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  1. #1
    Astonishing Member 9th.'s Avatar
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    Default BOOYAH: Cyborg Appreciation 2021

    Happy New Years everyone, lets gather here and talk about our main man Victor Stone.





    Reading List (Super behind but reading them nontheless):
    DC: Green Lantern, Red Hood, Far Sector, The Other History of the DC Universe, Truth and Justice
    Marvel: HiXmen, Miles Morales: Spider-Man, Immortal Hulk, Daredevil
    LionForge: Noble, Astonisher
    Image: Killadelphia, Bitter Root, Excellence
    IDW: TMNT: The Last Ronin
    Other: XOGeneSYS, Clock Striker, Is'Nana The Were-Spider, Yohance, EXO Wale Williams

  2. #2
    Extraordinary Member Johnny's Avatar
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  3. #3
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    I don't know about the "suit" but I like this logotype best

    330419._SX1280_QL80_TTD_.jpg

    Might as well ask. Slim Cyborg (this one) or Tank Cyborg? (Teen Titans cartoon)

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    I don't know about the "suit" but I like this logotype best

    330419._SX1280_QL80_TTD_.jpg

    Might as well ask. Slim Cyborg (this one) or Tank Cyborg? (Teen Titans cartoon)
    Slim, of course!!!
    1E5F9702-DEF6-4661-9304-9F25D7F7E8E5.jpg
    46F3565C-1896-4D1B-BA36-BC5E4185186F.jpg
    I think live action I would even prefer a mix of Doom Patrol and Smallville Cyborg look, similar to what YJ Outsiders did:

    AA7A94BF-6337-487D-BC92-EE346804DCD9.jpg

    I think him just being cybernetic shouldn’t keep him from having an amazing costume too!

  5. #5
    Astonishing Member 9th.'s Avatar
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    I love the YJ look but I wish they get rid of the red, it makes him look evil.
    Reading List (Super behind but reading them nontheless):
    DC: Green Lantern, Red Hood, Far Sector, The Other History of the DC Universe, Truth and Justice
    Marvel: HiXmen, Miles Morales: Spider-Man, Immortal Hulk, Daredevil
    LionForge: Noble, Astonisher
    Image: Killadelphia, Bitter Root, Excellence
    IDW: TMNT: The Last Ronin
    Other: XOGeneSYS, Clock Striker, Is'Nana The Were-Spider, Yohance, EXO Wale Williams

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9th. View Post
    I love the YJ look but I wish they get rid of the red, it makes him look evil.
    Honestly I've gotten used to the red addition, but I think Cyborg needs more on the color pallete than just grey and red (Teen Titans cartoon and DCYou comic added blue that worked, Smallville had hints of blue and purple). I also liked that YJ and even the JL film had different colors to represent his mindset (purple when mind controlled or fully under the Father Box, red when he is neutral state, and blue when he got cleanse by the Metron chair).

    I think it works besides just having only grey with a red eye. It looks dull imo.

  7. #7
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Happy New Year to Victor and all his fans .

  8. #8
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Might as well ask. Slim Cyborg (this one) or Tank Cyborg? (Teen Titans cartoon)
    Why not both? Vic's "default" should be a slim design but he should be able to "tank up" for difficult fights or environmental hazards, or whatever. He should be able to change his appearance to suit his needs at any given moment.

    Anyway, in last year's thread (and the one before that) we talked a lot about what Vic needs to be a viable, stand-alone IP; supporting cast, rogues, themes/tones, settings, scope, etc etc etc. And the last few days I've been kicking an idea around in my head for Vic's home city I thought I'd share.

    First off, Vic would be a cosmic hero, adventuring across space and other dimensions. But after he's done on Apokolips/Thanagar/Skartaris/wherever, he still needs a place to go to rest his feet right? And that home can and should be the focus of the occasional story and be an interesting place in its own right with ties to the larger ideas in Vic's mythos.

    I think it's best to pull from established concepts when applicable, since fans will accept and latch onto something they recognize more easily than they'll accept a brand new idea. So I'd put Vic in Jump City. It's a name fans of the cartoon know well but it has no history in comics (outside of a name drop here and there) and is basically a blank slate, so it's kinda the best of both worlds; a known element that still offers tons and tons of creative freedom.

    My version of Jump City was built entirely by STAR Labs in the 80's and early 90's. While it's not truly a city out of time (like Fawcett was back in the Power of Shazam! days), it's still a city deeply rooted in the trends of the era. The Jump is full of neons and bright pastel, 80's inspired colors, arcades, skate parks, shopping malls, big hair and break dancing. Like a retro-cyberpunk paradise created forty years ago. And in the center of the city is one of the largest STAR faculties in America.

    When the story starts, both the city and the Lab are fairly dilapidated and run down. It's not a ghost town or a slum but both Jump and the Lab have seen better days. The Lab is barely used, much of it has been sealed off for decades and no research of any real value has been conducted there in just as long. The staff don't even know what's behind all the locked doors.

    Now, why would a science R&D firm need to build a whole city? Nobody knows; everyone involved in the project has been dead and/or missing since before the turn of the century. But the deep rumors mention something called "Project Nightshine." What was the project? Why did it require a city be built? And does it have any connection to the song that Vic keeps hearing, or the algorithm that he keeps seeing out of the corner of his eye?

    The answer is that, in the 80's, STAR discovered a strange dimension known as the Nightshine. A harsh yet beautiful landscape of broken moons, deep canyons, and other aesthetics found in 80's album covers, STAR learned that this dimension possessed incredible technology and near limitless energy potential in the form of harnessed vibrational waves (yes, music). The ruler of this dimension, Evil Dragon, corrupted the STAR scientists who found him and had them begin building a portal to earth that Dragon and his forces could pass through. This was far easier said than done however, requiring far more power than a single Lab could provide as well as needing a huge "magic circle/ritual circuit" to complete. So STAR built Jump City; the city's power was tied into the Lab to fuel the portal and the street layout provided the correct "ley line alignments" needed. The corrupted STAR scientists were ready to open the portal and damn all of Jump City, burning it all up to bring the Dragon to earth, but at the last minute were stopped by a quartet of STAR employees (who happened to play in a band together). One of those members was locked in the Nightshine (and would become Ultralak) while the others disappeared to quiet lives....until the story demands that Vic hunt them down and find answers to his questions.

    As the book progresses and the Dragon is finally defeated, the Lab opens up completely again, and Jump begins to heal and improve as well, becoming less run down and more modern without sacrificing it's 80's cyberpunk aesthetic. So we get to see Vic have a positive impact on his setting and watch things develop and grow. Seems like a nice parallel to Vic's journey as a character as well as the real world advancement of technology since Vic's debut nearly forty years back. Y'all know I love my meta-commentary.

    Just a rough idea that still needs a lot of adjustment and work but I thought it was fun.
    Last edited by Ascended; 01-01-2021 at 12:18 PM.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  9. #9
    Extraordinary Member sifighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    I don't know about the "suit" but I like this logotype best

    330419._SX1280_QL80_TTD_.jpg

    Might as well ask. Slim Cyborg (this one) or Tank Cyborg? (Teen Titans cartoon)
    I personally subscribe to the theory that he can shift his appearance, but if I had any favorites it’s Ivan Reis’ DCYOU slim look.
    "It's fun and it's cool, so that's all that matters. It's what comics are for, Duh."
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by sifighter View Post
    I personally subscribe to the theory that he can shift his appearance, but if I had any favorites it’s Ivan Reis’ DCYOU slim look.
    Same here, he should be able to shift his appearance whenever he sees fit. I do think slim should be the default look.
    Reading List (Super behind but reading them nontheless):
    DC: Green Lantern, Red Hood, Far Sector, The Other History of the DC Universe, Truth and Justice
    Marvel: HiXmen, Miles Morales: Spider-Man, Immortal Hulk, Daredevil
    LionForge: Noble, Astonisher
    Image: Killadelphia, Bitter Root, Excellence
    IDW: TMNT: The Last Ronin
    Other: XOGeneSYS, Clock Striker, Is'Nana The Were-Spider, Yohance, EXO Wale Williams

  11. #11
    Astonishing Member dkrook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    I don't know about the "suit" but I like this logotype best

    330419._SX1280_QL80_TTD_.jpg

    Might as well ask. Slim Cyborg (this one) or Tank Cyborg? (Teen Titans cartoon)
    Definitely "slim" version at the very least. It would be amazing if DC got a clue and let the legacy be fulfilled by simply letting him evolve as the character should. Him bulky look is Stark contrast to his concept of being a man bonded with advanced technology and with a mother box mapping and understanding the human body. Ivan was spot on with Vic having synthetic "superskin" and shedding the bulky metal components is where our should be. A true bridge/bonding of AI and man. I hate the fact that a few gray beard geeks force Vic to be shackled to this victim who low key self hates who he is. This is especially problematic when considering the character is African American.

  12. #12
    Uncanny King-Kamalu lemonpeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkrook View Post
    Definitely "slim" version at the very least. It would be amazing if DC got a clue and let the legacy be fulfilled by simply letting him evolve as the character should. Him bulky look is Stark contrast to his concept of being a man bonded with advanced technology and with a mother box mapping and understanding the human body. Ivan was spot on with Vic having synthetic "superskin" and shedding the bulky metal components is where our should be. A true bridge/bonding of AI and man. I hate the fact that a few gray beard geeks force Vic to be shackled to this victim who low key self hates who he is. This is especially problematic when considering the character is African American.
    you hit the nail on the head. the self-hating aspect of this whole man v machine trope DC keeps forcing on him, unintentionally, comes off as veiled racial hatred; he literally hates the skin he's in. personally, I say it DC was smart they'll use the clout from Bitter Root and now Naomi to "justify" giving David F. Walker a prestige push on Cyborg. his take in Vic was my favorite take on the character on page, and I feel like he dig a good job moving Vic past hating his new self and questioning if he's even human and finding new internal conflict by having him grapple with the weight of being essentially more than human being. The natural progression of that is showcasing and sharing that excess of humanity with the world like any hero would. we never get to that phase with Vic and I think that would be the best way to show he's finally arrived as a hero and doesn't need to go back to doubting his existence for the umpteenth time.
    SIGNAL (Duke Thomas) is DC's secret shonen protagonist! his fandom wikia
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  13. #13
    Uncanny King-Kamalu lemonpeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    I don't know about the "suit" but I like this logotype best

    330419._SX1280_QL80_TTD_.jpg

    Might as well ask. Slim Cyborg (this one) or Tank Cyborg? (Teen Titans cartoon)
    I'm a big proponent of slim Vic because I like the idea of Vic being less about transforming and literally being the guns and tech all the time, and more about him inventing and then boomtubing in the suits and weapons and tools that suits the situation as need.
    SIGNAL (Duke Thomas) is DC's secret shonen protagonist! his fandom wikia
    I support militant Professor X
    • Manga: One Piece, My Hero, Mashle, Solo Leveling, Jujutsu Kaisen, GoH, Black Clover
    • DC: Other History of DC, Second Son, Gotham: Urban Legends, FS Gotham
    • Marvel: Immortal Hulk, Black Panther, X-books
    • Anticipated titles: MrM Source of Freedom, Static*, Hardware*, Naomi s2
    "power does not corrupt, power always reveals."

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkrook View Post
    Definitely "slim" version at the very least. It would be amazing if DC got a clue and let the legacy be fulfilled by simply letting him evolve as the character should. Him bulky look is Stark contrast to his concept of being a man bonded with advanced technology and with a mother box mapping and understanding the human body. Ivan was spot on with Vic having synthetic "superskin" and shedding the bulky metal components is where our should be. A true bridge/bonding of AI and man. I hate the fact that a few gray beard geeks force Vic to be shackled to this victim who low key self hates who he is. This is especially problematic when considering the character is African American.
    Not to mention as a physically disabled victim who relies on prosthetics to survive. Victor represents an interesting dichotomy that could really make people enjoy him as a character, especially as an allegory for several different groups (african americans, people with disabilities adapting to the change, how technology is becoming more ingrained into our livestyles, etc) and none of them are being see to it's fullest potentials because they want to use same tired tropes which comes off as more offensive than entertaining.

    People don't forever dwell on the trauma and loss when getting a new prosthetic limb, and having to adapt to their new normal. It's sad the same can't be said for Cyborg.

    YJ, Smallville, Doom Patrol, and Teen Titans are good example of how Cyborg may have the doubts and wish of being normal but that doesn't define his whole character. He still has adventures, still can find love and be an interesting character without playing on the same tropes.
    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    you hit the nail on the head. the self-hating aspect of this whole man v machine trope DC keeps forcing on him, unintentionally, comes off as veiled racial hatred; he literally hates the skin he's in. personally, I say it DC was smart they'll use the clout from Bitter Root and now Naomi to "justify" giving David F. Walker a prestige push on Cyborg. his take in Vic was my favorite take on the character on page, and I feel like he dig a good job moving Vic past hating his new self and questioning if he's even human and finding new internal conflict by having him grapple with the weight of being essentially more than human being. The natural progression of that is showcasing and sharing that excess of humanity with the world like any hero would. we never get to that phase with Vic and I think that would be the best way to show he's finally arrived as a hero and doesn't need to go back to doubting his existence for the umpteenth time.
    I desperately want someone like David Walker, Alex Sanchez or John Ridley or even Christopher Priest take charge on Cyborg and exploring his character. Cyborg is a character with a lot of storytelling potential and world building possibilities. Cyborg is a character who's been shown to be a formidable solo hero (Flashpoint, Doom Patrol), a hero who could bounce off the Justice League(Smallville, JL: Action, Geoff Johns run, Christopher Priest run), Doom Patrol, Metal Men, etc , someone who could be heavily connected with New Gods/Alien level adventures( YJ, JLO), and so much more. The fact that he was one of the seven in the DC opening credits for several movies really set his level for greatness. But editorial doesn't really see it until someone like Geoff Johns comes along to help.

    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    I'm a big proponent of slim Vic because I like the idea of Vic being less about transforming and literally being the guns and tech all the time, and more about him inventing and then boomtubing in the suits and weapons and tools that suits the situation as need.
    Agreed, or his technology adapting to the moment or situation. I prefer slim at his main form, but he bulks up or gets extra armor or protection when needed or even different weapons or technology, besides the sonic canon. Cyborg is a being who can adapt and evolve to fit any situation especially after being a hero who is a mix of New Gods technology and different tech both human and alien, creating someone extremely new that not even he is prepared for.

  15. #15
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ironman2978 View Post
    But editorial doesn't really see it until someone like Geoff Johns comes along to help.
    I wonder what the average profit/cost ratio is?

    I don't have a ton of faith in DC's previous managers or administrators; there was far too much talk from editors/managers letting their personal opinions influence their business sense for me to have a lot of trust in what they did. When you're so blinded by your own ideas that you ignore the data in your spread sheet, and then brag about it in interviews, you lost my respect.

    But I wonder what the risk assessments are like, if DC even bothers with such things? Putting someone like Priest on Cyborg is a no-brainer and you'd think it wouldn't take much to give a character like Vic a legitimate push and see some strong returns on that within a few years. So why doesn't it happen more often? Why is it that we're always waiting for some creator to knock it out of the park before management and editorial will dare any risk? Comics are supposedly a break-even industry where a mid-range book barely makes a profit, so maybe that's why we don't see publishers play it safe. And of course you gotta take the audience into account and comic fans are well known for hating anything new. But still, it seems to me that publishers limit themselves to the point it's detrimental, and "bad at business" can't be the only reason for it.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

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