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  1. #46
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    little off topic but you should definitely catch up, it's looking like like it's gonna be a great year for One Piece
    Except if you're a Sanji/Usopp/Carrot fan like myself XD !

  2. #47
    Mighty Member Drako's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    Except if you're a Sanji/Usopp/Carrot fan like myself XD !
    I'm confident my boy Sanji will defeat a Yonkou Commander this year!
    But we should bring this conversation to the One Piece thread and not derail this one.

  3. #48
    Incredible Member MarFarr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    I'm not sure what you were expecting but that's unfortunate to hear for you; I got pretty much what I wanted out of this. I don't know if it was his idea or Williamson's to have the trade off in mantle between this and Justice but that had me worried about how much Jackson as Aquaman would be portrayed. ultimately, Thomas does a great job introducing and balancing Jackson and Andy's relationship. I assume Andy's gonna get a little more focus next issue but i'm actuality excited about it and I'm confident Jackson won't suffer for it. I really hope they set up like this because DC has plans for Jackson taking over as Aquaman or they've got more of his Aquaman in an elseworld or something because I would love for more time with him
    I beg to disagree, The story is full of potholes, both Andy and Jackson aren't impressive. A brat and a dude. None of the two comes out as likeable. Next issue is gonna be only about Andy and it has been already tweeted.

    As for DC plans its gonna be Andy that takes the role. Shea has been clear that they consider her their rising star.

    Also The tweets of Shea about pirate sites harming the sales for FS-Aquaman indicates that the book won't be doing well. With the non promoting of the book by DC its hardly surprising. Can't understand what they expected? how on earth can a book do well when its left without marketing?

    Jackson needs a book with other similar characters or a solo in an elseworld, in Aquaman he is gonna be a wallpaper with Arthur, Mera and now Andy being front and center.
    The growing popularity of Mera and now Andy, also, with a movie sequel coming soon about Arthur, any future book will be about them. Aquaman book sells well with Arthur and Mera front and center this is now obvious. We have seen that when separated it sinks. We got a solos with Jackson and they flopped.

    I repeat, he needs a book that is not Aquaman, but about Jackson Hyde. Aquaman will always be Arthur Curry, Jackson can shine if he is taken out of that context, in which he will always be unfairly compared with Arthur. He can be his own character and distinguishes himself.
    If they had plans about him they would not have brought in Andy and make her the Aquawoman in JL.

  4. #49
    Hey Baby--Wha's Happ'nin? HandofPrometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarFarr View Post
    I beg to disagree, The story is full of potholes, both Andy and Jackson aren't impressive. A brat and a dude. None of the two comes out as likeable. Next issue is gonna be only about Andy and it has been already tweeted.

    As for DC plans its gonna be Andy that takes the role. Shea has been clear that they consider her their rising star.

    Also The tweets of Shea about pirate sites harming the sales for FS-Aquaman indicates that the book won't be doing well. With the non promoting of the book by DC its hardly surprising. Can't understand what they expected? how on earth can a book do well when its left without marketing?

    Jackson needs a book with other similar characters or a solo in an elseworld, in Aquaman he is gonna be a wallpaper with Arthur, Mera and now Andy being front and center.
    The growing popularity of Mera and now Andy, also, with a movie sequel coming soon about Arthur, any future book will be about them. Aquaman book sells well with Arthur and Mera front and center this is now obvious. We have seen that when separated it sinks. We got a solos with Jackson and they flopped.

    I repeat, he needs a book that is not Aquaman, but about Jackson Hyde. Aquaman will always be Arthur Curry, Jackson can shine if he is taken out of that context, in which he will always be unfairly compared with Arthur. He can be his own character and distinguishes himself.
    If they had plans about him they would not have brought in Andy and make her the Aquawoman in JL.
    This is pure fear-mongering. The way you keep linking Andy's success to Mera and Arthur is the same way Jackson is linked to Black Manta and Aquaman. Black Manta is getting a larger role in the movies which can mean Jackson is right behind him. James Wan already said he wants to get Aquaman established before introducing Aqualad so he's already on his mind.

    We didn't get any solos from Jackson and trying to gauge a character's success from two issues that were already from a declining book doesn't indicate anything.

    You seem very eager to throw Jackson out of Aquaman's mythos but Andy is still a baby and won't be participating in anything other than cute panels unless they age her up which is already going poorly with Jon. I agree with Jackson needing his own space to do things to get some much needed development, but if Miles can exist in his own space with Peter still around ( and the same for other sidekicks in Marvel) I don't see how throwing Jackson in some "elseworld" is a favor.

  5. #50
    Incredible Member MarFarr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandofPrometheus View Post
    This is pure fear-mongering. The way you keep linking Andy's success to Mera and Arthur is the same way Jackson is linked to Black Manta and Aquaman. Black Manta is getting a larger role in the movies which can mean Jackson is right behind him. James Wan already said he wants to get Aquaman established before introducing Aqualad so he's already on his mind.

    We didn't get any solos from Jackson and trying to gauge a character's success from two issues that were already from a declining book doesn't indicate anything.

    You seem very eager to throw Jackson out of Aquaman's mythos but Andy is still a baby and won't be participating in anything other than cute panels unless they age her up which is already going poorly with Jon. I agree with Jackson needing his own space to do things to get some much needed development, but if Miles can exist in his own space with Peter still around ( and the same for other sidekicks in Marvel) I don't see how throwing Jackson in some "elseworld" is a favor.
    read what shea is tweeting..... she must grow to be the love of Jess Chambers.

    Jackson will always suffer from comparisons, he needs to be his own person not a replacement and neither that old fashioned title of Aqualad. Let him be Jackson Hyde. Aquaman is already too crowded, Its a book about two Superheroes not one but if you are happy for him to have some few panels occasionally.
    Last edited by MarFarr; 01-27-2021 at 09:01 AM.

  6. #51
    Uncanny King-Kamalu lemonpeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarFarr View Post
    I beg to disagree, The story is full of potholes, both Andy and Jackson aren't impressive. A brat and a dude. None of the two comes out as likeable. Next issue is gonna be only about Andy and it has been already tweeted.

    As for DC plans its gonna be Andy that takes the role. Shea has been clear that they consider her their rising star.

    Also The tweets of Shea about pirate sites harming the sales for FS-Aquaman indicates that the book won't be doing well. With the non promoting of the book by DC its hardly surprising. Can't understand what they expected? how on earth can a book do well when its left without marketing?

    Jackson needs a book with other similar characters or a solo in an elseworld, in Aquaman he is gonna be a wallpaper with Arthur, Mera and now Andy being front and center.
    The growing popularity of Mera and now Andy, also, with a movie sequel coming soon about Arthur, any future book will be about them. Aquaman book sells well with Arthur and Mera front and center this is now obvious. We have seen that when separated it sinks. We got a solos with Jackson and they flopped.

    I repeat, he needs a book that is not Aquaman, but about Jackson Hyde. Aquaman will always be Arthur Curry, Jackson can shine if he is taken out of that context, in which he will always be unfairly compared with Arthur. He can be his own character and distinguishes himself.
    If they had plans about him they would not have brought in Andy and make her the Aquawoman in JL.
    hey man, you feel how you feel, your criticisms seem kinda, iunno shallow(?), I'm just not seeing what you saw. I guess it's a matter of different personal taste. the next issue will focus on Andy but, just like Andy was featured in Jackson's side he'll feature in her's. the title is still called AQUAMAN and he's the AQUAMAN, so obviously they're not gonna have him be absent. as for Andy taking over the role or being pushed to the forefront before Jackson, that's pretty...improbable imo. the amount of shenanigans that'll have to happen to make that happen just seems less likely to me than Jackson simply taking over the role of Aquaman. especially considering how popular the concept (both him and him as Aquaman) has already been since it was introduced in YJ. at best, we'll get Andy as sidekick age like Yara but at which point she's almost definitely gonna be Jackson's protege so \_( '-')_/

    but that aside, as for Jackson being wallpaper in Aquaman, I'm not sure why that would have to be the case. Andy is hardly front and center currently, she's an infant in contemporary time and Future State she's a sidekick in one book and part of an ensemble in the other, she's not exactly as a Yara Flor or Jace Fox in terms of popularity. KSD's run was the first time Jackson has been properly partnered up with Aquaman in years and it's worked well enough, I'm not sure why we need to divorce him from that partnership so prematurely. he's BEEN with "other similar characters" on team books for years and that's done not much for him, it's about time DC invest in Jackson in his home mythos in continuity. the ancillary route of elseworlds and team books has been the cowards path DC's taken with Jackson, Wallace, Duke, and other proteges of color over the years; it's not cutting it. you may personally not want Jackson to be Aquaman but i don't think him being Aquaman is unlikely, or means he can't be his own character as Aquaman, nor do I think pushing him away from the aquaverse toward elseworlds and whatever grabbag team books DC wants to put together is a good look either. different strokes I guess.
    Last edited by lemonpeace; 01-27-2021 at 09:14 AM.
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  7. #52
    Incredible Member MarFarr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    hey man, you feel how you feel, your criticisms seem kinda, iunno shallow(?), I'm just not seeing what you saw. I guess it's a matter of different personal taste. the next issue will focus on Andy but, just like Andy was featured in Jackson's side he'll feature in her's. the title is still called AQUAMAN and he's the AQUAMAN, so obviously they're not gonna have him be absent. as for Andy taking over the role or being pushed to the forefront before Jackson, that's pretty...improbable imo. the amount of shenanigans that'll have to happen to make that happen just seems less likely to me than Jackson simply taking over the role of Aquaman. especially considering how popular the concept (both him and him as Aquaman) has already been since it was introduced in YJ. at best, we'll get Andy as sidekick age like Yara but at which point she's almost definitely gonna be Jackson's protege so \_( '-')_/

    but that aside, as for Jackson being wallpaper in Aquaman, I'm not sure why that would have to be the case. Andy is hardly front and center currently, she's an infant in contemporary time and Future State she's a sidekick in one book and part of an ensemble in the other, she's not exactly as a Yara Flor or Jace Fox in terms of popularity. KSD's run was the first time Jackson has been properly partnered up with Aquaman in years and it's worked well enough, I'm not sure why we need to divorce him from that partnership so prematurely. he's BEEN with "other similar characters" on team books for years and that's done not much for him, it's about time DC invest in Jackson in his home mythos in continuity. the ancillary route of elseworlds and team books has been the cowards path DC's taken with Jackson, Wallace, Duke, and other proteges of color over the years; it's not cutting it. you may personally not want Jackson to be Aquaman but i don't think him being Aquaman is unlikely, or means he can't be his own character as Aquaman, nor do I think pushing him away from the aquaverse toward elseworlds and whatever grabbag team books DC wants to put together is a good look either. different strokes I guess.
    You miss the point, Aquaman book since 2011 is about two superheroes Arthur and Mera. To an extent that DC is even considering changing the book title to reflect that. Both Geoff Johns and KSD said that Mera's character is so overwhelming that she can overshadow the rest, but she is pivotal for the book to work. Few books are about 2 superheroes, that already requires a delicate balance to achieve.

    As for the partnership Aquaman and Aqualad working well it doesn't seem the case, as the book lost readers since Jackson reappeared. Mind it I am not blaming Jackson for that at all!. It could have been any other character in his place.
    You can't expect any better from a character who has been missing for 10years. His two solos in August and September lost 1/3 of readers in an already declining book and once the proper run returned the book recovered the readership or most of it.

    Ask yourself a question, Why do you thing they brought in Andy from nowhere? If they really had any intention of pushing him, why its Andy in Future State Justice League and not him? There was no need of Andy in the first place, when they had him available and even Garth for that purpose!
    As for next issue https://twitter.com/Sampere_art/stat...45208359915520

    Jackson needs to be developed and built up and that can't happen in a book in which Arthur and Mera are so large. It won't do him any good to be the sidekick in an already overcrowded book. To give him space you have to sacrifice one of the two main leads and that would lead to a drop in sales. The book can't survive without either Arthur or Mera. Sales have proven that all along these last 10years. The last year with Mera mostly sidelined, it lost sales as never it the last 10years. Claiming the contrary or avoiding these facts will not change things.
    Maybe you missed the point, that DC won't tolerate any book not doing well at sales!

    I want Jackson to grow as a character, I want him to have his space, but I can't see that happen in a book that's as I said is already overcrowded. What's wrong in developing him in another book? or its enough to have few panels in an Aquaman issue just to make few fans happy, well it won't help him. This is not the Aquaman book of the sixties with Aqualad, those times are over.

    Pointing out the obvious seems not to go well, I don't hate the character at all, was it for me I would give a book of his own. But just to have him around being a sidekick won't help the character.

  8. #53
    Extraordinary Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    So, Future State aside, I've only read Hyde in passing through some Teen Titans crossovers, and saw him reintroduced in Rebirth. He seems to be pretty different to Kaldur in personality. I think I've asked this before, but do fans see him growing into his more confident personality in recent stories? Can the two versions be reconciled?

  9. #54
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarFarr View Post
    You miss the point, Aquaman book since 2011 is about two superheroes Arthur and Mera. To an extent that DC is even considering changing the book title to reflect that. Both Geoff Johns and KSD said that Mera's character is so overwhelming that she can overshadow the rest, but she is pivotal for the book to work. Few books are about 2 superheroes, that already requires a delicate balance to achieve.

    As for the partnership Aquaman and Aqualad working well it doesn't seem the case, as the book lost readers since Jackson reappeared. Mind it I am not blaming Jackson for that at all!. It could have been any other character in his place.
    You can't expect any better from a character who has been missing for 10years. His two solos in August and September lost 1/3 of readers in an already declining book and once the proper run returned the book recovered the readership or most of it.

    Ask yourself a question, Why do you thing they brought in Andy from nowhere? If they really had any intention of pushing him, why its Andy in Future State Justice League and not him? There was no need of Andy in the first place, when they had him available and even Garth for that purpose!
    As for next issue https://twitter.com/Sampere_art/stat...45208359915520

    Jackson needs to be developed and built up and that can't happen in a book in which Arthur and Mera are so large. It won't do him any good to be the sidekick in an already overcrowded book. To give him space you have to sacrifice one of the two main leads and that would lead to a drop in sales. The book can't survive without either Arthur or Mera. Sales have proven that all along these last 10years. The last year with Mera mostly sidelined, it lost sales as never it the last 10years. Claiming the contrary or avoiding these facts will not change things.
    Maybe you missed the point, that DC won't tolerate any book not doing well at sales!

    I want Jackson to grow as a character, I want him to have his space, but I can't see that happen in a book that's as I said is already overcrowded. What's wrong in developing him in another book? or its enough to have few panels in an Aquaman issue just to make few fans happy, well it won't help him. This is not the Aquaman book of the sixties with Aqualad, those times are over.

    Pointing out the obvious seems not to go well, I don't hate the character at all, was it for me I would give a book of his own. But just to have him around being a sidekick won't help the character.
    I don't think Arthur and Mera are that over-encompassing that you can't develop other characters, let alone Aquaman's protege.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning Rider View Post
    So, Future State aside, I've only read Hyde in passing through some Teen Titans crossovers, and saw him reintroduced in Rebirth. He seems to be pretty different to Kaldur in personality. I think I've asked this before, but do fans see him growing into his more confident personality in recent stories? Can the two versions be reconciled?
    He became a lot more confident and sure of himself during the last few issues of the previous volume. He's not really Kaldur but he's getting there at least in terms of capability.

  10. #55
    Incredible Member MarFarr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I don't think Arthur and Mera are that over-encompassing that you can't develop other characters, let alone Aquaman's protege.
    They take space, its a book nowadays about two not just one superhero - KSD said that balancing them is not easy. One of the criticism about her run was that the cast of characters gets a little crowded.

    Ideally we have another book based on the other Aquaworld characters, It would be the basis on which these characters can be developed not just Jackson but I also think of Tula, Tempest, dolphin etc. that otherwise will always be supporting cast. Aquaworld has characters with lots of potential that need to be developed. Jackson is the foremost of these characters.
    Similar characters with obvious different personalities and family ties are a cornerstone of the Batman, Superman etc. titles and capitalizing upon Aquaman's unique family of characters has been long overdue. In the main book they are getting less space that does not mean they are excluded from it, on the contrary building them properly could benefit the main title.
    Last edited by MarFarr; 01-27-2021 at 12:53 PM.

  11. #56
    Uncanny King-Kamalu lemonpeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning Rider View Post
    So, Future State aside, I've only read Hyde in passing through some Teen Titans crossovers, and saw him reintroduced in Rebirth. He seems to be pretty different to Kaldur in personality. I think I've asked this before, but do fans see him growing into his more confident personality in recent stories? Can the two versions be reconciled?
    I think the last couple years he's been getting closer to that more confident and capable take on the character. I think if they keep on the path he'll finally get there with time. the biggest difference is Kaldur is a lot more stoic than Jackson but I actually think that's a good thing because it let's his character be more expressive and light. if they can keep developing his confidence and autonomy he'll be pretty perfect. I'd also love for him to be pan like Kaldur but I can take or leave that if they get him to be as badass as Kaldur.
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  12. #57
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarFarr View Post
    They take space, its a book nowadays about two not just one superhero - KSD said that balancing them is not easy. One of the criticism about her run was that the cast of characters gets a little crowded.

    Ideally we have another book based on the other Aquaworld characters, It would be the basis on which these characters can be developed not just Jackson but I also think of Tula, Tempest, dolphin etc. that otherwise will always be supporting cast. Aquaworld has characters with lots of potential that need to be developed. Jackson is the foremost of these characters.
    Similar characters with obvious different personalities and family ties are a cornerstone of the Batman, Superman etc. titles and capitalizing upon Aquaman's unique family of characters has been long overdue. In the main book they are getting less space that does not mean they are excluded from it, on the contrary building them properly could benefit the main title.
    Of out of all my criticisms of KSD's run, it being overcrowded really didn't seem like that big of an issue (now, whether I cared as much for the supporting cast is another story).

    I don't think we can carry another satellite Aqua-title (how long did The Others' book last? Not that long). I think with the right writer they can balance everyone well.

  13. #58
    Incredible Member MarFarr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Of out of all my criticisms of KSD's run, it being overcrowded really didn't seem like that big of an issue (now, whether I cared as much for the supporting cast is another story).
    Overcrowded is one the criticism she receives, besides, Arthur, Mera, you had Jackson, a bunch of new Gods(caille, wee etc), Tristam Maurer, Tula, Widows, Murk, Vulko, Andy, Orm, Manta, Namma, dolphin, Pilot, Lernaea
    You know I liked her run butHonestly too much and most of them stuck around the whole run.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I don't think we can carry another satellite Aqua-title (how long did The Others' book last? Not that long). I think with the right writer they can balance everyone well.
    problem is finding such writer, Is Dc ready to give Aquaman book to a writer with such requirements? KSD herself I repeat said that balancing the two main leads is difficult and her solution was to take one off at times. End Result drop in sales. Johns and Parker managed to balance that with less supporting cast.

    I know its not probable to have another satellite book, but it could be ideal one. Aquaman Deep Dives comes to my mind for example, in which even Tula had her space.
    Characters like Jackson, Dolphin, Tula etc are all ripe to be developed, otherwise they will always have less chance of being so, when squashed in a book of 22pages in which they are supporting characters.
    Last edited by MarFarr; 01-27-2021 at 02:08 PM.

  14. #59
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    I enjoyed the Future State issue. Andy is a bratty little kid which is expected. I liked that Jackson’s power up came in the form of realizing his guilt had been holding him back. The Confluence is an awesome idea, really is going to suck if we don’t get an Aquaman book to explore it.

  15. #60
    Uncanny King-Kamalu lemonpeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    I enjoyed the Future State issue. Andy is a bratty little kid which is expected. I liked that Jackson’s power up came in the form of realizing his guilt had been holding him back. The Confluence is an awesome idea, really is going to suck if we don’t get an Aquaman book to explore it.
    iunno if they'll explore the Confluence or not but there will be a new Aquaman book sooner rather than later considering he has an animated series and a movie on the way. I just hope they don't pouch it from Jackson entirely and keep it exclusively tied to Arthur, i'd want to see this be a niche for Jackson that they could explore together; build that partnership as well as his character.
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