BOOYAH: Cyborg Appreciation 2021

[CosmiComic]

That's not on them in this case. He's being marginalized because the actor publicly vowed to never work with the company again unless Walter Hamada was fired, and that ain't happening anytime soon. So it was either drop the character or recast, the latter of which would've just been a further PR dumpster fire (imagine the shit storm Fisher would be able to raise up by claiming he was fired and replaced for calling out workplace abuse).

Maybe they'll recast in a few years when the head has died down.

Didn't people at WB contribute to the problems though? I think Geoff Johns was involved, and WB tried to cover it all up with a fake frosty thr Snowman movie

[BradleyFan]

Cyborg's entire tenure on the Justice League was a textbook example of what not to do when trying to push a character. DC never really got behind him. And when writers did try to do things with him, they were shut down and their work was undone. There were so many interesting concepts that Cyborg's solo series tried to explore. Artificial Intelligence, the idea of machinery containing human qualities (which was touched upon in Waker's run), it could have explored having disabilities (like in Sempter's run). Detroit was taking center stage and could've been a mainstay in the DC Universe, much like Gotham or Star City.

But instead, all Cyborg represents now is how woefully ill-equipped DC was when it came to handling Cyborg's narrative, and now people have pretty much used Cyborg's lack of narrative agency and progress as sign of DC's antiblackness. And, honestly, they brought it on themselves. So...

I mean if you're going to push Cyborg to the forefront of your franchise (and mind you, when DC new 52 started Cyborg was the only hero of color getting a major push) you need to be sure you have a plan for success. It actually kind of reminds me of how badly Lucasfilms bungled Finn's storyline in Star Wars. What was supposed to be a shining example of inclusion is now just a constant reminder of Lucasfilms' neglect and covert biases. And it's going to take a long time for anyone to forget all the drama that has happened with Cyborg, and Ray Fisher, whether justified or not.

[Holt]

Didn't people at WB contribute to the problems though? I think Geoff Johns was involved, and WB tried to cover it all up with a fake frosty thr Snowman movie

That doesn't really matter in this case. He was ultimately the one who vowed he wasn't going to do the role again unless his specific demand (which was highly unrealistic) was met. He took his principled stance, and while that's admirable, they were still offering him the chance to return for the Flash movie.

[CosmiComic]

Cyborg's entire tenure on the Justice League was a textbook example of what not to do when trying to push a character. DC never really got behind him. And when writers did try to do things with him, they were shut down and their work was undone. There were so many interesting concepts that Cyborg's solo series tried to explore. Artificial Intelligence, the idea of machinery containing human qualities (which was touched upon in Waker's run), it could have explored having disabilities (like in Sempter's run). Detroit was taking center stage and could've been a mainstay in the DC Universe, much like Gotham or Star City.

But instead, all Cyborg represents now is how woefully ill-equipped DC was when it came to handling Cyborg's narrative, and now people have pretty much used Cyborg's lack of narrative agency and progress as sign of DC's antiblackness. And, honestly, they brought it on themselves. So...

I mean if you're going to push Cyborg to the forefront of your franchise (and mind you, when DC new 52 started Cyborg was the only hero of color getting a major push) you need to be sure you have a plan for success. It actually kind of reminds me of how badly Lucasfilms bungled Finn's storyline in Star Wars. What was supposed to be a shining example of inclusion is now just a constant reminder of Lucasfilms' neglect and covert biases. And it's going to take a long time for anyone to forget all the drama that has happened with Cyborg, and Ray Fisher, whether justified or not.

Frankly it's a bit pathetic. DC needs to do better all around promoting PoC heroes yet can't even promote the most well-known one.

That doesn't really matter in this case. He was ultimately the one who vowed he wasn't going to do the role again unless his specific demand (which was highly unrealistic) was met. He took his principled stance, and while that's admirable, they were still offering him the chance to return for the Flash movie.

It seems to me people can mess up a franchise yet still keep coming back. The corporate world likes to pretend it's progressive but there's still a lot of regressive bias.

[abetterday]

I wonder who's going to replace Ray Fisher as Cyborg now because it definitely seem that he's out as Cyborg. I just read on twitter that he wants to team up with Ice Cube to file a class action lawsuit against Warner Bros. Ice Cube also has a similar problem with Warner Bros regarding the Friday franchise.

[Robotman]

I wonder who's going to replace Ray Fisher as Cyborg now because it definitely seem that he's out as Cyborg. I just read on twitter that he wants to team up with Ice Cube to file a class action lawsuit against Warner Bros. Ice Cube also has a similar problem with Warner Bros regarding the Friday franchise.

No one is going to replace Cyborg. His film and comic book push is over. At least there’s still the Doom Patrol show.

[Johnny]

Years from now I don't want to look back at a character like Cyborg and think of him as wasted potential or example of how not to do something.
He deserves better than that.

[CosmiComic]

But why stop promoting him in the comics? It's not like he's not there anymore. As Johnny said, it would be wasted potential. They didn't stop using Hal Jordan after the Green Lantern movie failed, did they?

[chief12d]

The Titans are all background characters in their own book at this point, which is sad, since the Titans Academy kids suck.

Pretty much. I don’t think Vic is being uniquely marginalized, DC didn’t kill him off or systematically remove him from all mediums. They just put him back on a team that’s been creatively brain dead for some 15 years where basically all the characters not named Nightwing are husks of their former selves.

When was the last time Raven or Beast Boy were interesting characters tbh? This isn’t a Cyborg thing, him being back on the Titans wouldn’t be bad for his character if the brand was on the same upswing as the current X-Men. The problem is no one knows what the adult Titans should be doing. They have no mission statement, most of their villains are stale, the characters are stagnant.

The current book just tries to do a poorly done revamp of the Geoff Johns approach, which positions them as mentors to the next generation who are the real focus/agents of change in the series. The best way to fix Cyborg at this point is to fix the Titans, but I don’t see that happening until a Jonathan Hickman comes on the book and completely renovates the IP. Until then, Vic will be mired in mediocrity along with the other Titans.

[abetterday]

I think it's a mixed of racism and that DC do not want the Teen Titans to over shadow the Justice League or Batman, Superman, WW. The Teen titans are probably DC's most popular team since they have been on tv every single day for the past 7-10 years. Plus, comics journalism is dead. There are no real serious comics journalist or paper/website that will sit down with DC and ask them the hard questions like why did they feel the need to cancel Cyborg and blame him for the failure of the Justice League. And why they haven't address racist images in Wonder Woman and Shazam comic books from the 40s and yet they get 2-3 movies.

[Holt]

I wonder who's going to replace Ray Fisher as Cyborg now because it definitely seem that he's out as Cyborg. I just read on twitter that he wants to team up with Ice Cube to file a class action lawsuit against Warner Bros. Ice Cube also has a similar problem with Warner Bros regarding the Friday franchise.

Nobody, most likely. Flash will most likely do at least a soft reboot of the franchise, and if/when they attempt to do another Justice League movie in the future, they'll most likely have John Stewart and Supergirl fill the diversity quota instead.

[king81992]

I think it's a mixed of racism and that DC do not want the Teen Titans to over shadow the Justice League or Batman, Superman, WW. The Teen titans are probably DC's most popular team since they have been on tv every single day for the past 7-10 years. Plus, comics journalism is dead. There are no real serious comics journalist or paper/website that will sit down with DC and ask them the hard questions like why did they feel the need to cancel Cyborg and blame him for the failure of the Justice League. And why they haven't address racist images in Wonder Woman and Shazam comic books from the 40s and yet they get 2-3 movies.

DC has A LOT of had questions that need to be addressed and answered, but that's a subject for another thread. I will say that their obsession with not wanting the TT(or anyone else) to over shadow the JL(Batman to be more specific) is short sighted and dumb, especially when Batman has been a failure of a hero and human being for years now.

[Vordan]

But why stop promoting him in the comics? It's not like he's not there anymore. As Johnny said, it would be wasted potential. They didn't stop using Hal Jordan after the Green Lantern movie failed, did they?

Hal was a huge Comics seller at the time, just behind Batman, and Johns was the CCO at the time so he could protect Hal. Cyborg has never been a huge seller and there’s nobody in editorial who loves him the same way. But also Ray called out the suits and tried to get Hamada and Emmerich fired, and that’s when WB closed ranks and basically kicked him out. The suits look at Cyborg as a toxic character now I’m sure.

Plus lots of creators don’t care about Victor, didn’t want him on the League in the first place, and think the Titans is where he belongs. I expect John Stewart to be the next character they push as DC’s premiere black character, so he’ll take Vic’s place, maybe Static as well given his movie coming up. So don’t expect them to highlight Vic in a solo capacity any time soon, or ever again really to be frank.

[CosmiComic]

Hal was a huge Comics seller at the time, just behind Batman, and Johns was the CCO at the time so he could protect Hal. Cyborg has never been a huge seller and there’s nobody in editorial who loves him the same way. But also Ray called out the suits and tried to get Hamada and Emmerich fired, and that’s when WB closed ranks and basically kicked him out. The suits look at Cyborg as a toxic character now I’m sure.

Plus lots of creators don’t care about Victor, didn’t want him on the League in the first place, and think the Titans is where he belongs. I expect John Stewart to be the next character they push as DC’s premiere black character, so he’ll take Vic’s place, maybe Static as well given his movie coming up. So don’t expect them to highlight Vic in a solo capacity any time soon, or ever again really to be frank.

I dislike this concept though. Why does there have to be a "premiere Black character"? Is there a premiere White one?

And frankly, with how popular the Titans are outside of comics, why does DC fear them overshadowing the JL? Especially Batman. He's great but he's had over 80 years. Give the focus to someone else.

It's also kind of sad a character needs a corporate executive to be a fan themselves in order to get support

[chief12d]

Hal was a huge Comics seller at the time, just behind Batman, and Johns was the CCO at the time so he could protect Hal. Cyborg has never been a huge seller and there’s nobody in editorial who loves him the same way. But also Ray called out the suits and tried to get Hamada and Emmerich fired, and that’s when WB closed ranks and basically kicked him out. The suits look at Cyborg as a toxic character now I’m sure.

Plus lots of creators don’t care about Victor, didn’t want him on the League in the first place, and think the Titans is where he belongs. I expect John Stewart to be the next character they push as DC’s premiere black character, so he’ll take Vic’s place, maybe Static as well given his movie coming up. So don’t expect them to highlight Vic in a solo capacity any time soon, or ever again really to be frank.

Yea there was a chance at Cyborg being salvaged as a solo property if Fisher got the opportunity to serve as a major supporting character in the Flash movie. DC was in the process of looking to spin-off their tentpole movies with HBO Max shows and smaller movies and if Cyborg was well received he most likely would've been a recipient of some kind of solo project.

But the character is seen as radioactive on the big screen with the commotion Fisher caused and probably won't get another live action depiction until we get the Titans in the movies, which doesn't seem likely anytime soon. I imagine DC will center their diversity (in terms of black heroes) efforts on John Stewart as your Leaguer-level black hero with Static as your resident street-leveler, both of whom can be pushed as solo characters. Vic as the most visible black member of DC's second most prominent team wouldn't be a bad thing if that team was actually properly managed and had consistently great content.