Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[Wiccan]

Even though I will always prefer the original story where Phoenix was Jean at her ultimate potential, Claremont’s version of the retcon in Classic X-Men #8 made me somewhat okay with it.

Yeah that's what I mean. I have talked before about how I think Claremont was doing the most he could to make Phoenix Jean count while not undoing the retcon (which he wouldn't be allowed to). So even if they use similar words, the way the narrative frames the situation on here and on Inferno vs when Jean first returned on FF and X-Factor feels like they're trying to say two different things.

[Mercury]

Yeah that's what I mean. I have talked before about how I think Claremont was doing the most he could to make Phoenix Jean count while not undoing the retcon (which he wouldn't be allowed to). So even if they use similar words, the way the narrative frames the situation on here and on Inferno vs when Jean first returned on FF and X-Factor feels like they're trying to say two different things.

I think it just expounds upon what Reed said in the page I posted from Fantastic Four. I get your point though.

In either case, Jean and the Phoenix Force were one during and after Morrison's run.

[WallStreeter]

Here’s hoping the rumors are true and Phoenix/Jean is in Dr. Strange 2, and we get to see a proper Phoenix costume on film.

[Wiccan]

I think it just expounds upon what Reed said in the page I posted from Fantastic Four. I get your point though.

In either case, Jean and the Phoenix Force were one during and after Morrison's run.

It's true that what Reed says already implies something like that. But just knowing that they only allowed Jean to return by having the Phoenix be a clone/fake/copy/whatever and how much they hammered that point in X-Factor, I don't think it was meant to be interpreted as Phoenix Jean being legitimate.

[Mercury]

It's true that what Reed says already implies something like that. But just knowing that they only allowed Jean to return by having the Phoenix be a clone/fake/copy/whatever and how much they hammered that point in X-Factor, I don't think it was meant to be interpreted as Phoenix Jean being legitimate.

I think the original intention of the retcon was to make clear that a part or fragment of Jean was bonded to the Phoenix clone. I think that's the case even now, which is why, after T'Challa responds to Jean implying that she was guilty of the destruction of D'Bari by saying, "That wasn't you, Jean. That was the Phoenix," Jean notes, "I was a part of it, Black Panther." It's clear that she blames herself for calling on the Phoenix Force in the first place and for being fragmentarily bonded to it.

In either case, as MechaJeanix pointed out, it would be great if they more frequently addressed her time as Phoenix during New X-Men. Moreover, I don't understand why they never thought to have her simply resurrect the D'Bari and reconstruct their planet as White Phoenix.

[MechaJeanix]

It was from X-Men! Probably issue #8. That's Javier Pina's art, who is the artist rotating with Larraz. He also did #4.

Thanks! I really like Javier Pina's art.

[MechaJeanix]

This, there is a distinct difference, which all these handbook summaries don’t necessarily understand well.

I think a lot of the handbooks just try to simplify it but nowadays you see more bios recognizing Jean was part of the Phoenix duplicate and that was because there was a merger that happened. Jean's mind and body was copied and a portion of her soul was also transferred to the new Phoenix body.

Again, I don't like the retcon because it stripped Jean of her biggest story but after Inferno I was ok with it because the part of Jean that was in the Phoenix body was returned to her plus she got the memories. It made her feel whole and the story felt complete.

It is just easier to say it was a copy and go on because there is less to have to try and explain, and I think some fans and creators never liked Jean as Phoenix and preferred the retcon. It also didn't help when writers had Jean deny the Phoenix for years and even after Inferno. It is messy, but such is comics.

At at the time of Morrison's run I felt it had all been resolved but boy was I wrong. lol Now the Phoenix is such a huge mess that I probably prefer Jean without it. They would have to do a lot of work to redeem it where Jean is concerned.

[Exodus]

At at the time of Morrison's run I felt it had all been resolved but boy was I wrong. lol Now the Phoenix is such a huge mess that I probably prefer Jean without it. They would have to do a lot of work to redeem it where Jean is concerned.

After the break-up with Jean, the Phoenix Force got a drinking problem and got attached to the wrong people? Problem solved?! Could be a BENNIFER 2.0 love story. Will Jean give Phoenix a second chance?

[Mercury]

At at the time of Morrison's run I felt it had all been resolved but boy was I wrong. lol Now the Phoenix is such a huge mess that I probably prefer Jean without it. They would have to do a lot of work to redeem it where Jean is concerned.

My idea for this is simple: Jean is the core fragment of the Phoenix Force, i.e., she can never be separated from it, neither it from her. When she rejected it during Phoenix Resurrection, she simply fragmentized it, inadvertently lending it to others--currently, Echo. One day she transcends her guilt and fear regarding birthright and says, "To me, my Phoenix." The end.

[Exodus]

My idea for this is simple: Jean is the core fragment of the Phoenix Force, i.e., she can never be separated from it, neither it from her. When she rejected it during Phoenix Resurrection, she simply fragmentized it, inadvertently lending it to others--currently, Echo. One day she transcends her guilt and fear regarding birthright and says, "To me, my Phoenix." The end.

I like my Bennifer idea better. Sorry, I'llask Aaron to write it. Is he on twitter?

[Stormultt Divine]

I've always wanted this explored more, jean being able to go in and out of being white phoenix, doing phoenix work. Meeting other phoenix avatars from across other universes. You know...NEW stuff.



We need the phoenix reigned in back to just JEAN...and new take on the mythos centered around her.

[Exodus]

I've always wanted this explored more, jean being able to go in and out of being white phoenix, doing phoenix work. Meeting other phoenix avatars from across other universes. You know...NEW stuff.



We need the phoenix reigned in back to just JEAN...and new take on the mythos centered around her.

I agree. there is so much potential here. I would really like to know what the x-office reasoning for their decision is. Is the Phoenix Force really more interesting and profitable in Aaron's hands? Is Jean Dark Phoenix storyline not one of the most liked comicbook storyline of all times? Are only hardcore fans interested in her relationship with it?

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

We need the phoenix reigned in back to just JEAN...and new take on the mythos centered around her.

Hard agree. Maybe in a more progressive era.

[johnnysv75]

My idea for this is simple: Jean is the core fragment of the Phoenix Force, i.e., she can never be separated from it, neither it from her. When she rejected it during Phoenix Resurrection, she simply fragmentized it, inadvertently lending it to others--currently, Echo. One day she transcends her guilt and fear regarding birthright and says, "To me, my Phoenix." The end.

My idea is that Jean in Uncanny X-Men 100-101 became a being of pure psionic energy, boosted by the solar flare, and became the original Phoenix. (Just like the story originally is told.) When Jean died on the moon in UXM #137, the Phoenix part of her, the core part of her psionic powers, survived as a separate entity. It started bonding with different creatures in order to survive and grew stronger, becoming a force on its own. It still needed to bond with other beings, however. It gained the knowledge and powers from beings it bonded with, growing ever stronger. And then one of them was a time traveller. The Phoenix force was now able to travel back in time, looking for its creator (Jean). It ended up in the Big Bang, gaining even more cosmic powers, and then we have the story told about its origin in Excalibur (at least I think that was where Big Bang was mentioned), that the Phoenix is one of the oldest beings in the universe.
Since it originated from Jean, before evolving into a separate being, this explains why it was attracted to the cavewoman, who resembles Jean. And why it always wants to return to Jean.
Since Jean had created a cocoon for her body to heal in, as a second chance, she has no first hand memory of how she was the true, original Phoenix. Yes, she has gotten its memories, but not before she was told what had happened, so the memories she got were influenced by what she was told.

It is not perfect by any means, but this would both keep the Phoenix force retcon as well as have Jean be the one, true original Phoenix.

[Mercury]

I like my Bennifer idea better. Sorry, I'llask Aaron to write it. Is he on twitter?

I have no idea if Aaron is on Twitter, though he probably is. Also, I like my idea better too. :P

I've always wanted this explored more, jean being able to go in and out of being white phoenix, doing phoenix work. Meeting other phoenix avatars from across other universes. You know...NEW stuff.



We need the phoenix reigned in back to just JEAN...and new take on the mythos centered around her.

I agree. there is so much potential here. I would really like to know what the x-office reasoning for their decision is. Is the Phoenix Force really more interesting and profitable in Aaron's hands? Is Jean Dark Phoenix storyline not one of the most liked comicbook storyline of all times? Are only hardcore fans interested in her relationship with it?

Hard agree. Maybe in a more progressive era.

One thing you three can find solace in is the fact that nothing is permanent in comics. Jean's deaths weren't permanent, even though at least one was intended to be, and, I assume, her separation from the Phoenix Force won't be permanent either. I'm just enjoying that she's back and musing on the possibilities for her development. I'm living my best life as a Jean fan. Bitterness is so unbecoming. Besides, it makes you old before your time.

My idea is that Jean in Uncanny X-Men 100-101 became a being of pure psionic energy, boosted by the solar flare, and became the original Phoenix. When Jean died on the moon in UXM #137, the Phoenix part of her, the core part of her psionic powers, survived as a separate entity. It started bonding with different creatures in order to survive and grew stronger, becoming a force on its own. It still needed to bond with other beings, however. It gained the knowledge and powers from beings it bonded with, growing ever stronger. And then one of them was a time traveller. The Phoenix force was now able to travel back in time, looking for its creator (Jean). It ended up in the Big Bang, gaining even more cosmic powers, and then we have the story told about its origin in Excalibur (at least I think that was where Big Bang was mentioned), that the Phoenix is one of the oldest beings in the universe.
Since it originated from Jean, before evolving into a separate being, this explains why it was attracted to the cavewoman, who resembles Jean. And why it always wants to return to Jean.
Since Jean had created a cocoon for her body to heal in, as a second chance, she has no first hand memory of how she was the true, original Phoenix. Yes, she has gotten its memories, but not before she was told what had happened, so the memories she got were influenced by what she was told.

It is not perfect by any means, but this would both keep the Phoenix force retcon as well as have Jean be the one, true original Phoenix.

A bit complicated but still, what an interesting story!