Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[Mercury]

Yeah, because she was dead for so long.Other characters were all still alive and had stories for a long time when she didn't.But the way O5 were written you can't tell me it wasn't written w/ Jean as the main character in mind.

Again as I said it was welcome, I liked that she was the focus again.But the other members of time travelled O5 were nowhere near her in popularity because they got a fraction of the stories that she did and so many of them has Jean playing a pivotal role or just revolving around her.

You said Teen Jean was popular because she was jean, I'm saying another factor we can't ignore is the massive push she got in her Teen Jean era.Never said it was a bad thing, it was her turn.

It makes sense that a character in high-demand, regardless of whether she was in high-demand because she was dead for a decade, would make her return in a central and pivotal role. Moreover, it’s clear that Bendis, in addition to acquiescing to the fans’ demands, was also enamored with Jean as a character and greatly enjoyed writing her.

I’m glad that we agree it was a good thing and “her turn.”

[Spiderfan001]

It makes sense that a character in high-demand, regardless of whether she was in high-demand because she was dead for a decade, would make her return in a central and pivotal role. Moreover, it’s clear that Bendis, in addition to acquiescing to the fans’ demands, was also enamored with Jean as a character and greatly enjoyed writing her.

I’m glad that we agree it was a good thing and “her turn.”

Central and pivotal is not the same as overshadowing others.

I always site this example but PAD's X-factor might be the perfect team based run.Even though Jamie Madrox is clearly the main character, every character in that run has so much of their own stuff to do.That run made me go from not knowing and/or caring for these characters to loving them, all of them.

Bendis for the life of him can't write a team based book(and after death of Spider-man maybe even write as a whole, except Teen Jean).Even his best work like New Avengers Luke overshadowed everyone else to the point they nerfed the life out of Strange and Peter was sidelined hard even when they were facing Norman Osborn.You know, he's only his arch nemesis.
The less we talk about his current Justice league the better, glad he's been put off the title.(Although I'm very concerned w/ him coming to marvel for ASM.Please no)

Again I hope you understand I loved Teen Jean and do think it was her turn.But Bendis did not manage it well, at the end of the day it's a team book and even if it's her turn to be central and pivotal his handling of other characters left a lot to be desired.It was a good thing that if anyone was going to get this treatment it was her, but it should not have been the case in the first place.

[Mercury]

Central and pivotal is not the same as overshadowing others.

Frankly, I don’t feel she overshadowed the rest of the team. I didn’t just love Bendis’ Jean—I loved his writing of the entire team. Scott was deeply conflicted yet sweet and sensitive in a way that drew me to him like never before. Bobby was goofy, adorable, and powerful, and was finally able to embrace that he’s gay after decades of innuendos. And Warren and Hank underwent major and fascinating changes. I loved them individually as much as I did as a unit. That’s really why I loved Bendis’ run as much as I did. His treatment of Jean was just the icing and cherry on top for me.

Bendis for the life of him can't write a team based book…

Again I hope you understand I loved Teen Jean and do think it was her turn.But Bendis did not manage it well, at the end of the day it's a team book and even if it's her turn to be central and pivotal his handling of other characters left a lot to be desired.It was a good thing that if anyone was going to get this treatment it was her, but it should not have been the case in the first place.

Funny, that’s how I feel about Hickman, who, aside from a few select characters, has pretty much treated everyone else like props and wallpaper. You didn’t like Bendis’ run and have your own opinions about it and I respect that. I loved it and have my own reasons why and they don’t all just include Jean. I’ll leave it at that.

On another note—and this isn’t just directed at you, Spiderfan001: I’m getting really fucking tired of coming in this thread and feeling like I have to defend Jean from everything from claims that she’s “nothing” without the Phoenix Force to complaints that she’s just an accessory to prop up Scott to now criticisms regarding one of her best eras.

IT IS FUCKING EXHAUSTING. And, honestly, unfair to those fans of hers who would like a space on this forum to celebrate and discuss her. I know because I’ve had at least five to eight fans DM me about what a drag it is to come to this thread and read through the constant criticisms and negativity. You people are driving fans away from this thread. I don’t see this happening in any other appreciation threads.

I have to think long about whether I want to post here anymore, which I’ve been tempted to stop doing on a few occasions. I mean, I don’t participate in this thread to be compelled to endlessly defend Jean or debate things concerning her ad nauseam. It truly sucks whatever enjoyment I get from sharing my love for this character on here. I’ve got better things to do with my time.

I hope you all and your loved ones have a blessed and Happy New Year. If I don’t see or speak to any of you again, it’s been real. ✌❤️

[johnnysv75]

I also loved Bendis’s run. I do hope you stick around, Mercury.

[johnnysv75]

Check out the holiday thread! Jwatson did an incredible sketch based on my post about Jean and Ororo’s christmas!

[Gnostic]

Yeah it's weird, I think part of the reason is that it's an old movie so it doesn't get as much attention, but a bigger reason is possibly that, while there's a bigger focus in mental health and "proper" representation overall, split personality just isn't something people focus on.

I don’t think it has to do with it being old. Like I said, there was controversy surrounding Me, Myself, & Irene and that came out six years before Last Stand.

[johnnysv75]

On another note—and this isn’t just directed at you, Spiderfan001: I’m getting really fucking tired of coming in this thread and feeling like I have to defend Jean from everything from claims that she’s “nothing” without the Phoenix Force to complaints that she’s just an accessory to prop up Scott to now criticisms regarding one of her best eras.

IT IS FUCKING EXHAUSTING. And, honestly, unfair to those fans of hers who would like a space on this forum to celebrate and discuss her. I know because I’ve had at least five to eight fans DM me about what a drag it is to come to this thread and read through the constant criticisms and negativity. You people are driving fans away from this thread. I don’t see this happening in any other appreciation threads.

I have to think long about whether I want to post here anymore, which I’ve been tempted to stop doing on a few occasions. I mean, I don’t participate in this thread to be compelled to endlessly defend Jean or debate things concerning her ad nauseam. It truly sucks whatever enjoyment I get from sharing my love for this character on here. I’ve got better things to do with my time.

I hope you all and your loved ones have a blessed and Happy New Year. If I don’t see or speak to any of you again, it’s been real. ✌❤️

I try not to be too negative even though I don’t always like how Jean is written. My favorite Jean period will always be way back in the classic Claremont/Byrne run. Jean WAS Phoenix. I will always dislike how the retcon removed something from Jean. And now that retconned has deteriorated into the blasphemy that is whatever the heck is that Aaron is doing in Avengers. Other retcons have been undone, but for some reason the Phoenix force is allowed to be removed further and further from Jean. I will always consider the original story where Jean becomes a being of pure psionic power in order to save her loved ones, as the one true Phoenix story.

The reason why Hickman’s era has been underwhelming for me is that X-Men Red was so damn good. Jean stated that the Phoenix had been holding her back and now she would truly explore her (unlimited) potential. I still consider it a waste that we never got to read this story.

But I really like Duggan’s Jean. And I truly love X-Men #4. More of that Jean, please. More more more.

I really like what was written about Jean in the Apocalypse Manifesto, way back in X-Factor #65. That truly complex woman is my Jean.

[Lukmendes]

That’s not “just Bendis loving Jean.” He shared what the top request from fans was, which was for Jean to come back. He did share his love for Jean, though, and it was evident in how he wrote her.

As for other characters being sidelined, Jean has been sidelined too. At that point in her history, having been dead and absent from comics for close to a decade, she earned that spotlight. And it was glorious.

I dunno about fan requests really playing a part here, 'cause while it might be true that fans made requests, Bendis does what he wants, even if fans don't like it, and Marvel/DC usually let him keep doing what he wants too lol.

I don’t think it has to do with it being old. Like I said, there was controversy surrounding Me, Myself, & Irene and that came out six years before Last Stand.

Was there? Never heard of it lol.

[Spiderfan001]

Frankly, I don’t feel she overshadowed the rest of the team. I didn’t just love Bendis’ Jean—I loved his writing of the entire team. Scott was deeply conflicted yet sweet and sensitive in a way that drew me to him like never before. Bobby was goofy, adorable, and powerful, and was finally able to embrace that he’s gay after decades of innuendos. And Warren and Hank underwent major and fascinating changes. I loved them individually as much as I did as a unit. That’s really why I loved Bendis’ run as much as I did. His treatment of Jean was just the icing and cherry on top for me.

Agree to disagree, His Jean was far and beyond his best thing on that book and nothing came close.
Scott would be 2nd, his inner turmoil stuff gave him one arc and Jean was a big part of that as well.
Bobby was comic relief and his coming out was rushed via Jean(as in bendis used her to do it, not that it's her fault.She's a teenager dealing w/ a lot) and not explored nearly well enough.
Beast again had some small stuff I can't remember, only thing I remember is him suddenly having the hots for Jean always and the demon story way down the line.
Warren again was the guy who wanted to leave and I genuinely can't remember much else other than he got fire wings and dated Laura down the line.

Funny, that’s how I feel about Hickman, who, aside from a few select characters, has pretty much treated everyone else like props and wallpaper. You didn’t like Bendis’ run and have your own opinions about it and I respect that. I loved it and have my own reasons why and they don’t all just include Jean. I’ll leave it at that.

I do like Bendis's run, it's the best modern Jean and better than X-men red by a lot for me.And the art is just *chef's kiss*
Hickman's run was never about those characters, his Xavier. Mags, Moira, Destiny, Mystique, Emma have been amazing IMO and his plot is miles if not light years away from anything Bendis ever wrote much less in the last decade.

On another note—and this isn’t just directed at you, Spiderfan001: I’m getting really fucking tired of coming in this thread and feeling like I have to defend Jean from everything from claims that she’s “nothing” without the Phoenix Force to complaints that she’s just an accessory to prop up Scott to now criticisms regarding one of her best eras.

IT IS FUCKING EXHAUSTING. And, honestly, unfair to those fans of hers who would like a space on this forum to celebrate and discuss her. I know because I’ve had at least five to eight fans DM me about what a drag it is to come to this thread and read through the constant criticisms and negativity. You people are driving fans away from this thread. I don’t see this happening in any other appreciation threads.

I have to think long about whether I want to post here anymore, which I’ve been tempted to stop doing on a few occasions. I mean, I don’t participate in this thread to be compelled to endlessly defend Jean or debate things concerning her ad nauseam. It truly sucks whatever enjoyment I get from sharing my love for this character on here. I’ve got better things to do with my time.

I hope you all and your loved ones have a blessed and Happy New Year. If I don’t see or speak to any of you again, it’s been real. ✌❤️

I have to say I think you misunderstood a lot of what I meant because I'm saying Jean was actually amazing w/out the phoenix and far and beyond the best thing.I'm saying other characters didn't come close and Bendis doesn't know how to balance characters.

I understand, felt many times myself.

For what it's worth I hope you stick around, but do what's best for yourself and take care

[mike7171]

IT IS FUCKING EXHAUSTING. And, honestly, unfair to those fans of hers who would like a space on this forum to celebrate and discuss her. I know because I’ve had at least five to eight fans DM me about what a drag it is to come to this thread and read through the constant criticisms and negativity. You people are driving fans away from this thread. I don’t see this happening in any other appreciation threads.

Haha! Well, not every discussion will be unicorns and rainbows. But I agree, people tend to argue quite a bit on here (i have not been on any boards, as I am solely a Jean fan). For my sanity, i just skim through the end of the bickering and colorful exchanges. Not sure if the 'Jean' demographics cater to these kinds of personality, but oh well.

I just pick and choose posts on here that I find interesting and ignore the trash and move on.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to y'all Jean lovers!

[MechaJeanix]

Listen we aren't always going to agree. This forum does allow us to share our love of X-men but it is also for discussion and debate. I agree that the negativity gets to me too sometimes, but I also understand some of it. I choose to enjoy the X-men and I don't want to get into the habit of hate reading the books.. always waiting for them to get better but they seemingly never do. Been there, done that in other eras.

There is a lot to appreciate in the Hickman Era but I understand wanting more. It was tough seeing Jean back in the orbit of Cyclops and Wolverine. It was also tough seeing her in the Marvel Girl look, but at the same time the character has been used well by both Percy and Duggan. She's confident and powerful in most situations. At best the character may be a little uneven between the various writers, but I can't complain with how Duggan uses her.

Even if you do not enjoy the current era there are many past era's to appreciate. I also love the Bendis Teen Jean era. I also loved Dennis Hopeless and his Teen Jean and Ghost Jean. Morrison's Jean will always be the standard for me. So when there are things I do not like I can always read some back issues.

As far as the Phoenix debate, some of us will always love Jean as Phoenix. I love her with or without it, but others may have different opinions. I hate the idea that we aren't a real fan unless we copy the opinions of others on here. Let us stop with that b.s. like full stop and right now.

I'm hopeful that Duggan will continue to do well with Jean. We have some Jean content coming up by Percy. I think as die hard fans we will always want more and thus we'll almost always be disappointed. It is best to enjoy the ride - but again discussion and debate is what we are here for. There will always be someone that doesn't enjoy or appreciate what you like. I mean it still boggles my mind that some folks couldn't enjoy Morrison's run. We just have to agree to disagree.

[MechaJeanix]

Frankly, I don’t feel she overshadowed the rest of the team. I didn’t just love Bendis’ Jean—I loved his writing of the entire team. Scott was deeply conflicted yet sweet and sensitive in a way that drew me to him like never before. Bobby was goofy, adorable, and powerful, and was finally able to embrace that he’s gay after decades of innuendos. And Warren and Hank underwent major and fascinating changes. I loved them individually as much as I did as a unit. That’s really why I loved Bendis’ run as much as I did. His treatment of Jean was just the icing and cherry on top for me.



Funny, that’s how I feel about Hickman, who, aside from a few select characters, has pretty much treated everyone else like props and wallpaper. You didn’t like Bendis’ run and have your own opinions about it and I respect that. I loved it and have my own reasons why and they don’t all just include Jean. I’ll leave it at that.

On another note—and this isn’t just directed at you, Spiderfan001: I’m getting really fucking tired of coming in this thread and feeling like I have to defend Jean from everything from claims that she’s “nothing” without the Phoenix Force to complaints that she’s just an accessory to prop up Scott to now criticisms regarding one of her best eras.

IT IS FUCKING EXHAUSTING. And, honestly, unfair to those fans of hers who would like a space on this forum to celebrate and discuss her. I know because I’ve had at least five to eight fans DM me about what a drag it is to come to this thread and read through the constant criticisms and negativity. You people are driving fans away from this thread. I don’t see this happening in any other appreciation threads.

I have to think long about whether I want to post here anymore, which I’ve been tempted to stop doing on a few occasions. I mean, I don’t participate in this thread to be compelled to endlessly defend Jean or debate things concerning her ad nauseam. It truly sucks whatever enjoyment I get from sharing my love for this character on here. I’ve got better things to do with my time.

I hope you all and your loved ones have a blessed and Happy New Year. If I don’t see or speak to any of you again, it’s been real. ✌❤️

Mercury, I do appreciate your posts. We don't always agree, but I think we agree more than we disagree. I do love your enthusiasm and your twitter threads are great. Personally I frequently take mental health breaks from fandom and the various fan communities I frequent. It is good to take a break when things get too much or become toxic. Remember to take care of yourself!

[johnnysv75]

Even if you do not enjoy the current era there are many past era's to appreciate. I also love the Bendis Teen Jean era. I also loved Dennis Hopeless and his Teen Jean and Ghost Jean. Morrison's Jean will always be the standard for me. So when there are things I do not like I can always read some back issues.

I have several favorite Jean eras I often return to.
1. The classic Claremont/Byrne run.
2. X-Men Red. (I have re-read it so many times.)
3. Bendis’s All-New X-Men. (I may have re-read this even more than X-Men Red.)
4. Morrison’s X-Men.
5. Seagle/Kelly.
6. X-Factor. Jean was often a force to be reckoned with here.

In the current era I truly enjoyed Percy’s earlier issues and I really enjoy Jean in Duggan’s X-Men.

[Gnostic]

Was there? Never heard of it lol.

Yup.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Me,_My...ne#Controversy

[Phoenixx9]

Frankly,...

IT IS FUCKING EXHAUSTING. And, honestly, unfair to those fans of hers who would like a space on this forum to celebrate and discuss her. I know because I’ve had at least five to eight fans DM me about what a drag it is to come to this thread and read through the constant criticisms and negativity. You people are driving fans away from this thread. I don’t see this happening in any other appreciation threads.

I have to think long about whether I want to post here anymore, which I’ve been tempted to stop doing on a few occasions. I mean, I don’t participate in this thread to be compelled to endlessly defend Jean or debate things concerning her ad nauseam. It truly sucks whatever enjoyment I get from sharing my love for this character on here. I’ve got better things to do with my time.

I hope you all and your loved ones have a blessed and Happy New Year. If I don’t see or speak to any of you again, it’s been real. ✌❤️

Yes, yes it is. Small wonder that many posters in the past have felt the way you do and either no longer post on here or have very few postings.....

The really sad thing is those that spoil the postings never seem to leave....or maybe more just take their place?

Mercury, thank you, I appreciated all of your enthusiasm, Jean Pride and all of those great pics of Jean in action! I understand. Have a Joyful Jean and Peaceful Phoenix-y New Year!