Bobbi Morse: Mockingbird Appreciation 2021

[OOTCS]

Where do you guys think Bobbi ranks in popularity historically speaking?

Like, aside from the death gap, I feel like she’s always fairly featured and beloved by her fans but on a larger Marvel scale, where would she rank amongst female heroes in the 80s for discussions and whatnot

I've actually collected some research on this.

In the late 80s, Marvel ran polls in the letters pages of Avengers, West Coast Avengers, and Avengers Spotlight for "favorite Avenger with a solo book" and "favorite Avenger without a solo book." SuperMegaMonkey posted about it here: http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chron...light_26.shtml. In the "Without a Book" category, Mockingbird came in 10th out of 32 total. If you narrow it down to just female Avengers, She-Hulk was the only one with a book, and in the "Without a Book" category, Mockingbird came in 3rd, after Scarlet Witch and Captain Marvel/Monica Rambeau. Next came Wasp and Tigra. Interestingly, out of the 6 top female Avengers of the late 80s, only She-Hulk is actively on a team at the moment. Monica and Wanda have made appearances over the past year, but the others are barely being used at the moment.

In 2012, 4 years after Bobbi's return, IGN put out a list of user-voted Top 50 Avengers of All-Time (https://www.ign.com/lists/avengers), and she placed at #48. Ten women ranked ahead of her. From lowest-ranked to highest: Spider-Woman/Julia Carpenter, Black Widow, Storm, Invisible Woman, Valkyrie, Wasp, Spider-Woman/Jessica Drew, She-Hulk, Scarlet Witch, and Ms. Marvel/Carol Danvers. Neither Tigra and Monica Rambeau placed in this poll, unfortunately.

Goliath also ranked the Top 50 Avengers more recently (https://www.goliath.com/comics/the-1...s-of-all-time/) — I can't tell when this was published, but it was after Kit Harrington was cast in the Eternals, so 2019 at the earliest. Here, Mockingbird ranks at #38 of 50. The women lower than her on the list are Mantis, Valkyrie, Storm, and Invisible Woman. Ahead of her are 8 women: Jessica Jones, Spectrum, Spider-Woman/Jessica Drew, She-Hulk, Scarlet Witch, Black Widow, Captain Marvel/Carol Danvers, and Wasp. However, this ranking comes from the editors, not readers, so it doesn't necessarily reflect who was popular during that specific year.

I also have a memory of CBR doing yearly user-ranked lists of Top 50 Avengers, but I can't find anything about it on Google. Maybe they took it down? Anyway, if I recall correctly, Bobbi's popularity fluctuated based on whether she was appearing regularly in books or not.

That being said, this is all comparing Bobbi's popularity next to her fellow Avengers. It doesn't really compare to the X-Men, who tend to feature their female characters much more often and much more consistently than the Avengers do.

[Soulsword323]

Where do you guys think Bobbi ranks in popularity historically speaking?

Like, aside from the death gap, I feel like she’s always fairly featured and beloved by her fans but on a larger Marvel scale, where would she rank amongst female heroes in the 80s for discussions and whatnot

This is how I feel:

I think she's on the mid to low B-list scale.

She's got kind of a cult popularity and is known by invested comic fans but I don't think she's as iconic or popular as other female heroes, but admittedly some of them got bigger media pushes than she got.

I do remember when they brought her back it felt like she was everywhere or just really prominent.

Bobbi's been holding on pretty decently over these past couple of years, but you can tell she isn't a priority.

[Muffin Crud]

I've actually collected some research on this.

In the late 80s, Marvel ran polls in the letters pages of Avengers, West Coast Avengers, and Avengers Spotlight for "favorite Avenger with a solo book" and "favorite Avenger without a solo book." SuperMegaMonkey posted about it here: http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chron...light_26.shtml. In the "Without a Book" category, Mockingbird came in 10th out of 32 total. If you narrow it down to just female Avengers, She-Hulk was the only one with a book, and in the "Without a Book" category, Mockingbird came in 3rd, after Scarlet Witch and Captain Marvel/Monica Rambeau. Next came Wasp and Tigra. Interestingly, out of the 6 top female Avengers of the late 80s, only She-Hulk is actively on a team at the moment. Monica and Wanda have made appearances over the past year, but the others are barely being used at the moment.

In 2012, 4 years after Bobbi's return, IGN put out a list of user-voted Top 50 Avengers of All-Time (https://www.ign.com/lists/avengers), and she placed at #48. Ten women ranked ahead of her. From lowest-ranked to highest: Spider-Woman/Julia Carpenter, Black Widow, Storm, Invisible Woman, Valkyrie, Wasp, Spider-Woman/Jessica Drew, She-Hulk, Scarlet Witch, and Ms. Marvel/Carol Danvers. Neither Tigra and Monica Rambeau placed in this poll, unfortunately.

Goliath also ranked the Top 50 Avengers more recently (https://www.goliath.com/comics/the-1...s-of-all-time/) — I can't tell when this was published, but it was after Kit Harrington was cast in the Eternals, so 2019 at the earliest. Here, Mockingbird ranks at #38 of 50. The women lower than her on the list are Mantis, Valkyrie, Storm, and Invisible Woman. Ahead of her are 8 women: Jessica Jones, Spectrum, Spider-Woman/Jessica Drew, She-Hulk, Scarlet Witch, Black Widow, Captain Marvel/Carol Danvers, and Wasp. However, this ranking comes from the editors, not readers, so it doesn't necessarily reflect who was popular during that specific year.

I also have a memory of CBR doing yearly user-ranked lists of Top 50 Avengers, but I can't find anything about it on Google. Maybe they took it down? Anyway, if I recall correctly, Bobbi's popularity fluctuated based on whether she was appearing regularly in books or not.

That being said, this is all comparing Bobbi's popularity next to her fellow Avengers. It doesn't really compare to the X-Men, who tend to feature their female characters much more often and much more consistently than the Avengers do.

Ah this is so super informative! Thank you! ❤️

[Dermie]

Bobbi actually made an appearance this week!

It was only a one-panel cameo, but we did get to see Mockingbird in spoilers:

SILK #5! Cindy needs access to a high tech lab, so one of the people she reaches out to is her old mentor, Bobbi, to see if she knows of an abandoned SHIELD facility she can use. Unfortunately Mockingbird is busy fighting Hydra goons and isn't available to go with Cindy to enter the security codes to get her inside, so Cindy has to try other options.

end of spoilers

Although it was only a brief appearance it was still great to finally see Mockingbird again--and to see one of her past friendships being remembered and acknowledged again.

[OOTCS]

Bobbi actually made an appearance this week!

It was only a one-panel cameo, but we did get to see Mockingbird in spoilers:

SILK #5! Cindy needs access to a high tech lab, so one of the people she reaches out to is her old mentor, Bobbi, to see if she knows of an abandoned SHIELD facility she can use. Unfortunately Mockingbird is busy fighting Hydra goons and isn't available to go with Cindy to enter the security codes to get her inside, so Cindy has to try other options.

end of spoilers

Although it was only a brief appearance it was still great to finally see Mockingbird again--and to see one of her past friendships being remembered and acknowledged again.

That's great news! I've actually been reading Silk and hoping for a Mockingbird appearance, and had already bought issue #5, but hadn't gotten around to reading it yet.

[Frontier]

Bobbi actually made an appearance this week!

It was only a one-panel cameo, but we did get to see Mockingbird in spoilers:

SILK #5! Cindy needs access to a high tech lab, so one of the people she reaches out to is her old mentor, Bobbi, to see if she knows of an abandoned SHIELD facility she can use. Unfortunately Mockingbird is busy fighting Hydra goons and isn't available to go with Cindy to enter the security codes to get her inside, so Cindy has to try other options.

end of spoilers

Although it was only a brief appearance it was still great to finally see Mockingbird again--and to see one of her past friendships being remembered and acknowledged again.

That's really appreciated .

[chicago_bastard]

I've actually collected some research on this.

In the late 80s, Marvel ran polls in the letters pages of Avengers, West Coast Avengers, and Avengers Spotlight for "favorite Avenger with a solo book" and "favorite Avenger without a solo book." SuperMegaMonkey posted about it here: http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chron...light_26.shtml. In the "Without a Book" category, Mockingbird came in 10th out of 32 total. If you narrow it down to just female Avengers, She-Hulk was the only one with a book, and in the "Without a Book" category, Mockingbird came in 3rd, after Scarlet Witch and Captain Marvel/Monica Rambeau. Next came Wasp and Tigra. Interestingly, out of the 6 top female Avengers of the late 80s, only She-Hulk is actively on a team at the moment. Monica and Wanda have made appearances over the past year, but the others are barely being used at the moment.

In 2012, 4 years after Bobbi's return, IGN put out a list of user-voted Top 50 Avengers of All-Time (https://www.ign.com/lists/avengers), and she placed at #48. Ten women ranked ahead of her. From lowest-ranked to highest: Spider-Woman/Julia Carpenter, Black Widow, Storm, Invisible Woman, Valkyrie, Wasp, Spider-Woman/Jessica Drew, She-Hulk, Scarlet Witch, and Ms. Marvel/Carol Danvers. Neither Tigra and Monica Rambeau placed in this poll, unfortunately.

Goliath also ranked the Top 50 Avengers more recently (https://www.goliath.com/comics/the-1...s-of-all-time/) — I can't tell when this was published, but it was after Kit Harrington was cast in the Eternals, so 2019 at the earliest. Here, Mockingbird ranks at #38 of 50. The women lower than her on the list are Mantis, Valkyrie, Storm, and Invisible Woman. Ahead of her are 8 women: Jessica Jones, Spectrum, Spider-Woman/Jessica Drew, She-Hulk, Scarlet Witch, Black Widow, Captain Marvel/Carol Danvers, and Wasp. However, this ranking comes from the editors, not readers, so it doesn't necessarily reflect who was popular during that specific year.

I also have a memory of CBR doing yearly user-ranked lists of Top 50 Avengers, but I can't find anything about it on Google. Maybe they took it down? Anyway, if I recall correctly, Bobbi's popularity fluctuated based on whether she was appearing regularly in books or not.

That being said, this is all comparing Bobbi's popularity next to her fellow Avengers. It doesn't really compare to the X-Men, who tend to feature their female characters much more often and much more consistently than the Avengers do.

I see that this post is already old but I haven't visited this thread since then. Maybe it's still of interest: Regarding the CBR poll you are referring to, this was their latest list from 2019: https://www.cbr.com/top-200-dc-marve...s-master-list/

It's not Avengers only but all Marvel characters though.

[OOTCS]

I see that this post is already old but I haven't visited this thread since then. Maybe it's still of interest: Regarding the CBR poll you are referring to, this was their latest list from 2019: https://www.cbr.com/top-200-dc-marve...s-master-list/

It's not Avengers only but all Marvel characters though.

Ahh, that's what I was looking for. Well, at least she made the list.

In other news, I'm not sure when leagueofcomicgeeks.com added the feature to create reading lists, but I added a few for Bobbi:

Core/Essential Reading: https://leagueofcomicgeeks.com/profi...e-reading-list

Follow-up Reading: https://leagueofcomicgeeks.com/profi...p-reading-list

What to Read Next: https://leagueofcomicgeeks.com/profi...t-to-read-next

Thoughts? Would you add anything that's not there, or move things from one list to another?

[Frontier]

Reading early WCA issues, I'd forgotten how much Bobbi used to crack jokes and quip. I guess I forget because she's depicted so seriously these days.

[Dermie]

Reading early WCA issues, I'd forgotten how much Bobbi used to crack jokes and quip. I guess I forget because she's depicted so seriously these days.

Yeah, it was part of her fighting style--fitting her code name--that she would making cutting barbs with her sarcastic sense of humour and keep up a general stream of chatter, which helped to distract opponents and keep them off balance. She was like Deadpool before there was Deadpool, in that regard--although obviously she was never quite as extreme as him.

I do wish more modern writers would remember to use Mockingbird's humour and her distracting taunts. It was something I always loved about her, and it helps to distinguish her from Black Widow and Yelena Belova and some of the other more stoic and grim super-spy characters.

[Seren]

They would then compare her to Peter and say she's too quippy.

[Frontier]

They would then compare her to Peter and say she's too quippy.

People probably expect everybody to quip like in the MCU. Look at Black Widow .

[Dermie]

They would then compare her to Peter and say she's too quippy.

I know some people are picking on that point with the SPIDER-WOMAN book, but Jessica doesn't have the same history of being a smart mouth that Bobbi does. Given that Bobbi was always quippy before and its just some of her more recent writers (some, but not all) who have overlooked that, I doubt many people would really make that comparison or complaint with her.

I suspect part of the reason that some of the Spider-Woman fans focus on it so much is because Karla Pacheco draws attention to it herself--in most of her interviews and tweets and such about the book she makes references to her jokes and puns, and the editors trying to rein her in, etc.

Its true that Jessica does joke and quip more than she used to in her original book--but her life has changed in a lot of other ways since then too. She wasn't a mother back then, for one thing. She also tended to be a lot more of a loner -- she didn't work with other superheroes on a regular basis; she usually just worked with a single close friend or partner (like Lindsay or Scotty McDowell) who was not a superhero. Now she's been a member of the Avengers and is frequently hanging out with her superhero bestie Carol Danvers. With so many other things in her life changing and evolving I'm not sure why it seems strange to people that Jessica might have also lightened up a little and started showing more of a sense of humour (and picking up the joke-making habit from her teammates).

To get back on topic to Mockingbird though--I'd enjoy seeing Bobbi guest star in SPIDER-WOMAN for a team up at some point!

[OOTCS]

I know some people are picking on that point with the SPIDER-WOMAN book, but Jessica doesn't have the same history of being a smart mouth that Bobbi does. Given that Bobbi was always quippy before and its just some of her more recent writers (some, but not all) who have overlooked that, I doubt many people would really make that comparison or complaint with her.

I suspect part of the reason that some of the Spider-Woman fans focus on it so much is because Karla Pacheco draws attention to it herself--in most of her interviews and tweets and such about the book she makes references to her jokes and puns, and the editors trying to rein her in, etc.

Its true that Jessica does joke and quip more than she used to in her original book--but her life has changed in a lot of other ways since then too. She wasn't a mother back then, for one thing. She also tended to be a lot more of a loner -- she didn't work with other superheroes on a regular basis; she usually just worked with a single close friend or partner (like Lindsay or Scotty McDowell) who was not a superhero. Now she's been a member of the Avengers and is frequently hanging out with her superhero bestie Carol Danvers. With so many other things in her life changing and evolving I'm not sure why it seems strange to people that Jessica might have also lightened up a little and started showing more of a sense of humour (and picking up the joke-making habit from her teammates).

To get back on topic to Mockingbird though--I'd enjoy seeing Bobbi guest star in SPIDER-WOMAN for a team up at some point!

Yeah, one of my favorite things about Mockingbird was how fun and light-hearted she was, even though she knew how to take things seriously when appropriate. It's natural that after all she went through since she started out, with the Phantom Rider and then the Skrulls, she would have a darker phase, like she did in the McCann/López run, but at heart, she's still a joker. I like seeing that side of her occasionally, like when she used the image inducer to pretend to be Natasha in Secret Avengers, and the way she jokes around with Janet and Bucky in Unstoppable Wasp and teased Clint (while volunteering to help him out) in Hawkeye:Freefall. But there are some runs (*coughSpider-Man/Deadpoolcough*) where it's missing entirely, and she seems like a different character.

And yes! to the Spider-Woman team-up.

[Frontier]

Yeah, one of my favorite things about Mockingbird was how fun and light-hearted she was, even though she knew how to take things seriously when appropriate. It's natural that after all she went through since she started out, with the Phantom Rider and then the Skrulls, she would have a darker phase, like she did in the McCann/López run, but at heart, she's still a joker. I like seeing that side of her occasionally, like when she used the image inducer to pretend to be Natasha in Secret Avengers, and the way she jokes around with Janet and Bucky in Unstoppable Wasp and teased Clint (while volunteering to help him out) in Hawkeye:Freefall. But there are some runs (*coughSpider-Man/Deadpoolcough*) where it's missing entirely, and she seems like a different character.

And yes! to the Spider-Woman team-up.

She was just not written well in general when it comes to Spider-Man, from what I remember.