Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[Celestialbodies]

Easy answer(s) to a easy question.

We are beyond thrilled that her birthright and heritage are finally being explored. Storm has always been a Goddess, it's just her divinity was locked behind the forced idea that she was just a mutant thanks to Xavier. Her Godhead status not only opens up doors for her to appear in stories that are outside of the X-Men circle (like her recent team up with Thor), but also would allow her to do things that aren't necessarily what the average and non PHD type of reader would see as - WEATHER.

On the petty level, it's simply nice to see all those who mocked Storm as a false Goddess (and Omega) turn red every time she does something they don't like.

On that note, this is the Jean thread! So if you Exodus, or anyone else would like to continue this chit-chat by all means feel free to pop into Storm's thread. We really are harmless as long as you come with the proper respect

Very nicely said, I spend time in the Storm thread hopefully I'm not speaking for anyone. But I feels like her fans have fought for a celebration for all parts of the character not just the parts that make certain writers comfortable. For decades Storm has been forced into all sorts of boxes and her fans repeatedly told what she is not. Meanwhile the company goes out of its way to explain, revamp, and focus on minute aspects of some characters while including it in their overall narrative.


Personally it's nice to see years of hard work paying off but also to prove the detractors wrong. There was never a real reason Storm couldn't be a mutant and a Goddess, she's already been a variety of different complex ideas and expressions. It is the job of the writer to explore these ideals. And thats imo the sole problem with Jean at the moment no one wants to explore who she is now. Their mostly interested in a few feats, adding forgettable characterizations and leaving her in a box. There has been no in story reason for her current costume, outside of a few superficial lines by Duggan in X-men. And I believe as fans it is our job to expect more, I am not nor will I settle for peanuts for Jean simply because she passively appears in a few comics.

I’m a very visual person. Art is just as important to me as the character when it comes to comics. Enough Jean fans (myself included) complain about the dress for various reasons, so it will continue to be a problem until it gets changed. Im sorry it is annoying but it is an injustice to see other characters get new looks while Jean stays stagnant. There isn’t enough story to justify her relegated to Marvel “girl” status. I’ll shut up when Jean gets the recognition and respect she deserves.

same! I hate this outfit with a passion...and still Jean in this ugly ass costume is the only comic toy figure allowed my apartment. lol ;-) She is smiling back to me from my window still (the Marvel Legends House of X version). Campy joy!

Agreed with all of this There is literally no other example of an A-list character being stuck in something so dated, and anachronistic. No writer has even bother to examine what this costume means to her, and that's the least they could do in 2 years. We haven't had much feedback on that end outside of a vague statement from Hickman, which amounts to nothing now. And the comments Emma made to Jean, I said it before I want to know Jean's inner machinations.


Also speaking openly this is the Jean appreciation thread but every few years it seems a few members attempt to dictate what's said here. Everyone does not have to like Jean's direction, everyone doesn't have to celebrate every passive action she takes, nor do they have to appreciation her overall direction. 2 years is more than enough time for us as fans to examine her current role and determine if she's grown at all. For me personally I could care less about her feats or costume. The issue is those are the only things to discuss about her and have been for quite some time. She is repeatedly given passive actions, starting a team, and leaving the council "might" sound good on paper. However without an investment on developing what these changes truly mean for the character, it all comes off as hollow especially when these major decisions are made on a dime and in concert with someone else.

[Mercury]

Mark Eastwood has been posting his renditions of Jean’s costumes on Instagram. I’ve compiled all of his pieces in the thread below.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Jean_RED_...60774957647462

Here are some of his most recent ones:

[Mercury]

[johnnysv75]

I said it before I want to know Jean's inner machinations.

To be fair, we hardly know the inner machinations of any of the characters in this run. I have no idea what Betsy is thinking or feeling over in Excalibur, and she is the main character.

For me personally I could care less about her feats or costume.

To me feats are important since they remind us of Jean’s power level. One of the things that I like about Jean is that she knows that she has these terrible energies inside of her (to quote Apocalypse), and it scares her a bit (what would happen if she cuts loose completely, how much damage could she cause?), and at the same time she is really drawn to these powers of hers (what would happen if she cuts loose completely - how wonderful would it feel, would she be able to stop?).
If all we saw her do was read people’s minds and float, the above aspect would lose its impact. So I need feats every now and then.

In the future (hopefully 2022), I would love to see them fully explore what makes an omega level telepath special. Telepathy can be used in lots of amazing and scary ways and I would love to see them be creative with Jean.
I would also love to see Jean do some cool stuff with her TK again. Teen Jean did things with her TK that Beast said was Phoenix level stuff. So adult Jean should be able to do that as well. She may not be an omega telekinetic, but she is still VERY powerful.

And yes, I would love to feel closer to Jean again. To know what she thinks and feels. How is her relationship with Scott? I would love to see that explored more. I know that many people don’t like her with Scott, but the fact is that they are together, yet we haven’t really seen any intimate dialogue between them. Overall, I would love more of Jean’s personal stuff, outside of her ”job” as an X-Man.

[Subliminally]

Very nicely said, I spend time in the Storm thread hopefully I'm not speaking for anyone. But I feels like her fans have fought for a celebration for all parts of the character not just the parts that make certain writers comfortable. For decades Storm has been forced into all sorts of boxes and her fans repeatedly told what she is not. Meanwhile the company goes out of its way to explain, revamp, and focus on minute aspects of some characters while including it in their overall narrative.


Personally it's nice to see years of hard work paying off but also to prove the detractors wrong. There was never a real reason Storm couldn't be a mutant and a Goddess, she's already been a variety of different complex ideas and expressions. It is the job of the writer to explore these ideals. And thats imo the sole problem with Jean at the moment no one wants to explore who she is now. Their mostly interested in a few feats, adding forgettable characterizations and leaving her in a box. There has been no in story reason for her current costume, outside of a few superficial lines by Duggan in X-men. And I believe as fans it is our job to expect more, I am not nor will I settle for peanuts for Jean simply because she passively appears in a few comics.

Thank you! I don't think we are asking for too much when it comes to character exploration. God knows some characters history has been so overdone that they have to retcon sh!t just to make a story out of it. Like do we really need a 10th solo telling us the backstory of this or that character?

Give it to Emma and Jumbo. They can make that work for Jean I just know it.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Very nicely said, I spend time in the Storm thread hopefully I'm not speaking for anyone. But I feels like her fans have fought for a celebration for all parts of the character not just the parts that make certain writers comfortable. For decades Storm has been forced into all sorts of boxes and her fans repeatedly told what she is not. Meanwhile the company goes out of its way to explain, revamp, and focus on minute aspects of some characters while including it in their overall narrative.


Personally it's nice to see years of hard work paying off but also to prove the detractors wrong. There was never a real reason Storm couldn't be a mutant and a Goddess, she's already been a variety of different complex ideas and expressions. It is the job of the writer to explore these ideals. And thats imo the sole problem with Jean at the moment no one wants to explore who she is now. Their mostly interested in a few feats, adding forgettable characterizations and leaving her in a box. There has been no in story reason for her current costume, outside of a few superficial lines by Duggan in X-men. And I believe as fans it is our job to expect more, I am not nor will I settle for peanuts for Jean simply because she passively appears in a few comics.







Agreed with all of this There is literally no other example of an A-list character being stuck in something so dated, and anachronistic. No writer has even bother to examine what this costume means to her, and that's the least they could do in 2 years. We haven't had much feedback on that end outside of a vague statement from Hickman, which amounts to nothing now. And the comments Emma made to Jean, I said it before I want to know Jean's inner machinations.


Also speaking openly this is the Jean appreciation thread but every few years it seems a few members attempt to dictate what's said here. Everyone does not have to like Jean's direction, everyone doesn't have to celebrate every passive action she takes, nor do they have to appreciation her overall direction. 2 years is more than enough time for us as fans to examine her current role and determine if she's grown at all. For me personally I could care less about her feats or costume. The issue is those are the only things to discuss about her and have been for quite some time. She is repeatedly given passive actions, starting a team, and leaving the council "might" sound good on paper. However without an investment on developing what these changes truly mean for the character, it all comes off as hollow especially when these major decisions are made on a dime and in concert with someone else.

Well said!

[MechaJeanix]

Thanks for sharing these. These look so good. It is hard to pick a favorite. I do love the Here Comes Tomorrow one.

[MechaJeanix]

To be fair, we hardly know the inner machinations of any of the characters in this run. I have no idea what Betsy is thinking or feeling over in Excalibur, and she is the main character.



To me feats are important since they remind us of Jean’s power level. One of the things that I like about Jean is that she knows that she has these terrible energies inside of her (to quote Apocalypse), and it scares her a bit (what would happen if she cuts loose completely, how much damage could she cause?), and at the same time she is really drawn to these powers of hers (what would happen if she cuts loose completely - how wonderful would it feel, would she be able to stop?).
If all we saw her do was read people’s minds and float, the above aspect would lose its impact. So I need feats every now and then.

In the future (hopefully 2022), I would love to see them fully explore what makes an omega level telepath special. Telepathy can be used in lots of amazing and scary ways and I would love to see them be creative with Jean.
I would also love to see Jean do some cool stuff with her TK again. Teen Jean did things with her TK that Beast said was Phoenix level stuff. So adult Jean should be able to do that as well. She may not be an omega telekinetic, but she is still VERY powerful.

And yes, I would love to feel closer to Jean again. To know what she thinks and feels. How is her relationship with Scott? I would love to see that explored more. I know that many people don’t like her with Scott, but the fact is that they are together, yet we haven’t really seen any intimate dialogue between them. Overall, I would love more of Jean’s personal stuff, outside of her ”job” as an X-Man.

I would also like to see a big example of what it means to be an omega level telepath. We've seen other characters like Magneto, Vulcan, and Storm (among others like Legion, Proteus, and Braddock) do big things -reinforcing their omega level status and I'd love to see the same for Jean and Quire. I loved how Duggan used Jean in Planet Size X-men (one of my favorite issues of this era) and of course Jean was used well in Giant Size Jean Grey and Emma Frost (by Hickman but RD also gets a lot of credit). Jean's biggest telepathic moment was in the King in Black mini and I'd like to see more examples on this level.

Duggan probably had Jean say it best - that she's a powerful psionic but her greatest weapons are love and kindness. Though I too like to see her cut loose every now and then.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

I would also like to see a big example of what it means to be an omega level telepath. We've seen other characters like Magneto, Vulcan, and Storm (among others like Legion, Proteus, and Braddock) do big things -reinforcing their omega level status and I'd love to see the same for Jean and Quire. I loved how Duggan used Jean in Planet Size X-men (one of my favorite issues of this era) and of course Jean was used well in Giant Size Jean Grey and Emma Frost (by Hickman but RD also gets a lot of credit). Jean's biggest telepathic moment was in the King in Black mini and I'd like to see more examples on this level.

Duggan probably had Jean say it best - that she's a powerful psionic but her greatest weapons are compassion and kindness. Though I too like to see her cut loose every now and then.

I think her "talking from long distances" bit in HoX was supposed to be the thing that shows how Omega she is lol

[Subliminally]

I think her "talking from long distances" bit in HoX was supposed to be the thing that shows how Omega she is lol

I mean at the time it was impressive. None of the other X-telepaths had that sort of reach in modern times that I know of. The thing is when you look past the X-Book you have characters like Moondragon doing the same thing if not better (longer?). To solidify Jean's omega telepathy I think they'd have to really think outside the box and do something that has never been done before. That's not a small order considering how many telepaths run around both inside and out of the X-verse.

Edit: Also, is it me or are they scaling back the non Omega telepaths? Like Emma went from doing global communications and mindwipes to needing Jeans help to shut Sabertooth up and needing to show boob to shut down a group of thugs.

Again, what she did against Knull was impressive but overall a really wasted opportunity. They really could of had her go HAM on him and pull out all the stops. If ANYONE was worth it, it was Knull.

[Mercury]

Agreed with all of this There is literally no other example of an A-list character being stuck in something so dated, and anachronistic. No writer has even bother to examine what this costume means to her, and that's the least they could do in 2 years. We haven't had much feedback on that end outside of a vague statement from Hickman, which amounts to nothing now. And the comments Emma made to Jean, I said it before I want to know Jean's inner machinations.


Also speaking openly this is the Jean appreciation thread but every few years it seems a few members attempt to dictate what's said here. Everyone does not have to like Jean's direction, everyone doesn't have to celebrate every passive action she takes, nor do they have to appreciation her overall direction. 2 years is more than enough time for us as fans to examine her current role and determine if she's grown at all. For me personally I could care less about her feats or costume. The issue is those are the only things to discuss about her and have been for quite some time. She is repeatedly given passive actions, starting a team, and leaving the council "might" sound good on paper. However without an investment on developing what these changes truly mean for the character, it all comes off as hollow especially when these major decisions are made on a dime and in concert with someone else.

You've brought up some good points. However, to be clear, no one is trying to dictate what's being said here. Personally, I'm just asking that Jean not be insulted in her own appreciation thread. Calling her "nothing without the Phoenix" is patently untrue and not conducive to a fruitful discussion.

I could be petty and just start reporting posters that continue to deride and demean her in here. Based on what I've witnessed in Storm's thread, these posts would most certainly get deleted. However, I'm trying to appeal to posters. Besides, I do enjoy a good debate.

I think her "talking from long distances" bit in HoX was supposed to be the thing that shows how Omega she is lol

No, psi-linking all of the mutants on Earth and the SWORD station orbiting Mars (without the help of the Cuckoos), evading detection by a cosmic being--a god, in fact--to coordinate an attack on him before ransacking his mind, and yanking a Class Three Demon--a Fear Lord--from his own realm to swiftly dispel him "shows how Omega she is," dear.

[Spiderfan001]

I’m a very visual person. Art is just as important to me as the character when it comes to comics. Enough Jean fans (myself included) complain about the dress for various reasons, so it will continue to be a problem until it gets changed. Im sorry it is annoying but it is an injustice to see other characters get new looks while Jean stays stagnant. There isn’t enough story to justify her relegated to Marvel “girl” status. I’ll shut up when Jean gets the recognition and respect she deserves.

No one is saying don't complain, just not on this thread

[Mercury]

No one is saying don't complain, just not on this thread

No one is even saying that, though the request would be understandable, considering the fact that this is an APPRECIATION thread. What I am saying, however, is to not continue to litter this thread with derisions and complaints to the point where that's all the thread becomes about.

[Mercury]

Does anyone know what issue this is from? Also, who is the "replacement"--Madelyne or Emma?



EDIT: Uncanny X-Men #2 (2011)

"The highest genetic-quality bride"...

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

That is Gillen Uncanny. Not sure what issue. He is referring to Emma. Tangentially related, it was during this run that it was revealed that Nathaniel is self-sexual. It was a fun series.

You've brought up some good points. However, to be clear, no one is trying to dictate what's being said here. Personally, I'm just asking that Jean not be insulted in her own appreciation thread. Calling her "nothing without the Phoenix" is patently untrue and not conducive to a fruitful discussion.

I could be petty and just start reporting posters that continue to deride and demean her in here. Based on what I've witnessed in Storm's thread, these posts would most certainly get deleted. However, I'm trying to appeal to posters. Besides, I do enjoy a good debate.



No, psi-linking all of the mutants on Earth and the SWORD station orbiting Mars (without the help of the Cuckoos), evading detection by a cosmic being--a god, in fact--to coordinate an attack on him before ransacking his mind, and yanking a Class Three Demon--a Fear Lord--from his own realm to swiftly dispel him "shows how Omega she is," dear.

It wasn't made explicit that only an Omega-level mutant can do the voting thing and the bit in King in Black was not from an X-writer at all.

As far as insulting Jean, even if someone had done that, I don't even think that is against the rules. Honestly, you are not entitled to have someone comment the way you want them to, to be frank. Respond or do not, but note that you are not required to defend (overly dramatic, btw) Jean from "attacks", neither real, imagined, or feigned.

Like...if someone thinks Jean is "nothing without the Phoenix"....who cares? If that user isn't writing her, it really does not matter what they think, beyond the purposes of entertainment here in the forum. Someone posted the other day that Storm is boring in the Unpop opinion thread; all that needs to be said there is that it sucks to have bad taste and it sucks that writers, before a couple months ago, didn't pay Storm any attention. People can post what they want.