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  1. #586
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom X View Post
    ^I'll just point to my spoiler post above (and Rakurai's). Out of all the deep issues to focus on, it's in pretty poor taste to just highlight this one.
    I totally understand where you're coming from. I would have liked a reference to Jean's murdered family, but I am happy with what I got. Also, I think this is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to what of Laura's past and internal life he's going to be exploring.
    Last edited by Mercury; 10-13-2021 at 06:20 AM.

  2. #587
    Incredible Member Starfish's Avatar
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    Fully agreed with Kingdom X and Rakurai's comments, and I'd like to add that another part that didn't sit well with me is the insinuation that spoilers:
    a telepath could fix Laura by sharing Synch's memories with her, even though that wouldn't restore the memories of the now dead Vault-Laura that she's missing. But apparently a man's memories of that woman are just as good?
    end of spoilers

  3. #588
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    I liked it. Duggan focused on the most recent emotional and mental challenge she is facing because clearly...as some have stated earlier, she's already faced her past demons and nightmares head on, she's not afraid of or crippled by them, so technically there's very little for Nightmare to draw from there. This is something new and troubling for her, there's no need for current writers to go rehashing stuff that's already been explored.

    I could understand if the story itself was bad but...it wasn't. Duggan actually gave us some insight into how she's been feeling about what happened and is happening between her and Ev whereas before we only saw Ev's perspective. And that's a plus.

    It seems like some of you pre-wrote the story in our heads long before the issue was released and now are disappointed that it didn't go quite as you imagined it should/would. Sorry?
    My Summer rain. My rooftop in Japan. My quiet in the storm. *cries* Al Ewing is GOD...Praise His name! Uplift Him in song! Glorify His works!

  4. #589
    Fantastic Member Rakurai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    I liked it. Duggan focused on the most recent emotional and mental challenge she is facing because clearly...as some have stated earlier, she's already faced her past demons and nightmares head on, she's not afraid of or crippled by them, so technically there's very little for Nightmare to draw from there. This is something new and troubling for her, there's no need for current writers to go rehashing stuff that's already been explored.

    I could understand if the story itself was bad but...it wasn't. Duggan actually gave us some insight into how she's been feeling about what happened and is happening between her and Ev whereas before we only saw Ev's perspective. And that's a plus.

    It seems like some of you pre-wrote the story in our heads long before the issue was released and now are disappointed that it didn't go quite as you imagined it should/would. Sorry?
    It's fine if you liked it, but not everybody has to. I don't see how she has her past more under control then Scott or Jean, yet they had their nightmares more complex.

    It's personal opinion, while story wasn't bad for you it doesn't mean it wasn't for other people. She has no way of knowing what happened in Vault, so why she fights Vault!Laura? She mentions not wanting to love Synch, but where is it coming from? Why suddenly seeing stuff through Synch memories would mean she'd love him?
    I do agree that it's good we finally see a bit of her perspective, it just don't make sense.

    It seems like you see the character differently, then we? Sorry, but the last sentence it really rude and undermining. Maybe as a woman myself, with troubled past and lot's of baggage I don't enjoy my favorite X-Woman being only about romance and stuff? She doesn't feel like herself in this comics.

  5. #590
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    I could understand if the story itself was bad but...it wasn't. Duggan actually gave us some insight into how she's been feeling about what happened and is happening between her and Ev whereas before we only saw Ev's perspective. And that's a plus.
    My thoughts exactly!

  6. #591
    Astonishing Member Kingdom X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    I liked it. Duggan focused on the most recent emotional and mental challenge she is facing because clearly...as some have stated earlier, she's already faced her past demons and nightmares head on, she's not afraid of or crippled by them, so technically there's very little for Nightmare to draw from there. This is something new and troubling for her, there's no need for current writers to go rehashing stuff that's already been explored.
    I think I mentioned this earlier, but I don't really buy it when Duggan rehashed Scott's origins and the DPS in the same issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    I could understand if the story itself was bad but...it wasn't. Duggan actually gave us some insight into how she's been feeling about what happened and is happening between her and Ev whereas before we only saw Ev's perspective. And that's a plus.
    A story can be good and still not treat a specific character particularly well. I wasn't gonna go in the review thread and go on a Laura rant, that's just not my style and the issue does have positives, but I think it's perfectly valid to vent frustration over character treatment in a character appreciation thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    It seems like some of you pre-wrote the story in our heads long before the issue was released and now are disappointed that it didn't go quite as you imagined it should/would. Sorry?
    I don't want to speak for others, but as I noted earlier, I think it's fine to do stuff with the Vault and Ev. It's most relevant to this era and obviously has a place in this book. My issue is that we don't get anything else. Not even a single panel that showcases other aspects of the character.

  7. #592
    Mighty Member Malachi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom X View Post
    ^I'll just point to my spoiler post above (and Rakurai's). Out of all the deep issues to focus on, it's in pretty poor taste to just highlight this one.
    Page count and that part of storytelling economy. Still it's very myopic to just focus on one part of her because that plot is the only thing she is doing in X-men.

    She feels like a very flat character who revolves around a man. She needs his memories to define herself.

    Duggan said in a interview before that he likes to take big swings with characters(the question was about Laura) and he didn't really care what people think. This doesn't read like a big swing. More like he's not trying at all.

  8. #593

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    While I appreciate Laura being included in what a very Jean & Scott focused issue, I find the heavy emphasis on a single element to be disappointing. It also reinforces the point that Laura was only included in the team for this purpose. I will stick with the book hoping to have Laura's actual character explored and developed in some meaningful way.

  9. #594
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    And I get that, KingX...I do. But look at it from the writers' perspectives...why would they want to rehash something that have already been addressed and told better by a previous writer? It certainly makes more sense to, as you rightly said, go forward with what's most relevant and current to the character in this era and in this book. And that is her lost time and memories of the Vault and what happened with Ev.

    To your first point...Maybe she's just not as haunted by her past as Scott and Jean are? And going by what I read in Taylor's book that seems plausible to me and why her past wouldn't be at the forefront of her fear.
    Last edited by Devaishwarya; 10-13-2021 at 06:51 AM.
    My Summer rain. My rooftop in Japan. My quiet in the storm. *cries* Al Ewing is GOD...Praise His name! Uplift Him in song! Glorify His works!

  10. #595
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    And I get that, KingX...I do. But look at it from the writers' perspectives...why would they want to rehash something that have already been addressed and told better by a previous writer? It certainly makes more sense to, as you rightly said, go forward with what's most relevant and current to the character in this era and in this book. And that is her lost time and memories of the Vault and what happened with Ev.

    To your first point...Maybe she's just not as haunted by her past as Scott and Jean are? And going by what I read in Taylor's book that seems plausible to me and why her past wouldn't be at the forefront of her fear.
    That is LITERALLY what was done with Cyclops and Jean in that issue: All of it was old stuff that had been covered long ago. You can't have it both ways.

  11. #596
    Astonishing Member Kingdom X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    And I get that, KingX...I do. But look at it from the writers' perspectives...why would they want to rehash something that have already been addressed and told better by a previous writer? It certainly makes more sense to, as you rightly said, go forward with what's most relevant and current to the character in this era and in this book. And that is her lost time and memories of the Vault and what happened with Ev.

    To your first point...Maybe she's just not as haunted by her past as Scott and Jean are? And going by what I read in Taylor's book that seems plausible to me and why her past wouldn't be at the forefront of her fear.
    It's definitely a possibility and in future issues, I'll look out for whether that's what Duggan is trying to say with the character. I personally find it hard to believe because Laura is a character so closely linked with issues such as *trigger warning* spoilers:
    sexual assault, self-harm, childhood abuse, and general self-loathing
    end of spoilers + all the assassin stuff. In my experience (sans assassination stuff obviously) those are generally things that someone may heal from, but still carry with them to some degree.

    I'm with you that not every Laura story has to be or should be about those things. I'm not writing off the series or Duggan, but I can't help but feel a little disappointed, that when presented with an opportunity to delve into her "deepest fears and nightmares", Duggan didn't even nod to any of the characters defining moments.
    Last edited by Kingdom X; 10-13-2021 at 09:56 AM.

  12. #597
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    I liked it. Duggan focused on the most recent emotional and mental challenge she is facing because clearly...as some have stated earlier, she's already faced her past demons and nightmares head on, she's not afraid of or crippled by them, so technically there's very little for Nightmare to draw from there. This is something new and troubling for her, there's no need for current writers to go rehashing stuff that's already been explored.

    I could understand if the story itself was bad but...it wasn't. Duggan actually gave us some insight into how she's been feeling about what happened and is happening between her and Ev whereas before we only saw Ev's perspective. And that's a plus.

    It seems like some of you pre-wrote the story in our heads long before the issue was released and now are disappointed that it didn't go quite as you imagined it should/would. Sorry?
    Duggan didnt really give us Laura's perspective. She had no voice in this issue. All we had was Nightmare's thoughts on her dream and he is an unreliable narrator

  13. #598
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Duggan didnt really give us Laura's perspective. She had no voice in this issue. All we had was Nightmare's thoughts on her dream and he is an unreliable narrator
    That's the big problem: We don't truly have Laura's voice on ANY of it.

    The entire relationship during the Vault arc was from Synch's perspective, and she was just a prop to give Synch development. And then that iteration got fridged so Synch could angst over it.

    And this is just Nightmare's observations while screwing with her head.

  14. #599
    Incredible Member healed1337's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambaryerno View Post
    The entire relationship during the Vault arc was from Synch's perspective, and she was just a prop to give Synch development. And then that iteration got fridged so Synch could angst over it.

    And this is just Nightmare's observations while screwing with her head.
    I skimmed through Laura's scene in X-Men 4, realized that in what appeared to be a character-focused issue, all we get is an outside perspective from a villain on what might be going on in Laura's head, regarding an event I didn't care much for. It's not just the lack of Laura having any real meaning in the last few years, nor is it her terrible characterization. It feels like lately, Marvel's been taking all of my favourite characters and systematically dismantling everything I like about them, shoving them into the background, or both.

    So my break from comics continues. Still haven't bought one single comic since 2019, and I used to pick up between 8 and 12 a week.

  15. #600
    Ultimate Member Fokken's Avatar
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    The humble brag of consuming content without paying. Vroom Vroom.

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