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  1. #286
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  2. #287
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcogginsa View Post
    He was in the Teen Titans cartoon so it’s unsurprising. Wasn’t TT more popular than JLU? Vic has always been one of DC’s most prominent black characters for virtue of being part of DC’s most prominent teams and not being a legacy.
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  3. #288
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    He was in the Teen Titans cartoon so it’s unsurprising. Wasn’t TT more popular than JLU? Vic has always been one of DC’s most prominent black characters for virtue of being part of DC’s most prominent teams and not being a legacy.
    I've never really compared the two, but the 2003 cartoon was pretty popular back in its day. That's been, by far, Cyborg's most impactful media representation and I think that partially influenced having him jump to the big leagues.

    Of course he was also in the Super Powers Team (which I think influenced Johns' creative decision to put him on the League) along with Firestorm so I think they were both seen, at the time, as DC's preeminent new and young heroes.

  4. #289
    Mighty Member Iconic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcogginsa View Post
    This is exactly what many of us knew. It was like DC made a concerted effort to rollback EVERY awesome thing David Walker and Ivan Reis brought in to advance Cyborg. Up until they came on, nothing was being done with him. As soon as Cyborg starts to build a brand, DC strips it all away. It was infuriating to watch in real time.

    And just when you think something mildly positive is happening again with the character, like the original script for Justice League Odyssey, THEY DO IT AGAIN! He was about to wear clothes. He was given a mildly better design. Seemed like a relationship was blooming. And then...removed from the leadership role to disappear into a “ping” role that amounted to maybe one panel every other month.

    I’d love to have Walker’s insight on what happened.

  5. #290
    Original CBR member Jabare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcogginsa View Post
    It was an internal market research analysis. DC executives had been high on Cyborg for years since they threw him into the Superfriends/Galactic Guardians. Unlike the created heroes Apache Chief, El Dorado, Samurai, and Black Vulcan. TV executives liked Cyborg because he wasn't a blatantly token character and actually came from the comics. There is a video floating around wherein some executives echo this sentiment. Probably around the launch of the New 52.

    The initial change they made with David Walker was a really big step, but the fact that DC backtracked so quickly was incredibly concerning. Beyond Cyborg's powerset that could be tailored to fit a myriad of storylines under a good writer, he has relateable touchstones in his character arc and he intersects with a lot of heroes in the DC Universe similar to Dick Grayson. DC really should have done more with his solo and kept it going longer. That's one of the things I admire about Marvel they've kept some comics running for a long time even when the sales weren't spectacular because they understand the comic isn't the endgame anymore. Don't get me wrong the story should be crafted simply for the comic because if you write it like you're prepping for a tv show or movie it usually doesn't do well. But comics are often R&D these days that animation and film draw from. That's the endgame. Feeding these giant streaming services putting out successful movies and tv shows that's the end game. Even video games if DC or Marvel ever get their acts together.


    But after 2017, I'm pretty sure DC has changed focus. The Justice League movie bombed and they cancelled Semper's run and DC's esentially ignored both Walker and Semper's runs with the character. Maybe if DC gets some dynamic new management things will change but right now I don't see it.
    The J-man

  6. #291
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iconic View Post
    This is exactly what many of us knew. It was like DC made a concerted effort to rollback EVERY awesome thing David Walker and Ivan Reis brought in to advance Cyborg. Up until they came on, nothing was being done with him. As soon as Cyborg starts to build a brand, DC strips it all away. It was infuriating to watch in real time.

    And just when you think something mildly positive is happening again with the character, like the original script for Justice League Odyssey, THEY DO IT AGAIN! He was about to wear clothes. He was given a mildly better design. Seemed like a relationship was blooming. And then...removed from the leadership role to disappear into a “ping” role that amounted to maybe one panel every other month.

    I’d love to have Walker’s insight on what happened.
    One of the great comic mysteries is exactly what happened with JLO and it's first issue that had to be completely scrapped.

    The book did end up promoting a POC character, just not the POC character everyone was expecting (Jessica Cruz).

  7. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iconic View Post
    This is exactly what many of us knew. It was like DC made a concerted effort to rollback EVERY awesome thing David Walker and Ivan Reis brought in to advance Cyborg. Up until they came on, nothing was being done with him. As soon as Cyborg starts to build a brand, DC strips it all away. It was infuriating to watch in real time.

    And just when you think something mildly positive is happening again with the character, like the original script for Justice League Odyssey, THEY DO IT AGAIN! He was about to wear clothes. He was given a mildly better design. Seemed like a relationship was blooming. And then...removed from the leadership role to disappear into a “ping” role that amounted to maybe one panel every other month.

    I’d love to have Walker’s insight on what happened.

    Reading this , despite knowing all of this for some time now, *still* causes an emotional stirring in me that goes beyond just comic book superheros.
    Don't complain. Create.

  8. #293
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    David F Walker

    If I had more space, I'd break down the comprehensive marketing study that was done years ago, which determined that Cyborg was the third most popular DC character at the time across all demographics and quadrants. Cyborg was a huge franchise waiting to happen.
    This is pretty interesting but let me try to say it another way "behind of Superman and Batman, Cyborg has been the 3rd popular DC character in media with fans of varying age and backgrounds". That is how my mind process that information and what that means to me DC just needs to stick with the character in comics at some point the right approach will work and he will have a successful run. My mind is also reading it as Cyborg does very good with young audiences and DC has no clue how to capitalize on that fact.

  9. #294
    Extraordinary Member Johnny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    David F Walker



    This is pretty interesting but let me try to say it another way "behind of Superman and Batman, Cyborg has been the 3rd popular DC character in media with fans of varying age and backgrounds". That is how my mind process that information and what that means to me DC just needs to stick with the character in comics at some point the right approach will work and he will have a successful run. My mind is also reading it as Cyborg does very good with young audiences and DC has no clue how to capitalize on that fact.
    Did they ever.

  10. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcogginsa View Post
    I’d definitely be curious to knowing what this time period was and who Cyborg beat out to be in the Top 3 most popular characters across “all demographics”. I definitely think there was moments that could and should of been capitalized on and DC tends to butcher opportunities they have to grow characters beyond what they are but Im skeptical on that statement claiming he was in the top 3 across all boards.

  11. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    David F Walker



    This is pretty interesting but let me try to say it another way "behind of Superman and Batman, Cyborg has been the 3rd popular DC character in media with fans of varying age and backgrounds". That is how my mind process that information and what that means to me DC just needs to stick with the character in comics at some point the right approach will work and he will have a successful run. My mind is also reading it as Cyborg does very good with young audiences and DC has no clue how to capitalize on that fact.
    Where is he getting all this information from though? He went from saying it was a “comprehensive market study” to saying “my mind” that’s a bit sketched.

  12. #297
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    it's obvious that Cyborg has more appearances and is more visible than probably any other DC Superhero currently. Currently is in ZSJL, the Doom Patrol and Young Justice. Still, Cyborg deserves his own tv show or Movie. I think that African American/Black and African fans of Cyborg want him to stand as a man besides Superman, Batman, Aquaman and not what some perceives as a robot. Some in the Black community fully embrace racial visualisation as a form of empowerment when it comes to Superheroes. When Cyborg was shown torn in half and on that medical slab literally with just his torso I would say that it was kind of upsetting. It was definitely upsetting to me. But I think that it's more than his manhood. It's about people wanting to see a Black Superhero whole and not broken next to Batman, Superman, Aquaman etc.. in all his glory. Maybe if ZSJL continues the Cyborg of the future in Zach's notes will be in the forefront since that Cyborg would be a digital God and able to make a human body for himself.

  13. #298
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    David F Walker



    This is pretty interesting but let me try to say it another way "behind of Superman and Batman, Cyborg has been the 3rd popular DC character in media with fans of varying age and backgrounds". That is how my mind process that information and what that means to me DC just needs to stick with the character in comics at some point the right approach will work and he will have a successful run. My mind is also reading it as Cyborg does very good with young audiences and DC has no clue how to capitalize on that fact.
    I feel like I underestimated how popular Khary Payton's Cyborg was. I mean, he's part of why "Booyah" is even a thing, but in-spite of his looks it seems like he was really popular.

  14. #299
    Astonishing Member John Venus's Avatar
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    He's the gold standard. I can't recall another adaptation that gave Cyborg that much love, character development, focus and bad ass moments. Just look at all the Cyborg focused eps, there is more versatility there than most comics featuring him.

  15. #300
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    He's the gold standard. I can't recall another adaptation that gave Cyborg that much love, character development, focus and bad ass moments. Just look at all the Cyborg focused eps, there is more versatility there than most comics featuring him.
    I feel like his focus season with Brother Blood isn't as warmly-regarded as much as the other seasons, but might just be how I remember it.

    I did like that Titans East two-parter.

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