If Nick Spencer's run is acknowleding Sin's Past, why not just retcon it

[Vortex85]

I hope you are right but I do not see it. My prediction is OMD is not going away until Amazing 1000 at the earliest. Why? Marvel loves it. How can I be so sure? If not why have Miles and Otto make similar deals?

I don't think there could be any plans for OMD to be addressed that far off. Spencer couldn't have planned to be on the title for 8 years which is how long it would need to last to get to 1000 at it's current rate. That's too long. 7 years max and I think 4-5 years max would likely be pitched so at this point I think issue 1000 is most likely outside the planned scope of Spencer's run. That means that issue 1000 is likely far from being determined and may be a factor in whoever the next writer is. Issue 900 is certainly within the scope of the run's plans though because it will fall into a 4 year pitch.

Further, the only reason OMD is being addressed in this run is because Spencer wanted to and Marvel allowed it. Marvel aren't going to dictate what a writer's run is going to be about. The writer pitches a run to get the job and Marvel approves or not. Spencer obviously pitched a run Marvel liked to get him the job. I don't think Marvel editorial have their hands on the direction the character goes as much as the writer but they will approve and allow the writer to work within certain rules and parameters.

[NC_Yankee]

I don't think there could be any plans for OMD to be addressed that far off. Spencer couldn't have planned to be on the title for 8 years which is how long it would need to last to get to 1000 at it's current rate. That's too long. 7 years max and I think 4-5 years max would likely be pitched so at this point I think issue 1000 is most likely outside the planned scope of Spencer's run. That means that issue 1000 is likely far from being determined and may be a factor in whoever the next writer is. Issue 900 is certainly within the scope of the run's plans though because it will fall into a 4 year pitch.

Further, the only reason OMD is being addressed in this run is because Spencer wanted to and Marvel allowed it. Marvel aren't going to dictate what a writer's run is going to be about. The writer pitches a run to get the job and Marvel approves or not. Spencer obviously pitched a run Marvel liked to get him the job. I don't think Marvel editorial have their hands on the direction the character goes as much as the writer but they will approve and allow the writer to work within certain rules and parameters.

I hate being pessimistic, but Once again I just do not see it. Marvel loves this story, and in particular Peter losing (even though most readers hate it). I mentioned Amazing 1000, because they need a big story for that issue ( getting rid of OMD for that issue is obviously pure conjecture on my part, but it makes sense saving the end of OMD for that issue). One more point: If you look at post OMD stories, it is usually about Peter losing; Obviously Superior, and the killing by Harry, but even Life Story and and Abrams. Actually the closest to a happy ending for Peter was done by of all people Slott in Renew Your Vows.

[your_name_here]

I don't think anyone expects a retcon of OMD. I do expect it will play a critical role in the climax of Spencers run the way he is building things and I do believe Peter will be forced to confess and acknowledge what he has done. I feel like Spencer is going to use this to bring a cathartic end to the retcon and make EVERYTHING COUNT again in Spider-Man lore again. I feel like he is the kind of fan who doesn't want ANYTHING swept under the rug, and he can finally shine the spotlight he elephant in the room that fans have been complaining about all these years. Hopefully he is allowed to make something good come out of it for both Peter and MJ and they can both move forward together with all the knowledge and memories of their marriage intact.

At the end of the day, we still live in a world where I don't think Marvel is ready for Peter and MJ to marry again, but if they are willing to acknowledge the marriage in canon, that takes away the sting of OMD, and it also removes some of the arguements for why Peter can't be married in the first place since you can't use the excuse that he is too young to be married anymore.

This.

I’ve got a lot of faith in Spencer, even if LR hasn’t been what we all originally thought. I think he intends to streamline everything again. There’ll be no pre-OMD or after-OMD, it’ll be out in the open and acknowledged in a way Peter can own up to what he did and move on from it.

That won’t bring back the marriage and undo OMD, just no longer have it as the elephant in the room.

[Vortex85]

I hate being pessimistic, but Once again I just do not see it. Marvel loves this story, and in particular Peter losing (even though most readers hate it). I mentioned Amazing 1000, because they need a big story for that issue ( getting rid of OMD for that issue is obviously pure conjecture on my part, but it makes sense saving the end of OMD for that issue). One more point: If you look at post OMD stories, it is usually about Peter losing; Obviously Superior, and the killing by Harry, but even Life Story and and Abrams. Actually the closest to a happy ending for Peter was done by of all people Slott in Renew Your Vows.

Historically, big stories don't necessarily happen on Annual issues. #121 was death of Gwen, Annual #21 was the marraige, ASM #545 was OMD. Looking at recent runs the 1000 #s usually play it safe and are used for multiple stories by multiple creators. I think it's safe to say they aren't going to be doing something "risky" like undoing OMD or marrying Peter in MJ in a #1000 issue.

If you look pre-OMD issues, it was about Peter losing too a lot, lol. I mean, there is no happily ever after for Peter, whether he is in a relationship/married to MJ or not. They still face hardships, he still loses battles, he still has devastating setbacks in his life. If everything was happy and positive it would be safe and boring. Is it a victory to be married to MJ? Sure, in one way it is for fans of their marriage, but I honestly don't think that means stories can't have Peter lose, or suffer loss, or have adversity. It never happened like that what he was married. If anything it just seemed even like more was at stake because he had more to lose. It raised the stakes and I think that's why him being with the woman he loves works better than him being single or not getting the girl. He has less to lose if that's the case. What are the stakes other than himself?

[Vortex85]

One thing to add to that, if OMD ever succeeding in anything it sure showed us that Peter's marriage is fragile, and can be taken away in a moment and for a long freaking time at that. Maybe your whole life.

So if they ever did decide to marry Peter and MJ again, NO ONE WILL FEEL SAFE. Not for a LONG time, not ever. Can you imagine the constant anxiety of fans just waiting for Marvel to pull the rug out from under them again like they did in OMD?

First of all, people would probably spend the first few years feeling it was a fake out and one issue Peter is going to wake up and it's going to be a dream or a trick. Then when people finally accept it's real, they are going to be constantly on the edge that Marvel is going to try to get rid of it again, whether it be Mephisto's revenge, a divorce, or something stupid like killings off MJ again. Fans are always going to be speculating about worse case scenarios. So we can hope for the marriage, we can celebrate if it happens again, but pessimism and lack of trust are always going to be there and will always sour the victory if there ever is one.

[NC_Yankee]

Historically, big stories don't necessarily happen on Annual issues. #121 was death of Gwen, Annual #21 was the marraige, ASM #545 was OMD. Looking at recent runs the 1000 #s usually play it safe and are used for multiple stories by multiple creators. I think it's safe to say they aren't going to be doing something "risky" like undoing OMD or marrying Peter in MJ in a #1000 issue.

If you look pre-OMD issues, it was about Peter losing too a lot, lol. I mean, there is no happily ever after for Peter, whether he is in a relationship/married to MJ or not. They still face hardships, he still loses battles, he still has devastating setbacks in his life. If everything was happy and positive it would be safe and boring. Is it a victory to be married to MJ? Sure, in one way it is for fans of their marriage, but I honestly don't think that means stories can't have Peter lose, or suffer loss, or have adversity. It never happened like that what he was married. If anything it just seemed even like more was at stake because he had more to lose. It raised the stakes and I think that's why him being with the woman he loves works better than him being single or not getting the girl. He has less to lose if that's the case. What are the stakes other than himself?

No one expects Peter to win every battle ( right from the beginning you have the death of Uncle Ben). But in the past you had victories: The Final Chapter ( ASM 33), Juggernaut, Kraven’s Last Hunt, Spider Island and of course the marriage just to name a few. But it seems like over the past decade the losses are a lot more then the victories. As far as an anniversary issue, no Marvel comic has made it to 1000, so I am sure that Marvel wants to do avoid a meh issue. That is why I suspect something big. It could be the ending of OMD, it could involve a Chapter One style rebooting everything back to Amazing Fantasy 15 ( including Uncle Ben living), marrying MJ and Peter retiring and Miles taking over, or something unexpected. But I would be shocked if it is not something that will be talked about for many years.

[Vortex85]

No one expects Peter to win every battle ( right from the beginning you have the death of Uncle Ben). But in the past you had victories: The Final Chapter ( ASM 33), Juggernaut, Kraven’s Last Hunt, Spider Island and of course the marriage just to name a few. But it seems like over the past decade the losses are a lot more then the victories. As far as an anniversary issue, no Marvel comic has made it to 1000, so I am sure that Marvel wants to do avoid a meh issue. That is why I suspect something big. It could be the ending of OMD, it could involve a Chapter One style rebooting everything back to Amazing Fantasy 15 ( including Uncle Ben living), marrying MJ and Peter retiring and Miles taking over, or something unexpected. But I would be shocked if it is not something that will be talked about for many years.

Well, we had Marvel comics 1000, Action comics 1000, and Detective comics 1000 to go on recently the last few years. All were all-star creator / anthology type issues. That way many creators get to have a story or contribution in a once in a lifetime chance at a 1000th issue. I would expect the same for Spidey. Expect multiple creators, short stories, and a happy / safe Spider-Man celebration if those were anything to go on.

[your_name_here]

Yeah, if I was Marvel and we were about to hit 1000, I’d rather it be a celebration of the character - not a big story addressing the most controversial and possibly worst part of the whole Spider-story so far.

[NC_Yankee]

Well, we had Marvel comics 1000, Action comics 1000, and Detective comics 1000 to go on recently the last few years. All were all-star creator / anthology type issues. That way many creators get to have a story or contribution in a once in a lifetime chance at a 1000th issue. I would expect the same for Spidey. Expect multiple creators, short stories, and a happy / safe Spider-Man celebration if those were anything to go on.

That is certainly a possibility. But I wonder if playing it safe and following DC is the way to go ( especially if OMD remains which I am predicting). I am sure what to do about Amazing 1000 will get a lot of discussion in the Marvel Office going forward.

[Vortex85]

That is certainly a possibility. But I wonder if playing it safe and following DC is the way to go ( especially if OMD remains which I am predicting). I am sure what to do about Amazing 1000 will get a lot of discussion in the Marvel Office going forward.

Well, we'll get there eventually. Personally, I'm much more interested to see what we've got coming up in #75 and #100 / ASM#900 (hopefully?) of Spencer's run -- I do hope we get this far with him on the book.

[your_name_here]

Well, we'll get there eventually. Personally, I'm much more interested to see what we've got coming up in #75 and #100 / ASM#900 (hopefully?) of Spencer's run -- I do hope we get this far with him on the book.

I’d be surprised if we don’t. There’s lots to unpack still with Spencer’s story, I think. I think he’s definitely got enough to take him to #100

[NC_Yankee]

Well, we'll get there eventually. Personally, I'm much more interested to see what we've got coming up in #75 and #100 / ASM#900 (hopefully?) of Spencer's run -- I do hope we get this far with him on the book.

I would bet on Otto and Mysterio returning soon enough. Other possibilities include. Shocker, Electro ( Dillion), Smythe and Sandman. I would like Kingsley but after so much Osborn I doubt it

[PCN24454]

No one expects Peter to win every battle ( right from the beginning you have the death of Uncle Ben). But in the past you had victories: The Final Chapter ( ASM 33), Juggernaut, Kraven’s Last Hunt, Spider Island and of course the marriage just to name a few. But it seems like over the past decade the losses are a lot more then the victories. As far as an anniversary issue, no Marvel comic has made it to 1000, so I am sure that Marvel wants to do avoid a meh issue. That is why I suspect something big. It could be the ending of OMD, it could involve a Chapter One style rebooting everything back to Amazing Fantasy 15 ( including Uncle Ben living), marrying MJ and Peter retiring and Miles taking over, or something unexpected. But I would be shocked if it is not something that will be talked about for many years.

Those battles honestly feel like blips on a radar, and even then, it mostly featured Peter getting the crap kicked out of him, only to get lucky.

[Mister Mets]

Retconning Sins Past would take an entire arc, to explain why there was an elaborate plan to convince Peter that Gwen Stacy had two children with Norman Osborn. That would distract from Spencer's other stories.

That would be to main reason to not retcon it. it's a lot of work, involving some major characters.

I don't think there could be any plans for OMD to be addressed that far off. Spencer couldn't have planned to be on the title for 8 years which is how long it would need to last to get to 1000 at it's current rate. That's too long. 7 years max and I think 4-5 years max would likely be pitched so at this point I think issue 1000 is most likely outside the planned scope of Spencer's run. That means that issue 1000 is likely far from being determined and may be a factor in whoever the next writer is. Issue 900 is certainly within the scope of the run's plans though because it will fall into a 4 year pitch.

Further, the only reason OMD is being addressed in this run is because Spencer wanted to and Marvel allowed it. Marvel aren't going to dictate what a writer's run is going to be about. The writer pitches a run to get the job and Marvel approves or not. Spencer obviously pitched a run Marvel liked to get him the job. I don't think Marvel editorial have their hands on the direction the character goes as much as the writer but they will approve and allow the writer to work within certain rules and parameters.

At this point, the story may be running past the initial pitch. He did say in an interview that he didn't know he could reunite Peter & MJ until relatively late in the planning process, so after two years, there are stories he might tell that aren't part of his early plan. If he doesn't like One More Day and has a chance to retcon it, he'd probably take it, even if he didn't think he could.

But it could also be that his current references are as far as it goes.

[Vortex85]

Retconning Sins Past would take an entire arc, to explain why there was an elaborate plan to convince Peter that Gwen Stacy had two children with Norman Osborn. That would distract from Spencer's other stories.

That would be to main reason to not retcon it. it's a lot of work, involving some major characters.



At this point, the story may be running past the initial pitch. He did say in an interview that he didn't know he could reunite Peter & MJ until relatively late in the planning process, so after two years, there are stories he might tell that aren't part of his early plan. If he doesn't like One More Day and has a chance to retcon it, he'd probably take it, even if he didn't think he could.

But it could also be that his current references are as far as it goes.

I saw an interview where he knows what this is all building to from the beginning, saying it would be one of the biggest Spider-Man stories of all time. He said the first issue of his is the ground floor for that. He also said this is planned out 10x structurally for the Cap run so that is at least 100 issues preplanned if we take it literally. He also said that when he was pitching he was explaining what would happen in year 2, year 3, etc. So I know for sure he planned at least the first 3 years and knows the end goal.