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  1. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev9 View Post
    Am I alone in wishing she came up with her own codename instead of calling herself Wolverine?(or being called that) Like for one it ain't original and in story she wants to chart her own path but seems to be in Logan's shadow, so if her experience/mutation/augmentation is so similar/nigh identical to his already do we really even need to do likewise with the name? I mean there could be other names that one could come up with like 'Bloodblade' or 'Rawclaw' if X23 is boring.I find Wolverine just unimaginative honestly.
    I'm still an advocate for Talon.

  2. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev9 View Post
    Am I alone in wishing she came up with her own codename instead of calling herself Wolverine?(or being called that) Like for one it ain't original and in story she wants to chart her own path but seems to be in Logan's shadow, so if her experience/mutation/augmentation is so similar/nigh identical to his already do we really even need to do likewise with the name? I mean there could be other names that one could come up with like 'Bloodblade' or 'Rawclaw' if X23 is boring.I find Wolverine just unimaginative honestly.
    The problem is that Logan is alive and using the name. I tink it worked on all new wolverine, now I'm not sure. The way that they made her the spendable Wolverine to be gone for a long time was awful

  3. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambaryerno View Post
    I'm still an advocate for Talon.
    Wasn't there a copyright problem or something?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    The problem is that Logan is alive and using the name. I tink it worked on all new wolverine, now I'm not sure. The way that they made her the spendable Wolverine to be gone for a long time was awful
    IMHO, it's pretty much the same situation as the Hawkeyes and a heckuva lot more logical then the Spider-Men.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  4. #319
    Mighty Member Nazrel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    IMHO, it's pretty much the same situation as the Hawkeyes and a heckuva lot more logical then the Spider-Men.
    Clint casts a far smaller shadow then Logan, and Kate was at far less risk of having their identity subsumed by it.
    Context is king.

    X-23's most basic surface level characteristic that any idiot should grasp: Stoicism.
    I don't demand that her every minor appearance be a nuance in-depth examination of her character, but is it to much to ask she be written in Archetype?! This is storytelling 101! If you want people to stay invested in a character, you need to, at the bare minimum, write them such a way that they can plausibly be believed to be the same character!

  5. #320
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    The best case would be if she was just Laura, without any codenames. Unfortunately superheroes comics must have codenames for every single character.

  6. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nazrel View Post
    Clint casts a far smaller shadow then Logan, and Kate was at far less risk of having their identity subsumed by it.
    Maybe?

    Quote Originally Posted by mesjarch View Post
    The best case would be if she was just Laura, without any codenames. Unfortunately superheroes comics must have codenames for every single character.
    Frankly, I wonder if she should use the "Wolverine" codename in universe, but have her solo series marketed under the "X-23" name.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  7. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    Wasn't there a copyright problem or something?



    IMHO, it's pretty much the same situation as the Hawkeyes and a heckuva lot more logical then the Spider-Men.
    Hawkeyes are okay imo because they don't have secret identities.Wolverines are okay but Logan will always overshadow Laura.Also I can see Wolverine being more of a mantel since the name was given to him by the people atWeapon X(If I remember correctly).Spider-men is stupid af.They both have masks and Spider-man is not a mantle in the 616(yet).Miles needs to get back to his world.It made sense in the 1610 since he was carrying a legacy but this World has a Spider-man and a much better one at that(both in the MU and irl).That is why they give him different names in adaptations like Kid arachnid(Ultimate Spider-man TV series) and Spin(The new comic run for Kids).Also Spider-man is in his late twenties whereas all other legacy heroes are much older.Sorry for the rant but they need to send miles back to the 1610.They ruined his entire arc and purpose in bringing him to the 616.

  8. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    Hawkeyes are okay imo because they don't have secret identities.
    How does no secret identity make a difference?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    Wolverines are okay but Logan will always overshadow Laura.Also I can see Wolverine being more of a mantel since the name was given to him by the people atWeapon X(If I remember correctly).
    In general, the original always overshadows the legacy, even if the legacy is the more worthy character (looking at you, Hal Jordan).

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    Spider-men is stupid af.They both have masks and Spider-man is not a mantle in the 616(yet).Miles needs to get back to his world.It made sense in the 1610 since he was carrying a legacy but this World has a Spider-man and a much better one at that(both in the MU and irl).That is why they give him different names in adaptations like Kid arachnid(Ultimate Spider-man TV series) and Spin(The new comic run for Kids).Also Spider-man is in his late twenties whereas all other legacy heroes are much older.Sorry for the rant but they need to send miles back to the 1610.They ruined his entire arc and purpose in bringing him to the 616.
    Only read the Ultimate-centric comics with Miles before 616 and honestly, I feel that Miles a good idea that was weak in execution. (Long story short, Into the Spider-Verse was what it should've been all along.)
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  9. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    How does no secret identity make a difference?



    In general, the original always overshadows the legacy, even if the legacy is the more worthy character (looking at you, Hal Jordan).



    Only read the Ultimate-centric comics with Miles before 616 and honestly, I feel that Miles a good idea that was weak in execution. (Long story short, Into the Spider-Verse was what it should've been all along.)
    In universe and IRL it confuses people,specially in universe.It's okay when we can just say Clint or Kate but Spider-men is just horrible.
    I don't know much about the lanterns.Could you elaborate?

    Also it worries me how much they are pushing Miles. onto us.They already gave him a film and a a solo video game.There are so many characters who need would be better for this like Luke,Blue Marvel,Monica.Even legacy characters like the new Cap are better because they were good characters before they had a title.Miles only got popular because they shoved him in the mini that was to focus on the aftermath of Peter's death.

    I read them too.They were fine imo but he only works in the 1610.His entire thing is that the world needs Spider-man(and heroes in general because the Ultimates and X-men are/were way worse than their 616 counterparts and 1610 had less heroes in general specially after Ultimatum).His character is constructed in a way that can only work when Peter is either dead or in the worst time of his life or dumbed down.I loved ITSV but one peter was dead and the other was broken.It would never work with a well/avg-functioning Pete.In their team-ups Pete misses simple shots and can't handle anything.I wrote all my grieviances in another post and will post them here.If you wish to read them I have put them below






    I like Miles fine, but he's just a box-ticker for me, he's going to be Peter without the growth virtually forever if Marvel can help it. I'm waiting for him to nip off to the Ultimate Universe, that's his true home and I was more invested in him back when he was there.

    This!

    Spiderman in the 1610 was a great character and his entire series was overall pretty good(they downplayed his strength and smart's to play into the "beaten up kid" factor, rest was great).Miles intro was pretty good but I'd argue it's because of status quo of 1610.A world where avengers are drunken idiots and X-men are full on edgy soap opera with a dead Spiderman allows for a great street level origin story.Even with all that and a legacy title I found his following series "lackluster".

    He was a quippy teenage Spiderman who has trouble balancing his dual identities which is something we had gotten before(and arguably better) for both 616(old school) and 1610(modern) versions.

    The differences are while 616 peter really didn't have anyone to confide in and was considered a flake by his friends and has felt like a disappointment whereas Miles not only had Ganke but rest of 1610 Pete's supporting cast who gave him a "you go girl" attitude.Spiderman was always the underdog while Miles was eagerly accepted by the Ultimates, Nick Fury, Gwen, May and MJ .

    The only good stuff we get is the origin and spider man no more arc which is a copy of Spiderman's arc and arguably his best movie(they even ripped off the internal monologue).This is made even worse by the fact that now both arc's have lost a lot of their meaning as he got his mother back and this world Spiderman is alive.

    Also while Spiderman's supporting cast is timeless to this day.Miles's supporting cast changes drastically preodically.His most iconic relation comes from alternate universe Gwen(which gross btw) .Having a bff in Ganke also hurts the story since we never get the "alone in the world" vibe from miles's stories.It works fine in films(although I would rather not have it in) but really doesn't in comics.Even prowler is a mantle from Pete(I don't know about Davis though).That and he is still a cliche twist even if it is well executed.

    Miles has also been pushed into the champions whilst Peter got time to develop as a individual character and didn't join the Avengers(annual 3 if I remember correctly)

    Also a pattern I have noticed is that for Miles to work we always have to push Pete down.This is true for all medium's.In Spiderverse we have one dead Pete and one of the if not the lowest point in his life(understand that this is to say that Peter B. Parker is not absolute perfection,which he is, the point is for the story to work we need Pete to be in a bad spot so as to validate miles character arc).In comics we get 2 Spider-men series which show peter as an inexperienced goofball of a man-child.This can be seen in the fight scenes of Miles and Peter and Miles and Peter vs Taskmaster(1610).

    Also sharing the same name on the same Earth is just confusing.In the show Ultimate Spiderman he is called Kid Arachnid(he is actually likeable in the show).Bringing him into the 616 was stupid as is and has really made the character much worse.

    Also giving him a Spidey-sense was something I disliked because it is popular because of it's uniqueness and giving it to other characters like Miles and Cindy detracts from that.The main problem is not only does he have all the Spider powers he also has invisibility and venom blast.I think invisibility was a good choice but would work better if it replaced spidey-sense instead being an add-on.The venom blast is the physical incarnation of the infamous Bendis force and allows him to beat people he has no business like 1610 Dr Doom , 616 Blackheart and 616 Spiderman.Although they have reigned in this ability in the recent run.

    Spiderman has had many iconic moments in the first ten years(Origin,If this be my destiny,Death of Gwen Stacy, Death of green goblin, sinister six and the black suit saga to name a few) while Miles barely has one(I don't think there are any but maybe I missed something ) even though he has had much more of a spotlight and content as compared to Pete.

    I just feel like there are so many more characters that I would love to be given this attention rather than Miles.Blue marvel,Shang Chi(when done right),Blade,Monica Rambeau, Misty Knight.Hell even Cindy and Miguel have so much potential.

    I'll close this off by saying that Miles has a lot in common with Pete (but I feel Pete's stories show these) and what they have different Pete usually has better.This makes me feel like Miles is more of a box-ticker(as said above) rather than a good character.

  10. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    In universe and IRL it confuses people,specially in universe.It's okay when we can just say Clint or Kate but Spider-men is just horrible.
    Doesn't really bother me, frankly; there's always context to who's who.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    I don't know much about the lanterns.Could you elaborate?
    Think about it; there are several "main" Green Lanterns in terms of characters who's had solo series and being the main focus of the franchise, but it always comes back to Hal Jordan and the others (which I frankly think are way more interesting) get demoted to extra and occasional guest star.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    Also it worries me how much they are pushing Miles. onto us.They already gave him a film and a a solo video game.There are so many characters who need would be better for this like Luke,Blue Marvel,Monica.Even legacy characters like the new Cap are better because they were good characters before they had a title.Miles only got popular because they shoved him in the mini that was to focus on the aftermath of Peter's death.
    If people weren't receptive to Miles, he wouldn't have lasted. Remember when Marvel wanted Cindy Moon to be everyone's new favorite? Despite putting her in everything, readers as a whole didn't care and she's kinda off to the side. Conversely, readers wanted Spider-Gwen (a character intended to be a one-shot) and now she's the breakout female Spider that Marvel had been trying to make. Maybe other characters "deserve" the spotlight that Miles is taking, but I think it's safe to say that he's getting it because there's demand for it. (Also, the movie and game were made by different companies, and the film studios are starting to use obscure characters in the franchise, so it makes sense that a popular character like Miles would get a movie. At least it makes a heckuva lot more sense then Morbius and a Spidey-less Venom series.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    I read them too.They were fine imo but he only works in the 1610.His entire thing is that the world needs Spider-man(and heroes in general because the Ultimates and X-men are/were way worse than their 616 counterparts and 1610 had less heroes in general specially after Ultimatum).His character is constructed in a way that can only work when Peter is either dead or in the worst time of his life or dumbed down.I loved ITSV but one peter was dead and the other was broken.It would never work with a well/avg-functioning Pete.In their team-ups Pete misses simple shots and can't handle anything.
    Maybe? (Course, since Ultimate Peter is back in the Ultimate Universe last we saw, it'd just be the same problem all over again.)
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  11. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    Doesn't really bother me, frankly; there's always context to who's who.



    Think about it; there are several "main" Green Lanterns in terms of characters who's had solo series and being the main focus of the franchise, but it always comes back to Hal Jordan and the others (which I frankly think are way more interesting) get demoted to extra and occasional guest star.



    If people weren't receptive to Miles, he wouldn't have lasted. Remember when Marvel wanted Cindy Moon to be everyone's new favorite? Despite putting her in everything, readers as a whole didn't care and she's kinda off to the side. Conversely, readers wanted Spider-Gwen (a character intended to be a one-shot) and now she's the breakout female Spider that Marvel had been trying to make. Maybe other characters "deserve" the spotlight that Miles is taking, but I think it's safe to say that he's getting it because there's demand for it. (Also, the movie and game were made by different companies, and the film studios are starting to use obscure characters in the franchise, so it makes sense that a popular character like Miles would get a movie. At least it makes a heckuva lot more sense then Morbius and a Spidey-less Venom series.)



    Maybe? (Course, since Ultimate Peter is back in the Ultimate Universe last we saw, it'd just be the same problem all over again.)
    To each his own I guess.
    I see your point for the lanterns.
    Miles as you said had a great premise and an big first appearance in a very famous comic.They have taken almost everything that made him-him from comics and movies and games have different ideas altogether.I know there is a demnad for it,I just don't want a lantern situation where they undermine the real deal for the new flavour of the week(first cindy now miles) permanently.
    Bringing him back was dumb.Kill him or just kill Miles(not gonna happen I know).maybe they can put one of them on an alternate earyh team like the web warriors

  12. #327
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    Steering this conversation back to Laura, my copy of the Omnibus arrived in the mail today. That is one thick book!

  13. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambaryerno View Post
    Steering this conversation back to Laura, my copy of the Omnibus arrived in the mail today. That is one thick book!
    And they've made thicker ones. Been reading though my copy as I've had time to spare.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  14. #329
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    This week had Laura on one panel in Marauders and even there she was behind a person she was talking with.

    Next week has X-Men #21 with new X-Men team reveal so she should have more page time in it.

  15. #330
    Mighty Member Malachi's Avatar
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    She is in the big party page in X-force. Bottom right corner.

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