Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[WallStreeter]

Let’s be clear. There is nothing anyone can say to make make like Hickman era Jean or that tacky ugly dress. When I see they ditched that horrible costume, I will like Jean better. I will be happy if they ever make her Phoenix again, as Phoenix/Jean and Jeen are among my favorite characters.

Not all of us are going to like every portrayal of Jean. You don’t have to like the posts of those us who disagree with you but you can’t change our minds so why bother?

[andreikes]

I’m one of those Storm fans who loves her as a goddess. Storm, the Scarlet Witch, Emma Frost, Captain Britain, Psylocke, Mystique, Destiny, abd Saturnyne all have much more interesting and relevant roles in the X-Universe than Jean who is a supporting character at best and certainly not a leading character.

Current Status: Cyke and Wolvie's Girlfriend

[Exodus]

I’m one of those Storm fans who loves her as a goddess. Storm, the Scarlet Witch, Emma Frost, Captain Britain, Psylocke, Mystique, Destiny, abd Saturnyne all have much more interesting and relevant roles in the X-Universe than Jean who is a supporting character at best and certainly not a leading character.

I disagree. It depends on the writer. I think she has a leading role in the current series X-Men written by Duggan. It was her decision to restart the team. She facilitated the vote. And is leading the X-men right now.

Yes, when it comes to Hickman, she is barely mentioned. But his reign is over. I cannot thank him enough for bringing Mystique and Destiny back into such a central role.

[Exodus]

Not all of us are going to like every portrayal of Jean. You don’t have to like the posts of those us who disagree with you but you can’t change our minds so why bother?

ok, I got you. No worries. I won't reply to any of your posts again. Cheers!

[MechaJeanix]

_____________________

This was set shortly after her return from stasis and emergence from the cocoon the Phoenix Force fashioned for her. I wonder how long she remained legally "dead."

I’ve long loved this backstory. Thanks for sharing it for those who haven’t read it. I wonder why it was left off Marvel Unlimited. Ah, well.

[Starchilde]

X-Men Red showed Jean as a militant pacifist. They really should have had her beat up Nova. Btw, it’s not just make writers, not notice female writers don’t like Jean either. Women
Don’t like the nice girl next door. The outrageous White Queen or the outrageous Saturnyne aka White Witch are more fun for them to write. Ditto, Storm, the warrior queen.

Really, Bendis should have been allowed to develop Jeen more and adult Jean should have come back as Phoenix. Let’s be serious, her important to the overall franchise is minimal with all these telepath/telekinetics that could fill in for her.

Ironically, her clone Madelyne as the Goblin Queen has her own thing going on that makes her more interesting than Jean.

Claremont and Cockrum considered Marvel Girl boring so they made her Phoenix to make her exciting. That has been stripped away leaving us a boring Marvel Girl in a cheap dime store dress with dishwasher gloves.

Maybe you should stop generalizing what women like or not like? like, we are not a monolith lol there are female writers who like to write characters like Jean and others that simply don't and both are okay, those are their personal preferences *sheesh*

[Starchilde]

It's a bit confusing to me that saying "this character absolutely sucks" is supposedly going to help the character to get better stories ? one thing is to criticize the writing, and other is saying the character sucks, the second seems to me like a literal calling to take her out of comics lol

[Spiderfan001]

Maybe you should stop generalizing what women like or not like? like, we are not a monolith lol there are female writers who like to write characters like Jean and others that simply don't and both are okay, those are their personal preferences *sheesh*

This, generalizing in general() is a terrible thing

It's a bit confusing to me that saying "this character absolutely sucks" is supposedly going to help the character to get better stories ? one thing is to criticize the writing, and other is saying the character sucks, the second seems to me like a literal calling to take her out of comics lol

Co-signed, makes no sense

[Subliminally]

I really couldn't care less about over-powered godlike characters. I think it is great that there is some humanity left in Jean. No idea why so many Storm fans, for example, want her to be a goddess. Jean and Storm are goddesses but goddesses who have decided in the past to stay connected to humanity. It is a conscious decision to stay human for both of them...and less overpowered characters also makes for better storytelling!

I personally don't want Jean to be a prime Phoenix host for power level reasons, but because her look as Phoenix—with the Phoenix aura as her power signature—is so absolutely iconic. Claremont's decision to give her back the Phoenix raptor as a power signature in Evolution was perfect in my eyes. I think Jean should start manifesting a pink Phoenix raptor in the future.

Easy answer(s) to a easy question.

We are beyond thrilled that her birthright and heritage are finally being explored. Storm has always been a Goddess, it's just her divinity was locked behind the forced idea that she was just a mutant thanks to Xavier. Her Godhead status not only opens up doors for her to appear in stories that are outside of the X-Men circle (like her recent team up with Thor), but also would allow her to do things that aren't necessarily what the average and non PHD type of reader would see as - WEATHER.

On the petty level, it's simply nice to see all those who mocked Storm as a false Goddess (and Omega) turn red every time she does something they don't like.

On that note, this is the Jean thread! So if you Exodus, or anyone else would like to continue this chit-chat by all means feel free to pop into Storm's thread. We really are harmless as long as you come with the proper respect

[WallStreeter]

Maybe you should stop generalizing what women like or not like? like, we are not a monolith lol there are female writers who like to write characters like Jean and others that simply don't and both are okay, those are their personal preferences *sheesh*

None of the female writers working at Marvel say Jean is their favorite. That is what it is. People like Kelly Thompson, Tini Howard, Leah Williams, Vita Ayla are not her biggest fans.

[WallStreeter]

So I’m not going to change my mind and we could post through the next year and it will change nothing. Just as you’re entitled to your own opinions, I’m entitled to mine. I’m of the mind of Quesada and Morrison that Jean should stay dead unless they bring her back as Phoenix and unless they have good stories for her. Jeen was amazing. Every since then Adult Jean as just sucked and contributed nothing significant to Krakoa. Frankly, the Hickman era has been awful. Hopefully that changes next year
But I’m not holding my breathe.

[Mercury]

Let’s be clear. There is nothing anyone can say to make make like Hickman era Jean or that tacky ugly dress. When I see they ditched that horrible costume, I will like Jean better. I will be happy if they ever make her Phoenix again, as Phoenix/Jean and Jeen are among my favorite characters. Not all of us are going to like every portrayal of Jean. You don’t have to like the posts of those us who disagree with you but you can’t change our minds so why bother?

Firstly, no one is trying to make you like any iteration of Jean. Secondly, you've repeatedly stated that "Jean is nothing without the Phoenix." You know, you could actually contribute to this appreciation thread by sharing what you appreciate about the character instead of repeatedly deriding and demeaning her.

Storm is queen of an entire planet and regent of Sol. She recently made an entire planet habitable by herself, in a story written by a female writer.

Good point, and I say: Finally! My point still stands: None of the female writers during Hickman's era contributed much of anything to Storm's development.

As long as I abide by forum rules I am entitled to post whatever I please. Outside of Jeen, whom I loved, most depictions of plain Jean or Marvel Girl are based on Stan Lee’s 60s depiction of her as a passive character.

Oh, you can certainly post whatever you please. And I can call you on your shit, i.e., confronting you for repeatedly knocking a character in her own appreciation thread every single time you do it. As for Lee's Jean being "a passive character," chile please.







Lee wrote her as an assertive and powerful young woman. It seems you don't know who Jean Grey is at all.

Hickman era Jean sucks. And right after she gets bests nightmare, she gets taken out by simple Reavers. Duggar could have had Jean be elsewhere instead of having her knocked out. Not to mention she has been killed by Wolverine.

Oh, boohoo-fucking-hoo. Was she the only one that got taken out by either the Reavers or Wolverine? Listen, toots, if you're going to be a real Jean Grey fan, you'd better get used to getting down and dirty and in the trenches with her. She'll win some and she'll lose some--as all characters do. Maybe if you weren't so preoccupied with constantly throwing her into dick-measuring contests, you'd see the value in her as a character.

In comics sweet and nice means passive and weak.

That's your opinion and a pretty jaded and cynical one at that. It's also a somewhat sad and pitiful outlook.

Jean became a sucky character because instead of keeping her Phoenix and letting her grow, they literally took her back to the 70s and then made kid Cable again. Notice how the Scarlet Witch, who has her full powers, was the one to make 20 million souls available for Cerebro. Jean has made no major contributions to Krakoa. If they had as Phoenix do something for the future of Krakoa or to let’s say save the Shi’ar from the Phanalax thst could go a great way of redeeming her as Phoenix but it won’t happen.

Jean has been through more changes and evolutions than most comic book characters. And guess what? She's still Xavier's first student, the first female X-Man, and a founding member of the X-Men. Ain't nobody taking that away from her ever. She's also still considered central and iconic. As with all comic book characters, the possibilities for her are endless, and neither you nor I know what the writers have in store for her. Duggan has singled her out in his new series and doesn't show any signs that he will stop spotlighting her.

As for negative sentiments, I have seen Scarlet Witch and Storm fans get their wishes as Marvel does take fan feedback seriously. Even for Jean, if not for fan complain she’d still be breastfeeding kid Cable and only acting as Cyclops’s cellphone. If someone can’t stand complaints about comics, perhaps online comic forms are not for you as comic fans are never shy about what like or dislikes. Overall I love the Hickman era. I just hate how Jean has been written.

That's what people like you think. I was recently having a private conversation with a very well known journalist--at least in the comic book world--and he had this to say:

I understand Jean fans' frustration, but what I don't understand is the rage. I think there are better, more constructive ways of sharing disappointment with Marvel and creators. But I always think just screaming or sending angry tweets is never going to be met with open ears. Sadly, I don't think a lot of fans realize that - they just can't get past their rage.

Also, you recently sent me a private message praising me on my work promoting Jean and, guess what, I don't what you are suggesting. I don't trash her nor her current development and I certainly don't harangue writers.

This is a person who speaks with comic book editors, writers, and artists on a weekly basis, so they certainly have some insight into this. My point is: You don't help a character by trashing said character or those charged with handling said character. You help a character by sharing your enthusiasm for them; by highlighting what it is that made you fall in love with them and makes you consider them worthy of attention.

...they decided to do a true return of Madelyne Pryor.

Chile, please. What they've done and seem dead set on continuing with Madelyne is so sad and insulting, it's beyond the pale.

Continued...

[Exodus]

Easy answer(s) to a easy question.

We are beyond thrilled that her birthright and heritage are finally being explored. Storm has always been a Goddess, it's just her divinity was locked behind the forced idea that she was just a mutant thanks to Xavier. Her Godhead status not only opens up doors for her to appear in stories that are outside of the X-Men circle (like her recent team up with Thor), but also would allow her to do things that aren't necessarily what the average and non PHD type of reader would see as - WEATHER.

On the petty level, it's simply nice to see all those who mocked Storm as a false Goddess (and Omega) turn red every time she does something they don't like.

On that note, this is the Jean thread! So if you Exodus, or anyone else would like to continue this chit-chat by all means feel free to pop into Storm's thread. We really are harmless as long as you come with the proper respect

ok, I get that. I just remember so many moments in Storm's history where Storm explicitly has refused to transcend into godhood. I think this is very similar to Jean, who also refused many times to become a god-like being. I personally just prefer Storm being a mutant...But I'm reading X-Men comics mainly because of the minority mutant subtext and less about the too otherworldly fantasy components. So, I couldn't care less about the rest of the Marvel Universe...I stay on Krakoa.

[Mercury]

I’m one of those Storm fans who loves her as a goddess. Storm, the Scarlet Witch, Emma Frost, Captain Britain, Psylocke, Mystique, Destiny, abd Saturnyne all have much more interesting and relevant roles in the X-Universe than Jean who is a supporting character at best and certainly not a leading character.

And she still came before all of them and, along with Storm, is more iconic and well-known than they are. Moreover, Jean established one of the three basic laws of Krakoa--"Murder no man"--led the charge during X of Swords, and founded the new X-Men team. Finally, earlier this year, she coordinated an attack against Knull, a cosmic being, leading a team that consisted of Dr. Strange, Cyclops, Invisible Woman, Human Torch, Thor, Namor, Spider-Man, and Storm, after which she ransacked Knull's mind.



We'll just have to wait and see what role she plays in the new era, though her placement in the group shot below, which was said by White and others to be indicative of character prominence, is certainly promising.

Maybe you should stop generalizing what women like or not like? like, we are not a monolith lol there are female writers who like to write characters like Jean and others that simply don't and both are okay, those are their personal preferences *sheesh*

Ironically enough, the writer of The Refrigerator Monologues, Catherynne Valente, recently indicated she wouldn't be against writing a Jean solo series or book.

https://twitter.com/catvalente/statu...12119425421318

It's a bit confusing to me that saying "this character absolutely sucks" is supposedly going to help the character to get better stories ? one thing is to criticize the writing, and other is saying the character sucks, the second seems to me like a literal calling to take her out of comics lol

Bingo. Apparently, WallStreeter is "of the mind" that "Jean should stay dead unless they bring her back as Phoenix." And yet, he loved teenage Jean. Contradictory much?

In either case, I have my Phoenix panties on and am ready and willing to go toe to toe with him every time he brings his negative bullshit into this thread.

We really are harmless as long as you come with the proper respect

It seems like I'm going to have to start buckling down up in this bitch like you all, lol.

[mike7171]

While some runs (and writers) are better than others, it happens, this is comics. Characterization complaints? Hmmm, Jean' story is still unravelling. So characterization is still in progress, no? Her characterization is not over till it's over. So I just play spectator and see her progression. Like everyone else on here, we all crave for more. I've waited 13 years for the "real jean" to come back so I am being patient and appreciate what comes my way. I see good and bad writing, but it is what it is. So complaining about characterization NOW is dumb and counter-intuitive.

I come here to this board to get some info and maybe some scoop and probably do some exchanges about our girl, but I see kids complaining left and right. And it takes up pages. About the character, about the dress. OMG the whining about the dress. I do not care if she wears a tiara and a banana leaf, if she's our Jean, i still look forward to reading about her.

This is Jean Grey appreciation thread, if I want to read about characters, other than Jean, being put in a pedestal and glorified, I'll go to that character's thread.

I am just glad threads are reset every year!