Bobbi Morse: Mockingbird Appreciation 2021

[OOTCS]

I meant people, as in readers.If that was my only experience w/ her I wouldn't want to read more of her, luckily for me it isn't but it is for most.
If she was a hit on ASM, then she might have even gotten a solo from it.

And how good did the books you where she regularly starred mention sell.

Well, Bobbi's been around for 50 years and she's never been a Spider-Man supporting character, so it's not really fair to say that her marketability is tied to how sympathetic she comes off in a single run of Amazing Spider-Man. That being said, during that run, she actually has Peter's back the vast majority of the time. Sure, she gives him a hard time when he's being annoying (like when he set up autotune in the car, but come on, wouldn't you?), but she respects him professionally and listens to his hunches:

• She backed him up when he thought Norman Osborn was behind the Goblin Army and helped Spidey go after "Osborn" (even though SHIELD was against it)
• She deceived and quit SHIELD to help Spidey and Silver Sable get her country back
• She understood why he had to destroy Parker Industries when Otto was going to turn it over to Hydra
• She took seriously Peter's suspicions about Humanitech's AI not actually being artificial

If you look back on most of the times that Bobbi actually comes off as unlikable in her interactions with Spider-Man during that time period, they're almost all from either Spider-Man/Deadpool or random event tie-in books.

I think the real reason she didn't shine in that series was because she's not cut out to be a supporting character. She has her own things going on all the time (in fact, she popped in and out of that book and that was generally her explanation; "Oh, I was off rounding up the Zodiac, "I was doing my own thing, I'm not your sidekick," "Oh yeah, I'll be fine, I've got a new job lined up on the West Coast," etc.) and her own history and drive that motivates her. Most of these sidekick-for-a-single-run roles are basically interchangeable, and characters never come off their best in roles like that. That's why Bobbi really needs to either be part of a team again (see how Agents of Wakanda #3-4 gave her a strong narrative) or get her own solo.

[Spiderfan001]

Well, Bobbi's been around for 50 years and she's never been a Spider-Man supporting character, so it's not really fair to say that her marketability is tied to how sympathetic she comes off in a single run of Amazing Spider-Man. That being said, during that run, she actually has Peter's back the vast majority of the time. Sure, she gives him a hard time when he's being annoying (like when he set up autotune in the car, but come on, wouldn't you?), but she respects him professionally and listens to his hunches:

• She backed him up when he thought Norman Osborn was behind the Goblin Army and helped Spidey go after "Osborn" (even though SHIELD was against it)
• She deceived and quit SHIELD to help Spidey and Silver Sable get her country back
• She understood why he had to destroy Parker Industries when Otto was going to turn it over to Hydra
• She took seriously Peter's suspicions about Humanitech's AI not actually being artificial

If you look back on most of the times that Bobbi actually comes off as unlikable in her interactions with Spider-Man during that time period, they're almost all from either Spider-Man/Deadpool or random event tie-in books.

I think the real reason she didn't shine in that series was because she's not cut out to be a supporting character. She has her own things going on all the time (in fact, she popped in and out of that book and that was generally her explanation; "Oh, I was off rounding up the Zodiac, "I was doing my own thing, I'm not your sidekick," "Oh yeah, I'll be fine, I've got a new job lined up on the West Coast," etc.) and her own history and drive that motivates her. Most of these sidekick-for-a-single-run roles are basically interchangeable, and characters never come off their best in roles like that. That's why Bobbi really needs to either be part of a team again (see how Agents of Wakanda #3-4 gave her a strong narrative) or get her own solo.

And I can say w/ a lot of confidence that none of her comics have ever sold as well as ASM.My point is ASM is where most people read her, a lot of her.Specially modern readers.And Spider-man/Deadpool is also a very popular book.
I'm not tying bobbi to Spider-man, I'm tying her to ASM being a comic that's one of the most read series.

A lot of characters give Spider-man "a hard time" and Spidey fans hate it.Falcon gave him a hard time in Avengers Disassembled and someone posted a panel recently of it and most of the comments were roasting the f*ck out of him.I doubt any of them would buy something w/ Falcon as a main part of it.Nadia Pym did the same in an Avengers run w/ Spidey constantly and that's why I didn't check her out in her solo(Something Wasp IIRC), the character made me want to put the comics down whenever she appeared.

It's just not a good look, specially when the audience knows how much Peter really does.It works when he's Peter and is late for something since they don't know what he was doing, but if I'm talking to Spider-man and I'm working for SHIELD, I would how much he has done and not be disrespectful.Again it worked for a bit, like the Auto-tune thing.She even brought it back w/ Griffin.But she took it too far at times, not making her a bad person but not peaking anyone's interest to read more about her and be invested in her.

Nah,it's her personality in ASM.Her decisions were fine to good, her dialogue not so much.Slott didn't do her any favors.I liked her a lot more in everything else I've read w/ her in it.If anything having her own things works to make readers go read her other stuff, but she has to be a character I like and want to know more about.Not someone who I want to get over it so I can read other stuff.

I think you are thinking I'm insulting Bobbi, I'm not.I'm saying Slott did her wrong when she had a big audience reading her.She deserves better.

[OOTCS]

And I can say w/ a lot of confidence that none of her comics have ever sold as well as ASM.My point is ASM is where most people read her, a lot of her.Specially modern readers.And Spider-man/Deadpool is also a very popular book.
I'm not tying bobbi to Spider-man, I'm tying her to ASM being a comic that's one of the most read series.

A lot of characters give Spider-man "a hard time" and Spidey fans hate it.Falcon gave him a hard time in Avengers Disassembled and someone posted a panel recently of it and most of the comments were roasting the f*ck out of him.I doubt any of them would buy something w/ Falcon as a main part of it.Nadia Pym did the same in an Avengers run w/ Spidey constantly and that's why I didn't check her out in her solo(Something Wasp IIRC), the character made me want to put the comics down whenever she appeared.

It's just not a good look, specially when the audience knows how much Peter really does.It works when he's Peter and is late for something since they don't know what he was doing, but if I'm talking to Spider-man and I'm working for SHIELD, I would how much he has done and not be disrespectful.Again it worked for a bit, like the Auto-tune thing.She even brought it back w/ Griffin.But she took it too far at times, not making her a bad person but not peaking anyone's interest to read more about her and be invested in her.

Nah,it's her personality in ASM.Her decisions were fine to good, her dialogue not so much.Slott didn't do her any favors.I liked her a lot more in everything else I've read w/ her in it.If anything having her own things works to make readers go read her other stuff, but she has to be a character I like and want to know more about.Not someone who I want to get over it so I can read other stuff.

I think you are thinking I'm insulting Bobbi, I'm not.I'm saying Slott did her wrong when she had a big audience reading her.She deserves better.

Well, sure, I assume that ASM is Marvel's highest-selling book (or at least their highest-selling non-X-book) and always has been. Are you saying that all characters' guest appearances in Spider-Man's books are more important than their appearances in any other book, simply because it has the most readers? It seems to me that any readers who judge a character exclusively by their interactions with Spider-Man aren't likely to pick up solo books for these other characters anyway, if they're only reading comics for Spidey.

I understand that you're criticizing Slott's handling of Bobbi and not Bobbi as a character in general, but I find it hard to accept that Spider-Man writers have that much power over the general Marvel fans' opinion, or even that the audience who's just in it for a single character (admittedly, a single character with multiple books a month) can really be counted as general fans.

[Thirteen]

I would be disappointed to hear that Bobbi was poorly portrayed in the Slott run of Amazing. Aside from the relationship, which seemed like a forced cliche, I like what I have seen of the run and plan on picking up the collected edition for the issues.
I am reminded that the first appearance of Mockingbird (not Bobbi) was with Spider-Man in Marvel Team-Up and had her signature battle motormouth action going on...and had her act as Spidey's "driver" to boot!


then

[Spiderfan001]

Well, sure, I assume that ASM is Marvel's highest-selling book (or at least their highest-selling non-X-book) and always has been. Are you saying that all characters' guest appearances in Spider-Man's books are more important than their appearances in any other book, simply because it has the most readers? It seems to me that any readers who judge a character exclusively by their interactions with Spider-Man aren't likely to pick up solo books for these other characters anyway, if they're only reading comics for Spidey.

I understand that you're criticizing Slott's handling of Bobbi and not Bobbi as a character in general, but I find it hard to accept that Spider-Man writers have that much power over the general Marvel fans' opinion, or even that the audience who's just in it for a single character (admittedly, a single character with multiple books a month) can really be counted as general fans.

It's not guest apperances, she was kinda supporting cast for the run.And for characters on her level of popularity, Yes.Not all characters obviously.
Again you assume they are only reading Spidey comics, they can read Spider-man,DD,Hulk,Thor and like 5 X-books and still read Bobbi in only ASM.You act like Bobbi is playing a supporting role in all popular comics except Spidey.She's barely in any on the top 10-25 or even top 50 one's and definitely not in the capacity she was in ASM.

Not Spider-man, any of the good selling books like Immortal Hulk, X-men,etc. .ASM just happens to be a part of that timelessly for the most part and the run she did support in.

[Spiderfan001]

I would be disappointed to hear that Bobbi was poorly portrayed in the Slott run of Amazing. Aside from the relationship, which seemed like a forced cliche, I like what I have seen of the run and plan on picking up the collected edition for the issues.
I am reminded that the first appearance of Mockingbird (not Bobbi) was with Spider-Man in Marvel Team-Up and had her signature battle motormouth action going on...and had her act as Spidey's "driver" to boot!


then

Spidey telling her to keep it down while driving and focus and then ASM decades latter
"Oh how the turntables"

[Soulsword323]

New canon Bobbi appearance! It's a "silent" comic so she doesn't have any lines, but she's in a digital comic ("It's Jeff" Infinity Comic) that was released today on Marvel Unlimited. She appears with Bucky, Janet, Nadia, and the rest of the Agents of G.I.R.L.

The art is by Gurihiru, who did the second run on Unstoppable Wasp, so it feels like a nice little time capsule seeing them all together again.

Nice! Glad Bobbi is getting a spotlight somewhere.

I do wish that Marvel would give Mockingbird a second chance at a series with a different creative team. She's a great character who could do well. That or put her back on the Avengers (with a different creative team!)

This please. I'd love to see Mockingbird get another chance at a solo. Cain's run nosedived super hard at the end, and I'd like to see someone else have a go with Bobbi. She has so much potential, and should be doing more.


Also, I don't see how Slott's interpterion hurt the character. Seems like a really big reach to me.

[Spiderfan001]

You misunderstand what I'm saying.It didn't hurt her, but it didn't benefit her either.If done right it could have, a lot too.

It's simple.ASM is one of the most read comics, she supports regularly in a run of ASM and hence most people's (biggest)experience w/ her will be on there and Spider-man/Deadpool.Specially modern readers.

She didn't come of as a likeable character in those runs, so when people read her they weren't interested enough in her to find out more about her.

If she was done right, more people would be inclined to read about her and stuff she's in.

[Soulsword323]

I get not liking his take on Bobbi. However, I think there are a number of characters in the Marvel Universe who some would deem having unlikable personalities, and they still get focus and development frequently.

So I don't think that run really did much to hinder Mockingbird's chances. But that's just IMO.

[OOTCS]

Huge news! Bobbi is going to be part of the upcoming Marvel's Wastelanders: Hawkeye podcast series, starting October 4:

https://www.marvel.com/amp/articles/...keye-october-4

She'll be voiced by Michelle Hurd, who actually has been part of the Marvel Universe before, having played D.A. Reyes on Netflix's Daredevil.

I haven't been able to find out anything about Bobbi's role in this story, but she's near the top of the list of names, so that's got to be a good sign, right? This is the first time we've ever heard of Bobbi in the Wastelands universe, so it's quite possible that she and Clint have never met before. In both 616 and the Avengers EMH cartoon, she and Clint first met when he was in a bad situation and had given up hope, which sounds very much like whatever's happening here, so I wouldn't be surprised if there's a parallel scenario in this story.

[Frontier]

Huge news! Bobbi is going to be part of the upcoming Marvel's Wastelanders: Hawkeye podcast series, starting October 4:

https://www.marvel.com/amp/articles/...keye-october-4

She'll be voiced by Michelle Hurd, who actually has been part of the Marvel Universe before, having played D.A. Reyes on Netflix's Daredevil.

I haven't been able to find out anything about Bobbi's role in this story, but she's near the top of the list of names, so that's got to be a good sign, right? This is the first time we've ever heard of Bobbi in the Wastelands universe, so it's quite possible that she and Clint have never met before. In both 616 and the Avengers EMH cartoon, she and Clint first met when he was in a bad situation and had given up hope, which sounds very much like whatever's happening here, so I wouldn't be surprised if there's a parallel scenario in this story.

I can never complain about more Bobbi. Might be an interesting take .

[OOTCS]

Did anyone else listen to the first two episodes of Marvel's Wastelanders: Hawkeye yet? (Available as of yesterday to subscribers or with a free trial on Apple Podcasts and SiriusXM) I really like how they're portraying Bobbi so far, even though it doesn't seem like she's going to have a huge role in the series.

For people familiar with the Old Man Logan and Old Man Hawkeye comic universe, this is loosely based on that, but with a lot of details changed. (Bobbi existing, for one )

spoilers:

It's confirmed that Bobbi is a former Avenger, but she's not dead, and they keep making a point of talking about how Hawkeye is the only Avenger who didn't die that day, so I guess she was either retired or working for SHIELD or something at the time? Bobbi also talks about having lost people who were important to her, but it doesn't say who, so I guess she's either talking about her former teammates on the Avengers or maybe fellow SHIELD agents. She's Ash's mother, but not biologically—although, as it turns out, Clint isn't her biological father, either! The two of them adopted her when she was young (her biological parents aren't revealed) and since Clint ran out on them a decade ago (for a...decent reason with unfortunate complete lack of communication), Bobbi has been raising Ash on her own. Not that Ash seems to outwardly appreciate her. She's a brat, but in a teenager-under-a-lot-of-stress way, not in an aspiring-Kingpin kind of way. Meanwhile, Bobbi seems to be a really good mother, as much as she can be under the circumstances, and she's raising Ash to be an independent thinker. There are hints that she can potentially kick as much ass as she does in the comics, but she's chosen to lie low for her daughter's sake.

end of spoilers

I'm guessing that she's not going to be part of the action for most of the series, but maybe we'll be pleasantly surprised! In any case, it's a good start, and probably the most effort Marvel has put into Bobbi in quite a while. I'm really happy with it so far.

[Frontier]

Did anyone else listen to the first two episodes of Marvel's Wastelanders: Hawkeye yet? (Available as of yesterday to subscribers or with a free trial on Apple Podcasts and SiriusXM) I really like how they're portraying Bobbi so far, even though it doesn't seem like she's going to have a huge role in the series.

For people familiar with the Old Man Logan and Old Man Hawkeye comic universe, this is loosely based on that, but with a lot of details changed. (Bobbi existing, for one )

spoilers:

It's confirmed that Bobbi is a former Avenger, but she's not dead, and they keep making a point of talking about how Hawkeye is the only Avenger who didn't die that day, so I guess she was either retired or working for SHIELD or something at the time? Bobbi also talks about having lost people who were important to her, but it doesn't say who, so I guess she's either talking about her former teammates on the Avengers or maybe fellow SHIELD agents. She's Ash's mother, but not biologically—although, as it turns out, Clint isn't her biological father, either! The two of them adopted her when she was young (her biological parents aren't revealed) and since Clint ran out on them a decade ago (for a...decent reason with unfortunate complete lack of communication), Bobbi has been raising Ash on her own. Not that Ash seems to outwardly appreciate her. She's a brat, but in a teenager-under-a-lot-of-stress way, not in an aspiring-Kingpin kind of way. Meanwhile, Bobbi seems to be a really good mother, as much as she can be under the circumstances, and she's raising Ash to be an independent thinker. There are hints that she can potentially kick as much ass as she does in the comics, but she's chosen to lie low for her daughter's sake.

end of spoilers

I'm guessing that she's not going to be part of the action for most of the series, but maybe we'll be pleasantly surprised! In any case, it's a good start, and probably the most effort Marvel has put into Bobbi in quite a while. I'm really happy with it so far.

spoilers:

Now that I think about it the only "canon" ClintxBobbi kid I can think of is Francis Barton from Next Avengers.

end of spoilers

[OOTCS]

spoilers:

Now that I think about it the only "canon" ClintxBobbi kid I can think of is Francis Barton from Next Avengers.

end of spoilers

Yeah, it's just Francis (though he's existed in a few different universes) and the unborn child from when Bobbi had a miscarriage that was mentioned in Secret Invasion.

[OOTCS]

The latest Wastelanders: Hawkeye episode has a lot more Bobbi in it; she's starting to get much more involved in the plot! spoilers:

She and Kate are teaming up, which is something I've wanted in the comics for a very long time. And it turns out that... Kate is Ash's biological mother! We don't know yet who her father is, but I'm wondering if it's a villain or someone with villain connections? Which might explain why Kate would leave her with Bobbi and Clint, to keep her safe from whoever the father is...

end of spoilers