Page 719 of 719 FirstFirst ... 219619669709715716717718719
Results 10,771 to 10,783 of 10783
  1. #10771
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2021
    Location
    My mind.
    Posts
    4,611

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BobbysWorld View Post
    I'm just copying and pasting my post from the Most Controversial X-Franchise opinion because of Johnnysv5's idea for the Phoenix and Jean.....because ironically, its actually pretty similar to one of the original ideas for Jean and omega mutants in general when they first did X-Men Forever in the 90s. Putting it here since not everybody goes into that thread obviously and its relevant to this particular discussion, I feel:

    My controversial opinion on the X-Universe was I preferred the take where the Phoenix was always Jean and Jean was always the Phoenix. It was the basis behind the original X-Men Forever miniseries establishing omegas, and why Bobby was chosen as the other original omega aside from her. Basically the idea as I understood it was that the Phoenix was always the ultimate evolution of Jean herself, what she could grow to become in thousands of years, kept alive via her own mutant power and telekinetic control over her molecular structure and her psyche, until a point where she transcended the need for a physical body and just existed as the Phoenix. But as for the Phoenix existing in the past.....that's because Jean's ultimate omega potential was to exist as an entity of pure telekinetic and telepathic godhood anywhere in TIME and space. Because see, Nathan and Rachel inherited her powers.....and the idea was that Rachel's chronoskimming power, to psychically see through time, was supposed to be rooted in a latent aspect of Jean's own powers, something that would unlock with her full potential.

    And thus that's how Jean would become the Phoenix but still exist millions of years in the past, and be the basis of the Shi'ar legends and all that, etc. And its ALSO why she and her descendants are the prime 'hosts' for the Phoenix.....because when the Phoenix 'possessed' her, it was really just Jean's fully evolved and transcended self REUNITING with its own initial human existence....and in the process being reminded of human wants, needs and concerns, what it was like to be human, something the Phoenix had forgotten due to its endless eons of existence. And similarly, when it bonded with Rachel, it was the connection to her daughter that Jean/The Phoenix was resonating with. That's why even though the Phoenix has always been hosted by telepaths, seeking a symbiosis with mortal minds that reminded it of its origins, Jean and Rachel were its 'true' hosts, because they were of it in a way no one else was.

    And then that's also why Bobby was chosen to be the other omega mutant, because although Claremont created The First Fallen to be the Phoenix's opposite, the idea at the time that making Jean and the Phoenix one and the same was what was floating around the X-office, it was Bobby who was intended to be its opposite in that way......because Bobby's full omega potential isn't making ice or controlling water, its essentially.....stopping energy, taking it away. Ending things.

    See, when X-Men Forever first floated the idea of omega mutants, it was in a story with Celestials, and the whole idea was that omegas were the ultimate culmination of the Celestials' experiments on Earth. They were the point, the end goal. Beings who would someday evolve to take the place of the current Abstracts like Oblivion and Death and become the mechanism that would end this universe and start the next one. Jean as the Phoenix and Bobby were the fundamental starting point/lynch pin of that concept, as at their ultimate evolution, millions of years in the future long after they'd transcended existing as mortal bodies and were just pure power and consciousness.....Bobby would be the inevitable heat-death of the universe, the one who finally just said to all things "Stop" and ground the mechanism of the current universe to a stop, all that is ending with the absolute death of heat, which is of course just the result of molecules in motion and without it, molecules have no motion and nothing anywhere moves or does anything.....and then his counterpart, Jean, the Phoenix, was the spark that would take the graveyard of this universe and use it as kindling to ignite the next Big Bang, birthing the next universe. With whatever other omegas existed/transcended by then being the only other things besides them that would survive, and then they'd be what created the mechanisms of the new universe and becoming the Abstract/Framework entities of the next universe.
    BobbysWorld! Can I nestle myself in your mind? This is quite beautiful and makes so much sense. It also makes me want to reread X-Men Forever. Your posts really sweep me away.


  2. #10772
    Mighty Member Exodus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Posts
    1,431

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BobbysWorld View Post
    I'm just copying and pasting my post from the Most Controversial X-Franchise opinion because of Johnnysv5's idea for the Phoenix and Jean.....because ironically, its actually pretty similar to one of the original ideas for Jean and omega mutants in general when they first did X-Men Forever in the 90s. Putting it here since not everybody goes into that thread obviously and its relevant to this particular discussion, I feel:

    My controversial opinion on the X-Universe was I preferred the take where the Phoenix was always Jean and Jean was always the Phoenix. It was the basis behind the original X-Men Forever miniseries establishing omegas, and why Bobby was chosen as the other original omega aside from her. Basically the idea as I understood it was that the Phoenix was always the ultimate evolution of Jean herself, what she could grow to become in thousands of years, kept alive via her own mutant power and telekinetic control over her molecular structure and her psyche, until a point where she transcended the need for a physical body and just existed as the Phoenix. But as for the Phoenix existing in the past.....that's because Jean's ultimate omega potential was to exist as an entity of pure telekinetic and telepathic godhood anywhere in TIME and space. Because see, Nathan and Rachel inherited her powers.....and the idea was that Rachel's chronoskimming power, to psychically see through time, was supposed to be rooted in a latent aspect of Jean's own powers, something that would unlock with her full potential.

    And thus that's how Jean would become the Phoenix but still exist millions of years in the past, and be the basis of the Shi'ar legends and all that, etc. And its ALSO why she and her descendants are the prime 'hosts' for the Phoenix.....because when the Phoenix 'possessed' her, it was really just Jean's fully evolved and transcended self REUNITING with its own initial human existence....and in the process being reminded of human wants, needs and concerns, what it was like to be human, something the Phoenix had forgotten due to its endless eons of existence. And similarly, when it bonded with Rachel, it was the connection to her daughter that Jean/The Phoenix was resonating with. That's why even though the Phoenix has always been hosted by telepaths, seeking a symbiosis with mortal minds that reminded it of its origins, Jean and Rachel were its 'true' hosts, because they were of it in a way no one else was.

    And then that's also why Bobby was chosen to be the other omega mutant, because although Claremont created The First Fallen to be the Phoenix's opposite, the idea at the time that making Jean and the Phoenix one and the same was what was floating around the X-office, it was Bobby who was intended to be its opposite in that way......because Bobby's full omega potential isn't making ice or controlling water, its essentially.....stopping energy, taking it away. Ending things.

    See, when X-Men Forever first floated the idea of omega mutants, it was in a story with Celestials, and the whole idea was that omegas were the ultimate culmination of the Celestials' experiments on Earth. They were the point, the end goal. Beings who would someday evolve to take the place of the current Abstracts like Oblivion and Death and become the mechanism that would end this universe and start the next one. Jean as the Phoenix and Bobby were the fundamental starting point/lynch pin of that concept, as at their ultimate evolution, millions of years in the future long after they'd transcended existing as mortal bodies and were just pure power and consciousness.....Bobby would be the inevitable heat-death of the universe, the one who finally just said to all things "Stop" and ground the mechanism of the current universe to a stop, all that is ending with the absolute death of heat, which is of course just the result of molecules in motion and without it, molecules have no motion and nothing anywhere moves or does anything.....and then his counterpart, Jean, the Phoenix, was the spark that would take the graveyard of this universe and use it as kindling to ignite the next Big Bang, birthing the next universe. With whatever other omegas existed/transcended by then being the only other things besides them that would survive, and then they'd be what created the mechanisms of the new universe and becoming the Abstract/Framework entities of the next universe.
    Yes! That's exactly what we need as an explanation. I think your description beautifully elaborates the next step of what Morrison's run meant by telling us that Jean is transcending her humanity. She becomes a cosmic entity that is called Phoenix Force. And this apotheosis into godhood of course leads to new otherworldly abilities difficult to fathom like existing outside of a lineal understanding of time, etc.

    I think we can indeed still understand the Phoenix Force as Jean's ultimate fate.
    Last edited by Exodus; 12-31-2021 at 03:08 AM.

  3. #10773
    Incredible Member johnnysv75's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    511

    Default

    BobbysWorld, your post moved me to tears and gave me goosebumps. Pure shivers. It felt like my mind expanded just by reading it. What a perfect read the last day of 2021. Here’s to a great 2022 for Jean, and for all of you here in the CBR community.

  4. #10774
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2021
    Location
    My mind.
    Posts
    4,611

    Default

    Same to you, Johnny!

    Also, I forgot to post this, which was published by ScreenRant on the 26th:

    The Phoenix Force: Every Host In Marvel Comics History

    https://screenrant.com/the-x-mens-ph...s-history/amp/



  5. #10775
    Incredible Member johnnysv75's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    511

    Default

    Tried to find the X-Men Forever limited series on Marvel Unlimited and the Marvel Comics app. But it wasn’t there. Would really like to read it again, even though the actual comic is a watered down version of the original idea that BobbysWorld wrote about. I wonder what made them abandon that idea. It is an amazing take on omega mutants, an improvement over Hickman’s. Just as imaginative as Morrison’s run. Such a great way of making it clear that the Phoenix is Jean and Jean is Phoenix, no matter how many hosts the Phoenix has.

    It makes me sad to know that a huge story was in the works for two of my favorite characters, and then for some reason it became the watered down version we eventually got. Maybe the powers at be thought that it would make Jean and Bobby too powerful. (Even though in the present comics they wouldn’t be as powerful since they wouldn’t reach their ultimate potential for thousands of years.)

  6. #10776
    Mighty Member Subliminally's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2021
    Posts
    1,353

    Default

    Happy New Years Eve/Day to all of you! With 2022 I hope Jean not only reclaims her place amongst the top of Mutantdom but also gets rid of that damn dress once and for all! I'm also going to throw in that she uses her pink form more often.
    Through lightning and rain, break down the walls and unlock these chains!

  7. #10777
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2021
    Location
    My mind.
    Posts
    4,611

    Default

    Thank you, Subliminally! Also, I really do think Jean has great things coming her way this year. Things have already begun shifting for her in positive ways. Here's to fruitful 2022!

  8. #10778
    Ultimate Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    10,259

    Default

    Happy New Year 2022 to you too, Subliminally! Once again, you made me laugh. May Jean have gotten a new costume for Christmas, lol, that she will debut in 2022.

    Happy New Year 2022 to Jean Grey Fans everywhere in the Galaxy!
    Last edited by Phoenixx9; 12-31-2021 at 01:23 PM.
    [Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El 10-15-2020 12:32 PM]


    "Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."

  9. #10779
    Mighty Member Exodus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Posts
    1,431

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Subliminally View Post
    Happy New Years Eve/Day to all of you! With 2022 I hope Jean not only reclaims her place amongst the top of Mutantdom but also gets rid of that damn dress once and for all! I'm also going to throw in that she uses her pink form more often.
    Amen to all of it! and let the pink form also have a bird-shaped aura to it.

  10. #10780
    Mighty Member Subliminally's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2021
    Posts
    1,353

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    Thank you, Subliminally! Also, I really do think Jean has great things coming her way this year. Things have already begun shifting for her in positive ways. Here's to fruitful 2022!
    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    Happy New Year 2022 to you too, Subliminally! Once again, you made me laugh. May Jean have gotten a new costume for Christmas, lol, that she will debut in 2022.

    Happy New Year 2022 to Jean Grey Fans everywhere in the Galaxy!
    Quote Originally Posted by Exodus View Post
    Amen to all of it! and let the pink form also have a bird-shaped aura to it.
    Her time is coming, it has to be. If there's one thing Jean and Storm fans can find common ground it's that both of them are no stranger to sitting in limbo doing nothing or just there to be "there". Just like with Storm, it'll just take that one writer to reignite the spark in the X-Office.


    The phoenix imagery is for Jean. Period. I mean even Rachel had the imagery with no force to be found iirc. So there is precedent of having the image without the actual force.
    Through lightning and rain, break down the walls and unlock these chains!

  11. #10781
    The Joker was right! The Agent of Chaos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2021
    Posts
    869

    Default

    After No Way Home, I want to see an Exiles series with a de-aged Famke Janssen with these Phoenix effects:



    What do you guys think?

  12. #10782
    Marvel Girl Could Never! Kitty&Piotr<3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Posts
    2,639

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnysv75 View Post
    I find a lot of good stuff in this era, but this post was so damn well written that I laughed out loud.
    A cyber hug to you.

    (And I do think 2022 will be a good year for Jean!)
    Cyber hug right back at ya!
    #FreeSCEMMA

    "Yes, it was a kind of adultery, but at the same time Jean wasn't being his wife anymore. I just felt that the spark between them had died out and it was time to give Scott someone else."
    -Grant Morrison on how it was Jean's fault Scott cheated.

    "Cyclops loves wilted roses because they remind him of dead redheads."
    -Gail

  13. #10783
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2021
    Location
    My mind.
    Posts
    4,611

    Default

    Happy New Year to ALL OF YOU! May you all have a blessed and fruitful new year!

    New thread: https://community.cbr.com/showthread...reciation-2022 (still under construction)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •