BOOYAH: Cyborg Appreciation 2021

[Samm]

Titans has been around long enough to be a top level team, hasn't it. I mean, Marvel has many teams, so I think DC could use a few teams to help boost characters like Cyborg

Have two black heroes ever had prominent positions in the JL at once? I can't remember if that's happened.

The Titans are DC’s second biggest team and one of the most popular/iconic teams in comics! It’s a shame they’re not treated that way in comics because in outside media they’re legit! They should be DC’s X-Men! They also certainly have a lot of popular POC as members (Cyborg, Blue Beetle, Bumblebee, Static, Kyle Rayner, Aqualad...etc)

And yeah, Black Lightning, Vixen, John Stewart and Firestorm were all on the JL at the same time

[drbiii]

cyborg-jessica-cruz-odyssey.jpg

I'm curious what other people thought of the implied relationship developing between Vic and Jessica Cruz in Justice League Odyssey? It was really only implied, and almost made explicit in the last issue, but it was an idea that I loved and I hope it's explored by other writers in the future

[CosmiComic]

The Titans are DC’s second biggest team and one of the most popular/iconic teams in comics! It’s a shame they’re not treated that way in comics because in outside media they’re legit! They should be DC’s X-Men! They also certainly have a lot of popular POC as members (Cyborg, Blue Beetle, Bumblebee, Static, Kyle Rayner, Aqualad...etc)

And yeah, Black Lightning, Vixen, John Stewart and Firestorm were all on the JL at the same time

Good to know. I hope other PoC also get more prominence in other media

[MadFacedKid]

cyborg-jessica-cruz-odyssey.jpg

I'm curious what other people thought of the implied relationship developing between Vic and Jessica Cruz in Justice League Odyssey? It was really only implied, and almost made explicit in the last issue, but it was an idea that I loved and I hope it's explored by other writers in the future

I was honestly surprised it didn’t happen when they were on the main JL. They seemed around the same age and their circumstances werent to different. Jessica being afraid of the power she attained and scared of being controlled by the power ring and Cyborg having that whole Grid situation.

I was weirded out by the choices of trying to push her on either Barry or Bruce.

[Johnny]

I was weirded out by the choices of trying to push her on either Barry or Bruce.

The mindset must have been if she was paired with the more prominent characters, she would feel more prominent as well. Ironically, they must have had the same thing in mind when they put Cyborg in the League in the first place. "Let's surround him with prominent characters and that would accordingly make him feel more prominent too". When it kind of had the opposite effect because they botched the whole thing. It's sad. The character deserved and still deserves better.

[MadFacedKid]

The mindset must have been if she was paired with the more prominent characters, she would feel more prominent as well. Ironically, they must have had the same thing in mind when they put Cyborg in the League in the first place. "Let's surround him with prominent characters and that would accordingly make him feel more prominent too". When it kind of had the opposite effect because they botched the whole thing. It's sad. The character deserved and still deserves better.

I honestly agree with that type of thinking to an extent. I think when you put a character in the limelight whether that be in the premier team or in a premier book. You give the character a greater chance of catching on and growing more of a fan base then when you don’t. I’d argue a lot of the success for Aquaman in recent years was because of that.

Think about it. He and his world had a big part in Blackest Night and Brightest Day it for the most part is a GL story so it didn’t have to have anything to do with him but Johns gave him a pretty good setup with his inclusion. We got more Mera in blackest night which probably kicked off her popularity, we got some backstory with Aquaman, we lost Garth saw Tula again. Aquaman gets revived in Brightest Day we get a new Aqualad and a story not just for this new Aqualad but more insight on Mera and increase of world building for Aquaman.

In comes Flashpoint where Aquaman plays a big role fighting Wonder Woman.

In comes New52 Aquaman is a founding member of the JL and gets some cool moments justifying his spot on the Justice League. Throne of Atlantis happens tying in his popular series by Johns who gave him all this setup with the highly popular premier team of the DC universe Justice League.

I’d argue the push works but it all depends on who’s penning the push, the extent they go to with the push and if the fans are willing to take what they put out. I think Aquaman is a great example though showcasing it can work.

[MadFacedKid]

I also want to point out that I do think Cyborg got a big push and Johns tried to give him similar treatment to Aquaman but the reason(or reasons) it didn’t work.

1.) It was done too late. You could kind of tell they weren’t expecting to reboot the JL and change up the lineup. Until sometime before Flashpoint which Victor did have a big role in. But wasn’t the focus it was more of a Flash event and wasn’t something that could help establish that much of his core cast of characters when he wasn’t much of a solo character to begin with prior.

2.) I want to double down on the fact there wasn’t much too exactly work with cast wise with Cyborg he didn’t have the lore Aquaman did where I feel Johns took up a lot of previously established stuff from various Aquaman runs and the mythos to form New52 Aquaman. Cyborg for the most part was someone Johns would have to for the most part build from the ground up and he tried to do it in the Justice League book while writing a book that focuses on the entire team at the same time.

3.) The detractors. I’d argue given the first two things added onto the idea you had people upset with Cyborg even being on the JL or even more furious he was a founding member and their favorite or more preferred character wasn’t. You also had those furious he wasn’t on the Titans or that the Titans weren’t a thing and all of these people banded together weren’t really in support for the Cyborg the character initially blaming him for treatment of the Titans or that their favorite character wasn’t on the League

[Vordan]

cyborg-jessica-cruz-odyssey.jpg

I'm curious what other people thought of the implied relationship developing between Vic and Jessica Cruz in Justice League Odyssey? It was really only implied, and almost made explicit in the last issue, but it was an idea that I loved and I hope it's explored by other writers in the future

I could get behind it, they’re of a similar age. I’d want to see Jess and Vic’s mental states in regards to their heroics explored without more “am I man or a machine?” crap. But I’ll be honest I’m not sure how to approach it since Jess’ struggles with anxiety and depression are central to who she is.

I also want to point out that I do think Cyborg got a big push and Johns tried to give him similar treatment to Aquaman but the reason(or reasons) it didn’t work.

1.) It was done too late. You could kind of tell they weren’t expecting to reboot the JL and change up the lineup. Until sometime before Flashpoint which Victor did have a big role in. But wasn’t the focus it was more of a Flash event and wasn’t something that could help establish that much of his core cast of characters when he wasn’t much of a solo character to begin with prior.

2.) I want to double down on the fact there wasn’t much too exactly work with cast wise with Cyborg he didn’t have the lore Aquaman did where I feel Johns took up a lot of previously established stuff from various Aquaman runs and the mythos to form New52 Aquaman. Cyborg for the most part was someone Johns would have to for the most part build from the ground up and he tried to do it in the Justice League book while writing a book that focuses on the entire team at the same time.

3.) The detractors. I’d argue given the first two things added onto the idea you had people upset with Cyborg even being on the JL or even more furious he was a founding member and their favorite or more preferred character wasn’t. You also had those furious he wasn’t on the Titans or that the Titans weren’t a thing and all of these people banded together weren’t really in support for the Cyborg the character initially blaming him for treatment of the Titans or that their favorite character wasn’t on the League

I agree with your list but I’d also add that they didn’t give him a book at the start of the New 52 when EVERYONE else on the League got a book. Freaking Vibe got a book but not the lone black JL member? It’s fine if it wasn’t in the first wave, JL basically told his origin, but c’mon he should’ve gotten one, and if Johns wanted Vic on the League he should’ve been doing a mini for him or pushed for someone else to do something. Maybe he did, I dunno.

Vic was actually always slated to join the JL, originally Johns and Lee were going to relaunch JL (without rebooting) and would basically give the League a new origin. Then Hawkman (JSA rep) and Cyborg (Titans rep) would be joining the lineup. That was the original plan before Didio mandated a reboot.

[MadFacedKid]

Wasn’t it stated that Johns was holding off a book because he wanted to write it himself? I’d argue Johns could of been the best thing to happen to Cyborg if he actually followed through with it. I’d argue Aquaman is in the boat he’s in because of Johns not finishing the story he initially mapped out as well.

I feel like you couldn’t just have given Cyborg any writer at the start of the New52 which is the same thing with Aquaman. You kind of have to with those 2 characters build the brand and get readers interested in checking them out in comparison to the other 5 leaguers.

I definitely think the Titans rep thing would of worked out in Cyborg’s favor a lot more. While securing a connection to both teams. It always annoys me when I hear how good these unused plans are...

[Johnny]

I honestly agree with that type of thinking to an extent. I think when you put a character in the limelight whether that be in the premier team or in a premier book. You give the character a greater chance of catching on and growing more of a fan base then when you don’t. I’d argue a lot of the success for Aquaman in recent years was because of that.

Think about it. He and his world had a big part in Blackest Night and Brightest Day it for the most part is a GL story so it didn’t have to have anything to do with him but Johns gave him a pretty good setup with his inclusion. We got more Mera in blackest night which probably kicked off her popularity, we got some backstory with Aquaman, we lost Garth saw Tula again. Aquaman gets revived in Brightest Day we get a new Aqualad and a story not just for this new Aqualad but more insight on Mera and increase of world building for Aquaman.

In comes Flashpoint where Aquaman plays a big role fighting Wonder Woman.

In comes New52 Aquaman is a founding member of the JL and gets some cool moments justifying his spot on the Justice League. Throne of Atlantis happens tying in his popular series by Johns who gave him all this setup with the highly popular premier team of the DC universe Justice League.

I’d argue the push works but it all depends on who’s penning the push, the extent they go to with the push and if the fans are willing to take what they put out. I think Aquaman is a great example though showcasing it can work.

I think all of that happened because Aquaman was done right. There was clearly a gameplan for him. Being with the JL gives characters a good spotlight but it doesn't necessarily translate to a much higher level of prominence, even if they were founding members. I think Martian Manhunter is probably the best example of that. He's been there from the start, he's been surrounded by those other prominent characters from the very beginning and yet he's never felt as important to the DCU as they have. And J'onn was created earlier than both Barry and Hal mind you. People always have their opinions on which Flash or GL should be part of the Justice League but they still unanimously think there should always be a Flash or GL in it. You don't really hear that about J'onn despite that he's always been a fan-favorite character. I think when all is said and done, Vic will play a similar role. We could very well see him back with the JL at some point in the future, but much like with J'onn, he won't be one of those characters that everyone clamors to be there.

[Vordan]

I don’t remember if there was ever any confirmation that Johns called dibs, but it wouldn’t surprise me. He called dibs on Shazam and that was why the character was sort of forgotten after his origin.

[MadFacedKid]

I think all of that happened because Aquaman was done right. There was clearly a gameplan for him. Being with the JL gives characters a good spotlight but it doesn't necessarily translate to a much higher level of prominence, even if they were founding members. I think Martian Manhunter is probably the best example of that. He's been there from the start, he's been surrounded by those other prominent characters from the very beginning and yet he's never felt as important to the DCU as they have. And J'onn was created earlier than both Barry and Hal mind you. People always have their opinions on which Flash or GL should be part of the Justice League but they still unanimously think there should always be a Flash or GL in it. You don't really hear that about J'onn despite that he's always been a fan-favorite character. I think when all is said and done, Vic will play a similar role. We could very well see him back with the JL at some point in the future, but much like with J'onn, he won't be one of those characters that everyone clamors to be there.

My argument with the J’onn mention would all be on handling. Aquaman had a good setup he was on both the league and had his own title with major importance on both under Johns pen. I’d argue the combination of both writing the JL and penning a character on the team as well as linking an event with it helped Aquaman a lot. Ofcourse it’s not only on game plan but the execution of it all as well, and the fact Johns had a really good story to follow with it. It’s honestly hard for me to see any character failing given as much as Aquaman got under Johns initially. I honestly think if let’s say Martian Manhunter was put in that template let’s say his return from Blackest Night, he came back an Elemental alongside Aquaman in Brightest day and got his own story but let’s say it differs.

Instead of Atlantis vs The Amazons. You have Mars attacks Earth the people of the planet are overwhelmed Flash runs back to try and prevent this. J’onn gets major exposure in Flashpoint though.

Reboot happens he’s on the League with a book by the guy penning the league and we get a hyper clan story eventually in place of Throne of Atlantis. That runs alongside the JL book it’s hard for me to imagine none of the elevating J’onn especially if he gets all the animated and external media stuff that comes along with it. I think Steve Orlando’s run on MMH would of got a lot of attention if he was writing the main JL book at the time as well.

It’s all theoretical there’s no way of knowing exactly for sure, it’s always possible one character just generates more interest than the other. I feel like when you put a character in the spotlight it’s easy to start getting them to generate interest though if you do it right. I’d argue Kelly Thompson has been generating interest with her Captain Marvel run by doing stuff like having her fight the Avengers like Thor that grab people’s attention towards the Captain Marvel book. Or having her go off to a future with amalgam mainstream characters mixing by having children.

So I kind of get why writers have characters interact with more popular characters. In the grand scheme of things cause it does turn heads and it can be done in a good way if done right whether it’s a simple team up a versus or adding a character to the premier team. I think Bendis addition of Naomi to the JL is in the same vein whether it works is up in the air.

I think event books kind of do the same thing for the JL where it puts the spotlight on them, and that’s mainly why they’ve been the premier team cause there the guys who always handle the big threat.

[MadFacedKid]

I don’t remember if there was ever any confirmation that Johns called dibs, but it wouldn’t surprise me. He called dibs on Shazam and that was why the character was sort of forgotten after his origin.

I could be mistake so I wouldn’t take it as fact. I’ll see if I can find something stating it but I possibly got it off another poster complaining of the lack of a Cyborg book awhile back. I think it was mentioned the plan was to originally give Vic a book at the end of Forever Evil. Which would of made sense given he had a character arc of sorts in that event.

[Anthony Shaw]

cyborg-jessica-cruz-odyssey.jpg

I'm curious what other people thought of the implied relationship developing between Vic and Jessica Cruz in Justice League Odyssey? It was really only implied, and almost made explicit in the last issue, but it was an idea that I loved and I hope it's explored by other writers in the future

The more I think about it, Jess & Vic could have been DC's WandaVision.

[skyvolt2000]

You also had those furious he wasn’t on the Titans or that the Titans weren’t a thing and all of these people banded together weren’t really in support for the Cyborg the character initially blaming him for treatment of the Titans or that their favorite character wasn’t on the League

NOBODY blamed Cyborg-that abuse of the franchise was going on since 2005.

Now to piggy back on what Johnny said

The mindset must have been if she was paired with the more prominent characters, she would feel more prominent as well. Ironically, they must have had the same thing in mind when they put Cyborg in the League in the first place. "Let's surround him with prominent characters and that would accordingly make him feel more prominent too". When it kind of had the opposite effect because they botched the whole thing. It's sad. The character deserved and still deserves better.

This is what everyone was really mad about-you can NOT toss someone in a high profile book or team and do NOTHING with them. Something that KEEPS happening to mainly black characters. Which is why most appreciation threads for them are mainly pics, complaints and very little CURRENT story info.

When your flagship and top selling books that are assured shelf space in not just comic book stores but Barnes & Nobles and libraries. These are the books that are selling EVERYONE. Because everyone has access to them.

Books like Cyborg, Wonder Twins, Wildstorm, Adam Strange and others-it's a crap shoot with Barnes & Nobles having them in STOCK. I could go to any B&N and get Wildstorm Michael Cray trades. New 52 era Superboy, Supergirl, Aquaman, Batwoman and DCYou and Rebirth Cyborg? NO. In fact if it was NOT linked to the CW shows.....good luck.

When you poorly write a character who is suppose to be a lead or co-lead in those books-that is who is SELLING them to the public.

And this is made WORST when you are dealing with characters from two different franchise. See Storm. It does no good that Coates went out of his WAY to pitch a Storm book using Black Panther's title when her own franchise does not care for her.
So anyone interested in Storm based on the Panther books, got turned off by the X-books. And that has been a messed since the break up.