Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[Mercury]

She could rock that look Asrar gave her when she floats into the sky first issue of Red. Asrar had her looking fly that entire series...

It's one of my favorite looks of hers. I've also thought of it as a permanent look for her. I would turn the overcoat a dark military green (see her boots), the undershirt yellow, and keep the pants black and boots the same.

[MechaJeanix]

A little mention of Jean in the Maps of Marvel. They have definitely fully settled on duplicate.

Attachment 116687

And based on this i would say that given the phoenix description an omega level telepath should basically end up being able to do anything the phoenix can.

The duplicate aspect has been official since 1986 but I like the bios that include that a part of Jean's soul (sometimes they say consciousness) was inside the duplicate of her body and mind. To me that is the most accurate and a lot of bios these days do include that information. With that part being remembered/referenced I don't have mind the retcon anymore.

Also, like Mercury pointed out Jean was Phoenix again in later years and was successful but often times in the comics the narrative is always about Dark Phoenix and Jean losing control. They hardly mention the times she was in control. Ah, well.

[MechaJeanix]

Not to bring up dress discourse but I really like the Gala outfit and think it will make a nice new costume for Jean- whether she uses it full time or part time. My only complain is that it is so green. I would probably add a little more yellow - maybe the X above her chest should be yellow?

She looks good in the devils reign preview and it appears she will be using this costume in Duggan's X-men book as well (I assume the preview page from the last X-men Monday was from X-men but I could be wrong).

[johnnysv75]

Reposting these posts since they are a way for us to look forward to Jean in 2022 (just a few days away!), and hopefully some posts about our hopes for Jean in 2022 can pause the discussion about what this board should or shouldn’t be. :-)

I think I recently asked this, but what aspects of Jean’s history would fans like to see explored in 2022?

My hope—and I think we’ll get it, especially if she switches her uniform to the Hellfire Gala outfit or something entirely new—is that Duggan delves into Jean’s reasoning for reverting to the Marvel Girl garb and moniker.

Admittedly, I’ve drafted and redrafted a one-page monologue for her—one draft has it as an internal monologue while another breaks it up into a conversation with Scott—during which she reflects on her time in stasis (1980s) and dead, or as the White Phoenix of the Crown (2004-2017); the loss of her family, particularly her parents, sister, niece, and nephew; her time-displacement and what she learned about herself and her abilities; her time leading the X-Men: Red team, and her decision to join Krakoa. I’m actually still working on it. It was inspired by Whitman’s Leaves of Grass, which I quote twice, though I may keep only one of the following quotes:

[Edit: Not sure why the Whitman quotes disappeared.]

Yes, I too would like to learn the why and where-to-fore of Jean going back to her iconic green costume and the reasons now for the change.

I would also like to see Jean in space and do some more off-earth adventures, enhanced relationship interactions with her team members, downtime with her gal-pal Lorna, bonding with Rogue and Hiro, etc.

Oh, just a small thing, but I believe the real Jean of E-616 returned to her fans in December 2018, not 2017.

I agree with you that it would be great to see an explanation to the Marvel Girl name and costume.

I would also like to see this explored. I have been waiting since the X-Men Red annual.



I truly want to see Jean explore her unlimited potential now that the Phoenix isn’t holding her back.

And maybe a first step would be to explore these aspects of her powers again.





I would also like to get closer to Jean again. Get to know her thoughts and feelings. I know that thought bubbles aren’t used anymore (a shame really, when they are used in moderation and are not as long as novellas, they can be very effective), but maybe we could have an issue or two told from Jean’s perspective.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

It's one of my favorite looks of hers. I've also thought of it as a permanent look for her. I would turn the overcoat a dark military green (see her boots), the undershirt yellow, and keep the pants black and boots the same.

Agreed, actually looking at it, I would tweak the colors too, but overall I love it.

[WallStreeter]

Not to bring up dress discourse but I really like the Gala outfit and think it will make a nice new costume for Jean- whether she uses it full time or part time. My only complain is that it is so green. I would probably add a little more yellow - maybe the X above her chest should be yellow?

She looks good in the devils reign preview and it appears she will be using this costume in Duggan's X-men book as well (I assume the preview page from the last X-men Monday was from X-men but I could be wrong).

I do love the Gala outfit. I think it it added a bit of yellow it could be something that hints Phoenix, but mot a bird symbol. Something subtle that leaves the door open.

[Mercury]

The duplicate aspect has been official since 1986 but I like the bios that include that a part of Jean's soul (sometimes they say consciousness) was inside the duplicate of her body and mind. To me that is the most accurate and a lot of bios these days do include that information. With that part being remembered/referenced I don't have mind the retcon anymore.

Part of Jean's soul/consciousness/psyche/essence--all of these words have been used--being bonded to the clone was a part of the retcon. They mention it in the Fantastic Four issue in which she officially returned. This was later expounded upon/reinterpreted during the climax of Inferno.

Also, like Mercury pointed out Jean was Phoenix again in later years and was successful but often times in the comics the narrative is always about Dark Phoenix and Jean losing control. They hardly mention the times she was in control. Ah, well.

I think this has to do with the fact that the Dark Phoenix Saga is a more well-known story. Still, her time as Phoenix during New X-Men is canon as much as Emma and Scott's affair is.

[WallStreeter]

Agreed, actually looking at it, I would tweak the colors too, but overall I love it.

That was one of my earlier points. There are street clothes looks that would look good on Jean. Like her Morrison looks. Mostly grey sweater with pants. But she occasionally wore Phoenix t-shirts.

[Harpsikord]

Not to bring up dress discourse but I really like the Gala outfit and think it will make a nice new costume for Jean- whether she uses it full time or part time. My only complain is that it is so green. I would probably add a little more yellow - maybe the X above her chest should be yellow?

She looks good in the devils reign preview and it appears she will be using this costume in Duggan's X-men book as well (I assume the preview page from the last X-men Monday was from X-men but I could be wrong).

It was from X-Men! Probably issue #8. That's Javier Pina's art, who is the artist rotating with Larraz. He also did #4.

[Wiccan]

Part of Jean's soul/consciousness/psyche/essence--all of these words have been used--being bonded to the clone was a part of the retcon. They mention it in the Fantastic Four issue in which she officially returned. This was later expounded upon/reinterpreted during the climax of Inferno.







I think this has to do with the fact that the Dark Phoenix Saga is a more well-known story. Still, her time as Phoenix during New X-Men is canon as much as Emma and Scott's affair is.

Idk, I feel like there's a big difference between those two. The first, goes more for the idea of the Phoenix had simply "copied" Jean's personality/memories/whatever to "replace her", while Claremont goes more for the idea that Phoenix Jean was really a part of her that bonded with the force.

[Tank]

It kinda is. Look at how many people have stopped posting in this thread over the past couple of months. The constant negativity drives people away.

It’s not the negativity that drives people away. Constructive criticism can bring awareness to the short comings of a character’s current portrayal. It’s certainly better for me then pretending everything is ok with Jean when it’s not.

I dont post much because there’s nothing of note regarding Jean’s character growth or impact on the stories to discuss. You take her out and the stories would function the same. The same can be said for a lot of characters that dont fall under the antihero umbrella this era though. They’re just mouth pieces.

And coming into a thread with a wall of text or a dozen images we’ve all seen before isn’t exactly engaging or inviting to old or new posters.

[Tank]

Idk, I feel like there's a big difference between those two. The first, goes more for the idea of the Phoenix had simply "copied" Jean's personality/memories/whatever to "replace her", while Claremont goes more for the idea that Phoenix Jean was really a part of her that bonded with the force.

This, there is a distinct difference, which all these handbook summaries don’t necessarily understand well.

[johnnysv75]

Idk, I feel like there's a big difference between those two. The first, goes more for the idea of the Phoenix had simply "copied" Jean's personality/memories/whatever to "replace her", while Claremont goes more for the idea that Phoenix Jean was really a part of her that bonded with the force.

Even though I will always prefer the original story where Phoenix was Jean at her ultimate potential, Claremont’s version of the retcon in Classic X-Men #8 made me somewhat okay with it.

[johnnysv75]

[Mercury]

Reposting these posts since they are a way for us to look forward to Jean in 2022 (just a few days away!), and hopefully some posts about our hopes for Jean in 2022 can pause the discussion about what this board should or shouldn’t be. :-)

[Edit: Not sure why the Whitman quotes disappeared.]

The Whitman quotes disappeared because I included them in quotes in my initial post. When you quote another poster, whatever they've quoted won't appear in your quote of their post.

Here are the Whitman quotes:

Do I contradict myself? Very well, then, I contradict myself; (I am large. I contain multitudes).

Failing to fetch me at first keep encouraged. Missing me one place, search another. I stop somewhere waiting for you.

Also, thank you for re-quoting those replies, which contain some great suggestions and material for discourse.

Agreed, actually looking at it, I would tweak the colors too, but overall I love it.

If you think about it, it's a simpler version of her New X-Men uniform, which is probably my favorite uniform of hers.

Idk, I feel like there's a big difference between those two. The first, goes more for the idea of the Phoenix had simply "copied" Jean's personality/memories/whatever to "replace her", while Claremont goes more for the idea that Phoenix Jean was really a part of her that bonded with the force.

You have somewhat of a point. However, on the page from Fantastic Four that I posted, Reed says, "Incredible as it sounds, Jean may have imbued the Phoenix with the essence of herself--mentality, spirit, even her soul--while simultaneously, her original body was healing within the cocoon."

It’s not the negativity that drives people away. Constructive criticism can bring awareness to the short comings of a character’s current portrayal. It’s certainly better for me then pretending everything is ok with Jean when it’s not.

I dont post much because there’s nothing of note regarding Jean’s character growth or impact on the stories to discuss. You take her out and the stories would function the same. The same can be said for a lot of characters that dont fall under the antihero umbrella this era though. They’re just mouth pieces.

And coming into a thread with a wall of text or a dozen images we’ve all seen before isn’t exactly engaging or inviting to old or new posters.

These are fair points. However, to a poster like me, who's been on this forum less than or a little over six months, I haven't discussed with others some of the information shared as you and others may have.