Rogue Appreciation 2021

[From The Shadows]

I know, right?! I love those moments

It definitely started off with a bang.

[anyajenkins]

I need a refresher on Nicieza's run but I don't remember her being written that offensively. Not good, certainly, but not as a frustrating as some other writers. But again, might need a refresher.

https://tiermaker.com/create/best-rogue-writers-898117


Made some changes to the tier list; added some more writers and tiers on there. Though I created a duplicate for Jim Zub that I don't know how to remove.



At the top of decent, if he had more issues under his belt he might've gotten rated higher. His action was great but I was a bit confused on why he was writing Rogue so insecure when she'd been leading the Unity team for nearly 20 issues by that point.

I think Kelly Thompson should be in the ‘great’ level...

[AppleJ]

Ouch. I liked Fabian's Rogue just fine. I would say he was at least decent. Lobdell was also decent. Remender could easily join Milligan at the bottom though.

[DarkMagnus]

I think Kelly Thompson should be in the ‘great’ level...

For me Carey, Duggan need the Definitive class too.

Thompson and Zub to Great

Tini and Rick to Terrible.

I hate austen Rogue but love the use of her powers and look.

Remender wasted Cassaday and Copiel in so many issues that should be ilegal.

Tini created a Roguebot in any moment she ask Betsy for marriage. I can Buy Rogue being a overprotective friend. BUT in Bobby, Ororo, Sam, Deadpool, Logan, Human Torch heck she even developed a friendship with Wasp

WITH FREAKING WASP. But for Betsy there only Xtreme Xmen. Rogue reaction at Vargas will be the same after every teammate death. Thanks god it wasnt Beast or Logan.

[Calintz]

For me Carey, Duggan need the Definitive class too.

Thompson and Zub to Great

Tini and Rick to Terrible.

I hate austen Rogue but love the use of her powers and look.

Remender wasted Cassaday and Copiel in so many issues that should be ilegal.

Tini created a Roguebot in any moment she ask Betsy for marriage. I can Buy Rogue being a overprotective friend. BUT in Bobby, Ororo, Sam, Deadpool, Logan, Human Torch heck she even developed a friendship with Wasp

WITH FREAKING WASP. But for Betsy there only Xtreme Xmen. Rogue reaction at Vargas will be the same after every teammate death. Thanks god it wasnt Beast or Logan.

Facts! I wish they would show her friendships more. Also don't forget Northstar as well

[Foon4000]

I need a refresher on Nicieza's run but I don't remember her being written that offensively. Not good, certainly, but not as a frustrating as some other writers. But again, might need a refresher.

https://tiermaker.com/create/best-rogue-writers-898117


Made some changes to the tier list; added some more writers and tiers on there. Though I created a duplicate for Jim Zub that I don't know how to remove.



At the top of decent, if he had more issues under his belt he might've gotten rated higher. His action was great but I was a bit confused on why he was writing Rogue so insecure when she'd been leading the Unity team for nearly 20 issues by that point.

Tony Bedard's run on the last half of her solo series was actually pretty good. The art looked rushed but he added some much needed sapphic eroticism to her backstory. I'd put FabNic and Kelly in the third tier- Kelly didn't get much done before he was ousted from the book, but I think he and Seagle really got what makes Rogue tick. Seagle wrote Rogue in a very bad place, but it really spoke to me as a reader at the time. I'd put him up there in the second tier under Claremont.

[mikeb]

Steve Seagle and Joe Kelly were not "ousted" from their books. They both quit because of an editorial dispute. Seagle and Kelly wanted to write a Jean Grey/Pheonix story. The editors wanted the Magneto War. Guess who won out...

[Grunty]

Steve Seagle and Joe Kelly were not "ousted" from their books. They both quit because of an editorial dispute. Seagle and Kelly wanted to write a Jean Grey/Pheonix story. The editors wanted the Magneto War. Guess who won out...

The late 90's under Bob Harras were notorious for these kind of disputs at the Marvel office. Though reading books like "The History of Marvel Comics" you get a lot of insight into the mad house over the decades. It makes the good stories readers got out of it all the more impressive.

[ChronoRogue]

TierList Take 3.0


Added Davis, Bedard and Lobdell. Also switched around some of the writers.

Just a reminder that this program should allow people to make their own lists but I've never used it so I don't know if the link works or not. Let me know if anyone else is able to make their own list.

https://tiermaker.com/create/best-rogue-writers-898117

Also woah that is a lot of replies. I'm glad this is generating some discussion though. Apologize if I seem to skip over any replies!

For me, Chris Claremont and Mike Carey are the definite Rogue writers. Claremont of course gets top credit for creating her and writing her the longest, but I still hold it against him for heavily mistreating her during the Outback era. Just wrote her as a naive troublemaker and novice (despite being the veteran of the team at that point) to prop up the other women on the team and make them look better, not to mention making her a punching back for all the enemies and teammates. Not to mention putting her in limbo for over a year after the Siege shenanigans.

Carey’s Rogue was phenomenal through and through. The storylines may have been up and down, but the characterization was defining and I felt he heavily respected the character and her history.

Interesting! Carey is definitely one of Rogue's premier X-writers for me. Personally, the only reason I hesitate to put him on the same level is because his run hasn't endured the test of time yet. A lot of the development he wrote with Rogue has been reverted or ignored, unfortunately. Her role/job, her friendships and relationships, etc... so far the most enduring parts of his run have been his world-building ala the Children of the Vault.

also i wish carey was a bit better at writing transitions. it felt like he skipped important scenes or issues that needed to be explored more and thus some things felt rushed ie the rogneto relationship and how she went from being very insecure in milligan's run to how much more somber and introspective she was in legacy

By your smilie not much more.

But in retrospect I think I like those writers as a whole, as in the X-Men themselves together and that may be coloring my feelings more now BUT I do think that they at least got her voice pretty down pat, no doubt. If they expanded more on their individual characters it would have been less... "lackluster. " It's amazing though that anyone would choose Lobedell over Fabien. That's rare and actually quite refreshing. Not because I'm choosing authors but Lobdell rarely gets any credit outside Gen X. Also on making the Remy/Rogue relationship annoying to others, to be fair I on a personal level don't remember any X-relationship not getting depressing and "whiney." The current author of the relationship at least seems to be trying to make it fun.

Yes, I fee like that was a disadvantage a lot of 90s writers have compared to now. They juggled a dozen or so characters in just two books and so a lot of times we wouldn't see characters for a good amount of time, till we eventually cycled back to their story arcs. Rogue in particular took a lengthy break in the middle of the 90s after the climax of Trail of Gambit arc.

For me, I think I liked Lobdell's later work with Rogue. He wrote her as more confident and it's when she started leaning into the leadership role more, which CC naturally picked up.

I think Kelly Thompson should be in the ‘great’ level...

Totally fair.

Personally it's hard for me to put writers on Carey and CC's level not only because they were great writers but because they just had so much time with the character. CC created Rogue while Carey wrote her on and off for 7 years. Almost everyone else on the list had maybe about a volume or three worth of issues to work on the character, including KT.

That said, you can definitely tell when a writer has got a character voice or not by at least an arc or so, if not earlier.

It took me a while to warm up to KT's writing, in part maybe I was afraid she'd fall into the 90s writers trap of wrapping all their development together as a couple but by Mr and Mrs X, she was giving each their own storylines. KT also writes really nice action which I appreciate. But yeah, I enjoy KT's Rogue but I think I need to see more of her writing the character to elevate her in the tier(s). Hopefully she gets another chance later down the line.

Ouch. I liked Fabian's Rogue just fine. I would say he was at least decent. Lobdell was also decent. Remender could easily join Milligan at the bottom though.

Sorry lol.

Maybe lackluster is the wrong description, I don't... dislike Fabians, Lodbells or Kellys run. They definitely had their good moments actually. Lobdell in the later half of the 90s was good and some of Nicieza's Rogue and Gambit scenes were nice even if angsty. And Kelly had this cool moment where he acknowledged that the multiple personalities running around in Rogue's head allowed her to more easily navigate the weirdness of reality warping. It's the little details for me.



That said, it's a very mixed bag for me because I felt Rogue's over all story arc stagnated a lot during the 90s as a character. She was very much stuck in a pattern; like she was having the same conversation with Gambit over and over again and it made the reading experience less entertaining and more frustrating personally.

Tony Bedard's run on the last half of her solo series was actually pretty good. The art looked rushed but he added some much needed sapphic eroticism to her backstory. I'd put FabNic and Kelly in the third tier- Kelly didn't get much done before he was ousted from the book, but I think he and Seagle really got what makes Rogue tick. Seagle wrote Rogue in a very bad place, but it really spoke to me as a reader at the time. I'd put him up there in the second tier under Claremont.

lol I liked the addition of Blindspot too. I liked that he had the character tied her to Rogue's past as a teenage terrorist, lots of writers skip over that part of her history.

Also glad to see someone else appreciated Seagle's darker take on Rogue. That weird dream of Rogue fighting Wolverine and it turning very violent plus the taboo desire to intentionally touch/drain him was very interesting, I wish he'd explored that more.

[DarkMagnus]

Wood Rogue's is missing even he make what he make...

His Rogue was a ok.

You know what can be interesting? a House of M series where Rogue become the Queen of House of M.

Rogue Magnus Queen of Genosha and her Stepsons. also the inevitable birth of Charles Magnus.

[ChronoRogue]

Wood Rogue's is missing even he make what he make...

His Rogue was a ok.

Ok I'll add him to the list in a bit. ;_; lol

[ChronoRogue]

Some Rogue art.


by peter-v-nguyen


by ChaseConley


by Magnafires

Rogue looks so pissed in the 2nd picture which I find very amusing lol.

[sbo]

Some Rogue art.


by peter-v-nguyen


by ChaseConley


by Magnafires

Rogue looks so pissed in the 2nd picture which I find very amusing lol.

Love Rogue's come-hither expression in the first pic.

And I never cared for the outfit in the third pic, but that's still some nice art work.

[sbo]

TierList Take 3.0


Added Davis, Bedard and Lobdell. Also switched around some of the writers.

Just a reminder that this program should allow people to make their own lists but I've never used it so I don't know if the link works or not. Let me know if anyone else is able to make their own list.

https://tiermaker.com/create/best-rogue-writers-898117

that more.

Great list, I'd agree with that for the most part.

Remender I don't know how to feel about, he wrote Rogue terribly, but he did finally bring back here sorely missed super-strength and flight.
I guess since that was more about plot rather than characterization then he probably belongs where you put him.

I know your list is about comic writers , but I feel that the crew responsible for the writing and directing of X-men TAS (Larrry Houston, Eric & Julia Lewald) should get a their props here for their great interpretation of Rogue.
They were the crew responsible for making me a Rogue fan in the first place. Her sassy and sexy, yet sensitive personality on the show was perfectly written.

[ChronoRogue]

Great list, I'd agree with that for the most part.

Remender I don't know how to feel about, he wrote Rogue terribly, but he did finally bring back here sorely missed super-strength and flight.
I guess since that was more about plot rather than characterization then he probably belongs where you put him.

I know your list is about comic writers , but I feel that the crew responsible for the writing and directing of X-men TAS (Larrry Houston, Eric & Julia Lewald) should get a their props here for their great interpretation of Rogue.
They were the crew responsible for making me a Rogue fan in the first place. Her sassy and sexy, yet sensitive personality on the show was perfectly written.

Same. As much as Remember used her as a source of drama to prop up Wanda, he did return Rogue to her iconic self.

I think especially in the wider scope of X-Men history, the flying brick power-set sets Rogue apart from other mutants. Unlike the Avengers, it's not a common sight among mutants to possesses that combination of powers (flight, strength, invulnerability). Instead psionics, especially telepaths and telekinetics are a dime a dozen. Off the top of my head I can only really recall Monet and Sabra as flying bricks. I suppose Sunspot might count too but he's missing the invulnerability and his flight is pretty inconsistently portrayed.

But yea, over all as a writer despite the end result, he missed the mark on Rogue. He went too extreme on her impulsiveness and anger, which while somewhat justified Rogue lost friends and possibly students to Wanda's reality warp it seemed a bit hollow considering Rogue had shown the opposite behavior during Children's Crusade.

Oh yes, I would consider the TAS writers as up there for writing a good Rogue. The only thing negative I will say in regards to the writing team is that there wasn't a ton of development for Rogue in the series over all. They got her voice down perfect, they gave her arcs and episodes that highlighted her important relationships and history, and gave her great action scenes... But Rogue didn't really change much in that series, she stayed a static character. Compare TAS Rogue's development to Evolution's Rogue and it's kinda night and day. That said, still a very well-written Rogue and not every character needs to go through significant character changes to be enjoyable.