigger throughout the seasons. With each season, the focus would be less and less on the school and more and more on them being X-Men. Maybe giving the show six seasons.

The focus for the show would be Jean and her unlimited potential. In the first two seasons she cuts loose a few times, and then she truly taps into her vast psi powers in season three. In season four she would be almost a goddess, and in season five she is corrupted and seemingly dies in the season finale. In season six she returns and saves the day. She still has her powers, but after her return she is truly in control of them.

I would truly binge watch this show.

[Lukmendes]

How many characters are telepaths/telekinetics? Seriously? Jean, Rachel, Cable, Stryfe, X-Man, Madelyne Pryor, Monet, Exodus, Quentin Quire, Selene, Apocalypse, Candra, Xavier with his cerebro helmet, Cassandra Nova, Moondragon, any of the eternals any powerful magic user including the Scarlet Witch, Dr. Strange, Agatha Harkness, Mr. Sinister, etc.

I was asking 'cause I'm new to X-Men shit and don't keep track of everything.

Either way, of those, Cable only has the powers in theory, he generally keeps the techno organic virus at bay and just uses guns, Selene is more of a magician from what I've seen, or just uses telepathy, Strange is a total bitch lately who struggles to remove a bunny from a top hat, and doesn't Apocalypse mostly rely on celestial tech?

Can't speak about the rest, but I doubt Wanda has telepathy/telekinesis combo with consistency.

And Jean came before and was the blueprint for half of this list.

While being the first is nice, characters have to do stuff to stand out if competition with the same power set comes around, otherwise they may look redundant.

Then again, Jean is very popular, and just being more popular than the competition alone can be good enough, despite the ridiculously high amount of Spider-People in 616, and how some have the same powers as Peter and some others on top of 'em, there's no real worry he'll look redundant, Jean feels like a similar case lol.

The final scene was changed/censored. It's not clear what she's doing to him, but it's more like she's just hurting/torturing him somehow. We only know it was meant to be that because the original panel before publication was shown somewhere.

Ah, that explains it, thanks.

I think the X-Men would work best as a tv show. And using the iconic school in Westchester. Season 1 would benefit from a smaller cast. The original five as first year students at this school for gifted youngsters. Students who sometimes have to battle enemies and save the world. Maybe have Warren be African American. And have Bobby come out in season 1.

Hellfire Industries would be an amazing enemy in the first seasons. Run by Shaw. Hellfire Industries’ rivaling school, with Emma Frost as the headmistress, would be introduced early in season 1.
(Shinobi Shaw could be one of the students, flirting with Bobby whenever the schools meet.)

Magneto would be Xavier’s tormented former partner. Moira would be Xavier’s current partner, sometimes at the school and sometimes in her lab on Muir Isle. She would have this love-hate relationship with a mutant working for Interpol, Sean Cassidy.

Lorna and Alex would be introduced as new students half way through season 1. And throughout season 1 the original five would meet other heroic mutants all over the world (Piotr, Ororo, Kurt). Early in season 2 they would join the school when the original five run into an enemy they can’t defeat on their own (maybe the sentinels?).

And then the world would slowly become bigger throughout the seasons. With each season, the focus would be less and less on the school and more and more on them being X-Men. Maybe giving the show six seasons.

The focus for the show would be Jean and her unlimited potential. In the first two seasons she cuts loose a few times, and then she truly taps into her vast psi powers in season three. In season four she would be almost a goddess, and in season five she is corrupted and seemingly dies in the season finale. In season six she returns and saves the day. She still has her powers, but after her return she is truly in control of them.

I would truly binge watch this show.

The progression of characters joining the X-Men you're suggesting seems to be based on 616, think Lorna and Alex joined before the cancellation, then others like Colossus and Storm joined in Giant Size X-Men.

Either way, I really don't see an entire season using only the O5 as the X-Men, and not having other characters joining during it, specially iconic characters like Storm and Wolverine not being around.

At best, I can see O5 being the first X-Men, but even starting the show with them being the only members of the team sounds far fetched, even if we assume Marvel would allow it lol.

[WallStreeter]

I was asking 'cause I'm new to X-Men shit and don't keep track of everything.

Either way, of those, Cable only has the powers in theory, he generally keeps the techno organic virus at bay and just uses guns, Selene is more of a magician from what I've seen, or just uses telepathy, Strange is a total bitch lately who struggles to remove a bunny from a top hat, and doesn't Apocalypse mostly rely on celestial tech?

Can't speak about the rest, but I doubt Wanda has telepathy/telekinesis combo with consistency.



While being the first is nice, characters have to do stuff to stand out if competition with the same power set comes around, otherwise they may look redundant.

Then again, Jean is very popular, and just being more popular than the competition alone can be good enough, despite the ridiculously high amount of Spider-People in 616, and how some have the same powers as Peter and some others on top of 'em, there's no real worry he'll look redundant, Jean feels like a similar case lol.



Ah, that explains it, thanks.



The progression of characters joining the X-Men you're suggesting seems to be based on 616, think Lorna and Alex joined before the cancellation, then others like Colossus and Storm joined in Giant Size X-Men.

Either way, I really don't see an entire season using only the O5 as the X-Men, and not having other characters joining during it, specially iconic characters like Storm and Wolverine not being around.

At best, I can see O5 being the first X-Men, but even starting the show with them being the only members of the team sounds far fetched, even if we assume Marvel would allow it lol.

How characters use their telepathic/telekinetic powers really varies ok the writer, but plain Jean has powers so many other people have it just makes her not worth much as a character. Look at how they have handled her. It hadn’t been that great compared to what some other characters have been doing. We will likely need to see Phoenix/Jean in the MCU before the comics decide to really care about Jean.

[WallStreeter]

Pretty sure that different mutants will get their own series they won’t do a team movie for the Disney plus. Too many stars in a tv series makes it too expensive. MCU gets expensive names in order to get big box office returns. They’re going to go full movie out on this.

I’m pretty sure the Krakoa era is to provide the building blocks for MCU mutants, or otherwise Marvel would not have invested so much money in reshaping the world the X-Men live in.

Disney/Marvel is pretty predictable once you look past what you want to see.

[Mercury]

Huh, wonder if it'd be hinting at it like Thanos himself, getting Phoenix involved with other heroes lol.

If they do adapt the Dark Phoenix Saga, I imagine they would do so much like they did Infinity War in that it would be spread out across several films, would hint at the Phoenix, and, yes, perhaps include heroes outside of mutants. Then again, they would have their hands full just focusing on the original Phoenix and Dark Phoenix Sagas.

If they go for that, hopefully it's not the "subvert expectactions" way Star Wars' sequel trilogy did it .

Oh, they've already done and gone beyond that, lol.

That would be potentially hilarious lol.

I thought it would be a cool and funny way of poking fun at the original show while underscoring how powerful she is.

Either way, the most questionable names in this are Thanos, Wanda and Thor.

Thanos, he's strong, but he only ever was in the level of cosmic beings with the Infinity Gauntlet, so unless he got huge buffs, or Phoenix got huge nerfs, I don't see it.

Thor, he got rekt by Phoenix back in AvX, and it's not even far fetched for it to happen, but I hear he's stronger in Cates' run, but I dunno how much stronger.

Wanda, no, while AvX randomly established her power as the Phoenix's opposite, she's still not strong enough to deal with the Phoenix, at best she could stand a chance if she randomly gets the reality warping powers, but generally she doesn't have 'em.

Beyonders, they're above Phoenix, but they're also dead.

Good points.

From what I remember, the characters who got most noticeable development under Hickman are Mystique, Apocalypse and Moira, while some others like Magneto, Xavier, Destiny, Nimrod got cool moments at least.

It's not just them, since I haven't read all of Hickman's issues, but yeah, I doubt a lot of characters got stuff.

Exactly. Very few characters have undergone substantial development during this era.

Then again, Jean is very popular, and just being more popular than the competition alone can be good enough, despite the ridiculously high amount of Spider-People in 616, and how some have the same powers as Peter and some others on top of 'em, there's no real worry he'll look redundant, Jean feels like a similar case lol.

I couldn't agree more. She's was both the first telekinetic and telepathic/telekinetic character and is the most popular of the bunch.

The progression of characters joining the X-Men you're suggesting seems to be based on 616, think Lorna and Alex joined before the cancellation, then others like Colossus and Storm joined in Giant Size X-Men.

Either way, I really don't see an entire season using only the O5 as the X-Men, and not having other characters joining during it, specially iconic characters like Storm and Wolverine not being around.

At best, I can see O5 being the first X-Men, but even starting the show with them being the only members of the team sounds far fetched, even if we assume Marvel would allow it lol.

I can totally see a film or first season of a series, if done faithfully and well, centered on the original five. In fact, this is what I'm hoping Marvel does to establish the foundation of the X-Men. The original five have interesting enough origins and powers to make it really work. The plot for the first season or film could center on the O5's origins, flashback to their battles with other villains, and could see them to travel to an island manifesting strange phenomena. Once on the island, they fight for their lives against the island itself: Krakoa! It would end on a cliffhanger, with Cyclops being the only one to escape the island. The second film or season would center on the recruitment of the second genesis of the X-Men, including Storm, Nightcrawler, Colossus, Sunfire, Banshee, and Thunderbird, including their origins and efforts to band together to save the O5 that remained on Krakoa.

[Gnostic]

The final scene was changed/censored. It's not clear what she's doing to him, but it's more like she's just hurting/torturing him somehow. We only know it was meant to be that because the original panel before publication was shown somewhere.

Even then, Wanda was checking him out and touching him lovingly while speaking rapey dialogue. Talking about how handsome he is, that he should want it and appreciate it, wiping her lips after she is done.

[Mercury]

How characters use their telepathic/telekinetic powers really varies ok the writer, but plain Jean has powers so many other people have it just makes her not worth much as a character. Look at how they have handled her. It hadn’t been that great compared to what some other characters have been doing. We will likely need to see Phoenix/Jean in the MCU before the comics decide to really care about Jean.

In the comics, Jean has a vast and interesting enough history to make her compelling and ripe for engrossing stories. This was proven during 2012-2018. As for the films, it is unlikely that most of the telekinetic/telepathic characters you listed will even make appearances. Even still, Feige will probably distinguish Jean as the most powerful telepath/telekinetic.

[Subliminally]

At the risk of stepping into the landmine that is the Phoenix Force and re-writes, isn't it impossible to kill the PF without killing existence in the process? Like yeah, you can kill the host body but the actual Force, no.

[Gnostic]

It's honestly baffling that, despite how over hated Wanda can be, that moment is hardly ever mentioned when people want to talk shit about the bullshit she pulled lol.

I notice something similar with X-Men: The Last Stand. That movie got hate for years, so I found it baffling that there wasn’t much controversy over its inaccurate/problemtic/stereotypical depiction of dissociative identity disorder (aka multiple personality disorder) like with Me, Myself, & Irene and Split/Glass.

I mean, the movie literally implies that having a dual personality makes you inherently homicidal and acts like it’s social commentary.

That sounds like you're talking about Wanda being a rapist being something that can only be told on TV lol.

lmao

[WallStreeter]

In the comics, Jean has a vast and interesting enough history to make her compelling and ripe for engrossing stories. This was proven during 2012-2018. As for the films, it is unlikely that most of the telekinetic/telepathic characters you listed will even make appearances. Even still, Feige will probably distinguish Jean as the most powerful telepath/telekinetic.

Teen Jean was given a psyche absorption pose that stood in for the Phoenix. It was unique and it was why it worked.

Current Jean doesn’t do psyche absorption and she is still a background character. Jeen was a starring character, one who was popular enough for them to bring back adult Jean and then do nothing with her.

[WallStreeter]

I think Phoenix Resurrection was a waste. They should have waited till Krakoa, and then bring Jean back using the 5. It would have made more sense why she wasn’t Phoenix!

[WinterCoyote]

I think Phoenix Resurrection was a waste. They should have waited till Krakoa, and then bring Jean back using the 5. It would have made more sense why she wasn’t Phoenix!

I really liked Jean telling the Phoenix that they needed to break up and forcing the Phoenix to accept it.