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  1. #91
    Incredible Member sbo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChronoRogue View Post
    Oh adversaries for Rogue is a good topic. She hasn't had many... or at least where it's more personal.


    BLINDSPOT


    The least "villainous" of the three but still choatic. She caused Rogue to perma-absorb Sunfire and has a habit of making everyone around her forget her. I think Blindspot has potential as a villain for Rogue that she has to fight strategically against, in a non-physical way, sort of like how Luthor is to Superman most of the time. Someone who will manipulate things behind the scenes instead of directly confronting Rogue herself. They could also expand on her powers to be more adversarial but her base powers can cause problems if Blindspot does it on select people or on a wide-enough scale. Imagine Blindspot resetting villains to their past selves to cause havoc on Krakoa? Or Blindspot making Gambit forget about Rogue? Her powers have potential for all sorts of interesting situations.

    Also like Vargas, Blindspot seems to have connection to Rogue through Destiny as Destiny warned Rogue to stay away from her. It's also sort of implied she might be attracted and/or obsessed with her? Either way, more drama for Rogue if she were to ever join Rogue's personal rogue's gallery.

    Other notable villains

    The Children of the Vault are both an impersonal and personal villain(s) for Rogue. Rogue is the X-women they've had the most contact with so far and both times they miserably failed trying to fight her. I'm sure their pride is hurt but it seems like Hickman is co-opting them into a more general X-villain threat.

    Mystique sometimes mother dearest and sometimes the biggest pain in Rogue's behind. Raven has a habit of getting nosey and very personally involved in Rogue's private affairs. Shooting, stabbing, and trying to steal her man; there is no bar Mystique will not go under if she thinks its for Rogue's own good. In the grand of scheme of things, Mystique is a more general villain and more recently ally than not though. Rogue and Mystique have made their peace... for the moment.

    Belladonna as a personal Rogue villain is a bit of a stretch, as she is more connected to Gambit than Rogue but there is nothing like an ex-wife scorned. It also was not too long ago she was shooting Rogue in the back, so one never knows with her. I think Bella Donna works better as a reluctant ally or supporting cast than as a villain for Rogue though I could see her going against Mrs Lebeau if they ever go against the Assassins Guild business.

    Those are the only memorable one's off the top of my head. For all that she's been in publication for 40 years, Rogue hasn't made a ton of personal enemies in her time. As bad as it sounds, I'd actually like that to change lol. It's more interesting for Rogue to have villains who have a connection with her.


    There should be plenty of villains coming to give Rogue some payback after all of the folks she's absorbed over the years.


    I'd like to see Knockout show up as an enemy, she stated that she wanted to fight Rogue again, and it seemed as though she had some level of resistance to Rogue's powers for some reason.





    Punchout never did get her chance to fight Rogue again either, although she clearly wanted to do her some harm for swiping her powers.
    Before could get started with that, Rogue got whisked off to their prison where she quickly made some more enemies when she absorbed her captors (who were also denied any retribution).


  2. #92
    Mighty Member seccruz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbo View Post
    There should be plenty of villains coming to give Rogue some payback after all of the folks she's absorbed over the years.


    I'd like to see Knockout show up as an enemy, she stated that she wanted to fight Rogue again, and it seemed as though she had some level of resistance to Rogue's powers for some reason.





    Punchout never did get her chance to fight Rogue again either, although she clearly wanted to do her some harm for swiping her powers.
    Before could get started with that, Rogue got whisked off to their prison where she quickly made some more enemies when she absorbed her captors (who were also denied any retribution).

    I would love for Viper's team to return. Even Saphire. She could be a good villain for Rogue.
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  3. #93
    Astonishing Member ChronoRogue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calintz View Post
    Yes I love all those. Don't forget about Astra and the good ol' creepy High evolutonary scientist. I'm sure that guy ain't done with studying Rogue, let alone what Astra has planned. If written well Rogue could have her own solo. Just keep Carol away from it.
    The one that enslaved Joseph? I think she has potential but would she has a reason to personally go after Rogue?

    True, High Evolutionary did seem interested in Rogue. I could buy him wanting to experiment on her, considering he has a history of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by sbo
    There should be plenty of villains coming to give Rogue some payback after all of the folks she's absorbed over the years.

    I'd like to see Knockout show up as an enemy, she stated that she wanted to fight Rogue again, and it seemed as though she had some level of resistance to Rogue's powers for some reason.

    Punchout never did get her chance to fight Rogue again either, although she clearly wanted to do her some harm for swiping her powers.
    Before could get started with that, Rogue got whisked off to their prison where she quickly made some more enemies when she absorbed her captors (who were also denied any retribution).
    Rogue vs Punchout round 2 would be great.

    That said, I think for a villain to be engaging they need a strong design and personal motivations as well as a strong connection to the hero. Lots of the stronger Batman and Spider-Man villains have staying power due to having a strong thematic. If a villain did something as significant as what Rogue did to Carol, you got the recipe for engaging drama. That's kind of why I was looking for villains who had a very personal interest in her.

    For example, one I could see that would be interesting but that has never been brought up in the comic would be a loved one of someone Rogue's hurt during her villain days coming back up to haunt her now that she's calling herself a hero. Maybe a relative of Cody's would be a good candidate; considering the poor boy spent years in a coma and then died as soon as he was out of it.

    There's probably loads of people she made enemies of back in the day and I'm surprised we only have learned about Blindspot (and she doesn't really hate Rogue, she's just obsessed...).

  4. #94
    Astonishing Member Calintz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChronoRogue View Post
    The one that enslaved Joseph? I think she has potential but would she has a reason to personally go after Rogue?

    True, High Evolutionary did seem interested in Rogue. I could buy him wanting to experiment on her, considering he has a history of it.



    Rogue vs Punchout round 2 would be great.

    That said, I think for a villain to be engaging they need a strong design and personal motivations as well as a strong connection to the hero. Lots of the stronger Batman and Spider-Man villains have staying power due to having a strong thematic. If a villain did something as significant as what Rogue did to Carol, you got the recipe for engaging drama. That's kind of why I was looking for villains who had a very personal interest in her.

    For example, one I could see that would be interesting but that has never been brought up in the comic would be a loved one of someone Rogue's hurt during her villain days coming back up to haunt her now that she's calling herself a hero. Maybe a relative of Cody's would be a good candidate; considering the poor boy spent years in a coma and then died as soon as he was out of it.

    There's probably loads of people she made enemies of back in the day and I'm surprised we only have learned about Blindspot (and she doesn't really hate Rogue, she's just obsessed...).
    I think with Astra its more curiosity and annoyance. I remember her stating that she wanted to know why Joseph and Magneto were so drawn to Rogue and how that ruin her plans for revenge against Magneto. (Something along those lines, I have to reread it. Its been awhile )

    I'm sure the High Evolutionary's Scientist took some liberties with Rogue when he had her sedated and locked in his lab. I know he did more than what they gave us in UA.

    Heeeeyyy Chrono you know Rogue wasn't a villian when she and Cody kissed. If anything Bella Donna and Candra are the reason he died. He was peacefully in a coma until they hijacked him to get at Rogue. Dangling him around like a puppet with his strings cut. Honestly I don't why they just didn't have Josh Foley heal him or one of their powerful telepaths to help fix that young man's situation is beyond me.

    Also has everyone forgot that Rogue is way stronger than she was in the past? I mean she has wonderman's powers now

  5. #95
    Astonishing Member ChronoRogue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calintz View Post
    I think with Astra its more curiosity and annoyance. I remember her stating that she wanted to know why Joseph and Magneto were so drawn to Rogue and how that ruin her plans for revenge against Magneto. (Something along those lines, I have to reread it. Its been awhile )

    I'm sure the High Evolutionary's Scientist took some liberties with Rogue when he had her sedated and locked in his lab. I know he did more than what they gave us in UA.

    Heeeeyyy Chrono you know Rogue wasn't a villian when she and Cody kissed. If anything Bella Donna and Candra are the reason he died. He was peacefully in a coma until they hijacked him to get at Rogue. Dangling him around like a puppet with his strings cut. Honestly I don't why they just didn't have Josh Foley heal him or one of their powerful telepaths to help fix that young man's situation is beyond me.

    Also has everyone forgot that Rogue is way stronger than she was in the past? I mean she has wonderman's powers now
    Hmm I suppose Astra could get into a catfight with Rogue over not getting attention. Wouldn't be the first woman who fought Rogue for that reason. *cough* Bella Donna *cough*

    Oh no, I wasn't implying what happened with Rogue and Cody when she was young was something intentionally malicious or villainous. The way it's usually portrayed, it was an innocent kiss and was deeply traumatic for her. I just meant that Cody's family and relatives probably wouldn't see it that way. Whatever guilt Rogue felt, they still lost a family member. People have hated mutants for less, so I could easily see someone looking for revenge. But that's just a hypothetical situation that a writer could play with. But yes, Candra and Bella Donna did not help the situation either.

    Also while that incident was not her fault, there was plenty of stuff she did as a teenage villain that does hold some responsibility for, Mystique brainwashing her or not (ie absorbing Carol). Like harassing Dazzler and fighting other heroes. I just see some potential stories there, for more things outside of the Carol incident to come back and haunt her. Could be entertaining for a solo book.

    As for Josh helping, I'm not sure his powers had activated yet. He might have been too young. And for the telepaths, that is a good question. I'm not sure, though, if they can do anything for someone in a coma like that.

    No I know how strong she is now. also i wrote class 100 in the original post in this thread xd But there are still villains who would likely give her trouble. The High Evolutionary fought her with the WM powers and didn't even flinch. then again RR liked to downplay Rogue a lot Same for Ultron, Nuclear Man, Juggernaut and a few others since then.


    I do wish they'd emphasized the power boost more though. I feel like she just gets written as if she has her old power-set, when that's not really true. rip no red eyes or purple dots for Rogue lol
    Last edited by ChronoRogue; 01-19-2021 at 08:04 AM.

  6. #96
    Incredible Member sbo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChronoRogue View Post
    Hmm I suppose Astra could get into a catfight with Rogue over not getting attention. Wouldn't be the first woman who fought Rogue for that reason. *cough* Bella Donna *cough*

    Oh no, I wasn't implying what happened with Rogue and Cody when she was young was something intentionally malicious or villainous. The way it's usually portrayed, it was an innocent kiss and was deeply traumatic for her. I just meant that Cody's family and relatives probably wouldn't see it that way. Whatever guilt Rogue felt, they still lost a family member. People have hated mutants for less, so I could easily see someone looking for revenge. But that's just a hypothetical situation that a writer could play with. But yes, Candra and Bella Donna did not help the situation either.

    Also while that incident was not her fault, there was plenty of stuff she did as a teenage villain that does hold some responsibility for, Mystique brainwashing her or not (ie absorbing Carol). Like harassing Dazzler and fighting other heroes. I just see some potential stories there, for more things outside of the Carol incident to come back and haunt her. Could be entertaining for a solo book.

    As for Josh helping, I'm not sure his powers had activated yet. He might have been too young. And for the telepaths, that is a good question. I'm not sure, though, if they can do anything for someone in a coma like that.

    No I know how strong she is now. also i wrote class 100 in the original post in this thread xd But there are still villains who would likely give her trouble. The High Evolutionary fought her with the WM powers and didn't even flinch. then again RR liked to downplay Rogue a lot Same for Ultron, Nuclear Man, Juggernaut and a few others since then.


    I do wish they'd emphasized the power boost more though. I feel like she just gets written as if she has her old power-set, when that's not really true. rip no red eyes or purple dots for Rogue lol

    I don't need to see the red eyes or anything, but I do like it when they remember how strong Rogue is now.
    It seems like only some writers take note of the upgrade, she's punching monsters like Juggernaut and Hulk across town, but then she gets every square inch of her ass kicked by the likes of Knockout.

    I really like the idea of someone from Cody's family coming after Rogue.
    I don't know how they would do anything to hurt her unless they get into some unholy alliance to gain some powers on their own, or pay some supervillains to go after her, is there a super villain version of Heroes for Hire?

  7. #97
    Astonishing Member ChronoRogue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbo View Post
    I don't need to see the red eyes or anything, but I do like it when they remember how strong Rogue is now.
    It seems like only some writers take note of the upgrade, she's punching monsters like Juggernaut and Hulk across town, but then she gets every square inch of her ass kicked by the likes of Knockout.

    I really like the idea of someone from Cody's family coming after Rogue.
    I don't know how they would do anything to hurt her unless they get into some unholy alliance to gain some powers on their own, or pay some supervillains to go after her, is there a super villain version of Heroes for Hire?
    I'm not sure Simon's energy signature really fits Rogue's aesthetic, green and purple kinda clash so that's probably why we only rarely saw it, but it's a very visual way of reminding the reader and other authors that her powers are slightly different.

    Duggan was usually pretty good about it. He really wrote her as a physical threat in UA. KT did well too, that scene of her knocking down Super Guardian is iconic. To be fair to Tini, she did have Rogue rush Apocalypse and he should also be really strong physically. Too bad that's the last interesting thing Rogue did in that book.

    Right? It would be dramatic and I feel like it's rare for heroes to get called out for indirectly hurting civilians. As for hurting Rogue, they could take the route of hiring a villain or use tech like most other human antagonists in the X-Men. If said hypothetical family member were really desperate, maybe even turn themselves into something like a Prime or Omega Sentinel ala Karima? I'm surprised we haven't seen many after OZT.

  8. #98
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Besides having greater control of her absorbing abilities what exactly are Rogue's power stats, now? Does she still have Wonder Man's strength powers?
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  9. #99
    Astonishing Member ChronoRogue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    Besides having greater control of her absorbing abilities what exactly are Rogue's power stats, now? Does she still have Wonder Man's strength powers?
    Yea she's got Wonder Man's powerset still. As far as I can tell, she's kept most if not all of Simon's strength. That would put her around Hercules or Jane Foster's Thor strength-level (who she was compared to a lot during No Surrender) and in the upper echelon of physical strength of mutants on Krakoa.

    Durability wise is bit more ambiguous, but probably around her old levels at least if not more durable. Same for her speed.

  10. #100
    Mighty Member seccruz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChronoRogue View Post
    Yea she's got Wonder Man's powerset still. As far as I can tell, she's kept most if not all of Simon's strength. That would put her around Hercules or Jane Foster's Thor strength-level (who she was compared to a lot during No Surrender) and in the upper echelon of physical strength of mutants on Krakoa.

    Durability wise is bit more ambiguous, but probably around her old levels at least if not more durable. Same for her speed.
    That puts her on Odinson's and Hulk's power level, actually. 100 tons opposed to Danvers' 50.
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  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChronoRogue View Post
    Yea she's got Wonder Man's powerset still. As far as I can tell, she's kept most if not all of Simon's strength. That would put her around Hercules or Jane Foster's Thor strength-level (who she was compared to a lot during No Surrender) and in the upper echelon of physical strength of mutants on Krakoa.

    Durability wise is bit more ambiguous, but probably around her old levels at least if not more durable. Same for her speed.
    Ahh! Thank you.
    Good to know. I hope we get to see more of those attributes going forward.
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  12. #102
    Astonishing Member ChronoRogue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seccruz View Post
    That puts her on Odinson's and Hulk's power level, actually. 100 tons opposed to Danvers' 50.
    I think are big gaps among the Class 100 crowd. Marvel just basically stops counting after it but Wonder Man isn't as strong as, say, Hulk usually even if both are Class 100.

    Rogue might be as strong as regular Thor but I'm unsure on current one. Hulk can be extremely variable but even at baseline I'd put him in a class stronger than Rogue since she wasn't able to overpower Juggernaut in UA (in pure strength).

    Speaking of strength levels, decided to make a rough list on the strongest (physically) mutants on Krakoa/Arrako. I'm not really sure on everyone place, because each character has very bad or good out there showings at times, but on a consistent level they probably are around there?

    Class 100+
    Apocalypse
    Rogue
    Colossus
    Sunspot (M-Pox Levels?)
    Gentle

    Class 50 to 90
    Blob
    Armor
    Warpath
    Strong Guy (Baseline)
    Rockslide
    Frenzy
    Sunspot (Baseline)

    Class 10 to 40
    Moonstar (Valkyrie Form)
    Monet
    Selene
    Beast

    Class 10 and Under
    Emma
    Toad
    Sabretooth
    Wolverine
    Wolsfbane
    Anole

    Namor is probably in Class 100. Molly Hayes is also there or the second highest class.

  13. #103
    BANNED Sylarmax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChronoRogue View Post
    Hmm I suppose Astra could get into a catfight with Rogue over not getting attention. Wouldn't be the first woman who fought Rogue for that reason. *cough* Bella Donna *cough*

    Oh no, I wasn't implying what happened with Rogue and Cody when she was young was something intentionally malicious or villainous. The way it's usually portrayed, it was an innocent kiss and was deeply traumatic for her. I just meant that Cody's family and relatives probably wouldn't see it that way. Whatever guilt Rogue felt, they still lost a family member. People have hated mutants for less, so I could easily see someone looking for revenge. But that's just a hypothetical situation that a writer could play with. But yes, Candra and Bella Donna did not help the situation either.

    Also while that incident was not her fault, there was plenty of stuff she did as a teenage villain that does hold some responsibility for, Mystique brainwashing her or not (ie absorbing Carol). Like harassing Dazzler and fighting other heroes. I just see some potential stories there, for more things outside of the Carol incident to come back and haunt her. Could be entertaining for a solo book.

    As for Josh helping, I'm not sure his powers had activated yet. He might have been too young. And for the telepaths, that is a good question. I'm not sure, though, if they can do anything for someone in a coma like that.

    No I know how strong she is now. also i wrote class 100 in the original post in this thread xd But there are still villains who would likely give her trouble. The High Evolutionary fought her with the WM powers and didn't even flinch. then again RR liked to downplay Rogue a lot Same for Ultron, Nuclear Man, Juggernaut and a few others since then.


    I do wish they'd emphasized the power boost more though. I feel like she just gets written as if she has her old power-set, when that's not really true. rip no red eyes or purple dots for Rogue lol
    With nuclear man a rogue she did quite well alone.
    When she broke free from mind control and she didn't use her absorption.


    With jugg she was excellent.
    Rogue saved wanda and then they looked evenly matched in strength and then seeing that she couldn't get over it she stopped pushing and threw him towards doc vudoo.
    With the hulk still weak, she was beating the hulk making him fly all over the city.


    And with these she did not use absorption.


    Carol is on par with Thor currently .. And in her fight with Rogue all the time she was Rogue's pet.
    And from what we saw to a certain extent rogue was holding back despite the nm control.


    She with graviton she left him in an easy coma.
    And she endured his power through super strength and invulnerability.
    Graviton is sooo much more than ultron hulk or jugg.


    And let's not forget that she beat up apovalypse and was able to kill him within seconds.
    Apocalyose that neither iceman nor storm nor Xavier or jean have been able to tickle him.
    In 616 only Rogue had the power to kill him so easily.



    In addition Rogue again has control of the powers of absorption of her.
    Thanks to legacy we know what that means.
    That when she is in control she is much more powerful.
    And she's just scratching the surface of what she can do in control.
    I would like to explore that more.
    As well as her new set of ranged absorption power or possible wm powers that she has yet to explore.
    But the truth is that very few characters could measure up to Rogue today if she is really fighting seriously without holding back.


    ________-_-_____


    Colossus has never looked like a Class 100 to me. Not even now. At most he is in an 80 class.


    Colossus was sad with the current version of jugg and juggernaut is at his most powerful version of all.
    Rogue looked great crashing him into a car saving Wanda's life. and then looking very even in the duel of strength. And she beat him without using rogue absorption. She got rid of it just like she hulk with jugg in the wwhulk.

    Rogue looked equal to or even stronger than Carol and she is evenly matched with Thor.

    Colossus is very lucky in class 80 ... but with very bad resistance 'very lada really always break his ribs or end up with bent arms lol.
    Last edited by Sylarmax; 01-20-2021 at 05:52 AM.

  14. #104
    BANNED Sylarmax's Avatar
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    Is there any coherent reason why Mr. Hickman still doesn't consider omega-level Rogue once and for all?


    I say just added to the omega list to his hideous mutant arakko creations that neither seem like a big deal really.


    But with what Rogue demonstrated vs the celestial in Uncanny Avengers is already more of an omega feat than any of the official list have done.


    And she has even greater accomplishments like absorbing 8 billion alien life.
    And potentially we saw what her power will grow into thanks to xtreme xmen .. So this doesn't make sense to me.


    This guy just hates rogue so much so that not even taking the mike carey stories from the cotv that are linked with Rogue. He did not take it into account.


    I hope this guy leaves soon the stories of him with the mutants are horrible the truth.

  15. #105
    Astonishing Member ChronoRogue's Avatar
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    I'm not too familiar with Carol's current stories. The CM one featuring Rogue is the only one I've kept up with and I agree that it looked like Rogue was physically stronger than her.

    As for Colossus, I think he's built up as the X-Men "strong guy" but he rarely gets to show off. I feel like during the 70s and 80s he was treated with much more respect but ever since the 90s and 00s he's just kinda... fallen on the wayside.

    Outside of his early fights with Juggernaut and Gladiator, I can't remember any stand-out feats of strength from him. And like Thor, he typically gets used a lot to show how strong an antagonist is. Like that somewhat embarrassing fight against WWH where the Hulk just mangled his arms. Though he has had some impressive feats with bringing down large monsters and robots.




    So I would still include him in Class 100 IMO.

    Regarding Hickman not listing Rogue as an Omega. I feel like he only wanted a very limited number of characters to be labeled as Omega and as far as power mimicry, Hope had already been given that title. He seemed to make an allowance for Quintin and Jean sharing the Omega TP slot, but that seems as far as he was willing to go. I also don't think Omega necessarily means current power, as someone like Elixir is an omega but he could probably get killed by a number of characters. It just means in their respective powerset, they basically have infinite potential to grow and surpass anything humans could do with technology replicate that power.

    though given Moondragon is human and has showed greater TP feats than Jean...

    But yes, it doesn't seem like he's much of a fan of the character given that's he's been pulling Legecy era plot-threads like the Children of the Vault but ignores Rogue's connection to them.

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