X-23 Appreciation 2021

[Grunty]

I think the colors can work for her under the guise of the "Next Wolverine", but i wonder if it would work better for her to have more visible changes to the pattern or the outfit in general?

Basicly retain the colors as legacy element (similar to Gabby's outfit) but change the style somewhat to be closer to Laura's nature.

[Nazrel]

Dark colors always suited Logan more too, for the same reasons. But the explanations given over the years were that Xavier wanted the X-men to look like superheroes to the public and a more recent one was that the bright yellow draws enemy fire and thus protects others around him who don’t have healing factors. So the same logic would apply to Laura if she’s going to be Wolverine. Just saying.

Those are the trademark colors. If he’s not wearing them, maybe she should? It would be plausible anyway.

Those are in universe excuses made to support the meta objective of maintaining the iconic coloring; but from a meta level it's far more important for the character to make the mantle their own, then be defined by the mantle; the character needs to maintain their own distinct identity.

I had enough of thoughtless and lazy writers thinking they should write her like Logan but **** the first time this happened, because that's how "Wolverine" acts.
Playing it to that mentality's a bad idea.

[Jackraow21]

I guess what I’m saying, to put it simply, is that the iconic coloring — whether brown/tan or blue/yellow — is like branding. If she’s Wolverine, wearing the branding reinforces that. If she’s in more generic black/gray colors she looks like female Batman and isn’t rocking the Wolverine brand. And, yeah, I’m talking about to the external world. The readers (and consumers of cartoons, movies, video games, etc., where she might appear as Wolverine as well). The in-story reasons are indeed just to explain it and have it make sense in the Marvel Universe as well. Hope that makes sense.

If she’s going to wear something totally different and have her own distinct identity, maybe don’t call her Wolverine. Just a thought. But I think you kind of have to pick one direction or the other. Trying to do both at the same time seems to be working at cross purposes. At least to me.

It’s either “Laura is a Wolverine and fighting to be a better superhero than her father” or “Laura wants to be her own person independent of her father.” I just don’t see how you can try to do both with the character at the same time. Maybe I’m overthinking it. Ha.

[WebLurker]

It’s either “Laura is a Wolverine and fighting to be a better superhero than her father” or “Laura wants to be her own person independent of her father.” I just don’t see how you can try to do both with the character at the same time. Maybe I’m overthinking it. Ha.

Why couldn't those be the same things?

[Jackraow21]

So she wants to get out of Wolverine’s shadow... by calling herself Wolverine? Just seems a little contradictory to me I guess. IMO they’re parallel tracks. Wanting to be a better superhero is the constant I suppose. But wanting to be a better Wolverine versus wanting to be a better totally distinct character is the nuanced difference in my view. Again, just my opinion.

[BlackDragon98]

Just found this forum, so here's my take on X-23 over the years.

Innocence Lost: Excellent, but sad as ****.

Target X: Excellent, and badass as hell (especially her fight with Logan where she uses tactics against him) but bittersweet

NYX: Depressing, but a logical stage in her character progression

Uncanny X-Men: Awful, but the most forgivable, given that she's only been around for a couple years at this point.

New X-Men: Excellent, especially the Helix and Kimura getting her memory wiped by Emma. I kinda hated Emma for what she did to Laura in the beginning though NGL.

X-Force: The High Water Mark of Excellence! Super Badass! Mike Choi's art was the cherry on top.

X-23 One Shot: Pretty nice, though I didn't really like the art. NYX squad reunion was cool.

X-23: Good, but Majorie sank the Helix ship in a pretty bad way and that pissed me off. Otherwise pretty good, especially her and Jubilee. Art kind of made Laura seem a bit older than she was though.

Avenger's Academy: Started out strong, but started going sour towards the end.

Avenger's Arena: This is where everything started going bad. Laura was OOC.

All New X-Men: Exponential drop in quality. I wish Prof. Xavier could show up at my door and purge all memory of ANXM from my mind.

Logan Legacy: Okay, confirmed something about Laura that we all pretty much knew.

Wolverines: Awful. It was hyped up so much but then it turned out to be a big "Subvert Expectations". Extremely convoluted plot, lots of OOC.

All New X-Men 2.0: Even worse than the Bendis dumpster fire. I wish Prof. Xavier, Jean Grey, and Emma Frost would all collectively show up at my door and purge all memory of ANXM 2.0 from my mind.

All-New Wolverine: great idea with terrible execution. It literally took all the pre-established stuff about Laura being super-tactical and a master military strategist and threw it out the airlock, into a sun. Orphans of X was a lame rip-off of the Red Right Hand. Laura gave off suburban soccer mom vibes at the very beginning, which was incredibly cringy. There was almost no background info on Old Woman Laura (I assumed it was like the supervillain collective mega-attack in Old Man Logan but the heroes had advanced intel and managed to avert disaster) so I was pretty confused about what the heck was going on.

X-Men Red: IMO it was a continuation of All-New Wolverine, but more meh.

X23 2018: It was render completely pointless by the whole Krakoa revival thing. As usual; good idea, terrible execution.

Fallen Angels: A dumpster fire on par with ANXM and ANXM 2.0. Need I say more?

So what do y'all think?

Agree or disagree?

[Rakurai]

So she wants to get out of Wolverine’s shadow... by calling herself Wolverine? Just seems a little contradictory to me I guess. IMO they’re parallel tracks. Wanting to be a better superhero is the constant I suppose. But wanting to be a better Wolverine versus wanting to be a better totally distinct character is the nuanced difference in my view. Again, just my opinion.

I see what you mean, but I believe Laura sums it up well:
Kinney.jpg

She can be both, especially when Logan was gone, and she both wanted to conserve his memory and stay herself. Just like we can do, looking at our parent, taking parts of what we see, mastering them, yet being our own person. That would be simillar with Banshies, Spider-Mans, Hawkeyes. Logan also spent his fair share of time in his X-Force black/grey uni.

I'm also here, team black/grey, I think those colours suit her well (with addition of red). Next amazing Wolverine costiume is X-Men 5 by R. B. Silva, I hope we see nore of it in the future.

[Jackraow21]

But you’re kind of making my point. What was she wearing during that period, and in fact in the very panel where she says “I’m Laura Kinney. I’m X-23. And I’m Wolverine.”

[Rakurai]

But you’re kind of making my point. What was she wearing during that period, and in fact in the very panel where she says “I’m Laura Kinney. I’m X-23. And I’m Wolverine.”

Oh, maybe I didn't really understood the conversation before, my bad.
I feel that with either of her Wolverine costiumes she's still in between, in her transition from Letter-Number to a hero (in her own way).
Still, the biker black/grey costium is the best for me, I'd love to wear it myself, as a hero (or not )

Off the topic, there was a thing I didn't quite enjoy about All-New, and that's no-killing policy.
My favourite idea is what Laura told Mettle back in Avengers Academy
X-23 PHILOSOPHY.jpg

[Ambaryerno]

Oh, maybe I didn't really understood the conversation before, my bad.
I feel that with either of her Wolverine costiumes she's still in between, in her transition from Letter-Number to a hero (in her own way).
Still, the biker black/grey costium is the best for me, I'd love to wear it myself, as a hero (or not )

Off the topic, there was a thing I didn't quite enjoy about All-New, and that's no-killing policy.
My favourite idea is what Laura told Mettle back in Avengers Academy
X-23 PHILOSOPHY.jpg

Except to quote a particular running gag: These are more guidelines than actual rules. She WILL kill if she's left with no other option, (IE Kimura, and she WAS willing to kill Chandler in the Tamaki book) but she's made it a last resort and prefers to deescalate or find a non-lethal solution first. Case in point with the Brood. That's one thing which sets her apart from Logan, who tends to snikt first and sort it all out afterwards.

[Rakurai]

Except to quote a particular running gag: These are more guidelines than actual rules. She WILL kill if she's left with no other option, (IE Kimura, and she WAS willing to kill Chandler in the Tamaki book) but she's made it a last resort and prefers to deescalate or find a non-lethal solution first. Case in point with the Brood. That's one thing which sets her apart from Logan, who tends to snikt first and sort it all out afterwards.

Fair point, but not really what I meant. Both Kimura and Chandler were her enemies, not that much directly to protect innocent from villians situation.
By how was it played we didn't see much oportunities to see such action of course. That might be more of stateing it so often at the beginning of All-New, instead of showing the changes through time after Secret Wars. Still, just my opinion, noone needs to agree with it.

[Mia]

Just found this forum, so here's my take on X-23 over the years.

Innocence Lost: Excellent, but sad as ****.

Target X: Excellent, and badass as hell (especially her fight with Logan where she uses tactics against him) but bittersweet

NYX: Depressing, but a logical stage in her character progression

Uncanny X-Men: Awful, but the most forgivable, given that she's only been around for a couple years at this point.

New X-Men: Excellent, especially the Helix and Kimura getting her memory wiped by Emma. I kinda hated Emma for what she did to Laura in the beginning though NGL.

X-Force: The High Water Mark of Excellence! Super Badass! Mike Choi's art was the cherry on top.

X-23 One Shot: Pretty nice, though I didn't really like the art. NYX squad reunion was cool.

X-23: Good, but Majorie sank the Helix ship in a pretty bad way and that pissed me off. Otherwise pretty good, especially her and Jubilee. Art kind of made Laura seem a bit older than she was though.

Avenger's Academy: Started out strong, but started going sour towards the end.

Avenger's Arena: This is where everything started going bad. Laura was OOC.

All New X-Men: Exponential drop in quality. I wish Prof. Xavier could show up at my door and purge all memory of ANXM from my mind.

Logan Legacy: Okay, confirmed something about Laura that we all pretty much knew.

Wolverines: Awful. It was hyped up so much but then it turned out to be a big "Subvert Expectations". Extremely convoluted plot, lots of OOC.

All New X-Men 2.0: Even worse than the Bendis dumpster fire. I wish Prof. Xavier, Jean Grey, and Emma Frost would all collectively show up at my door and purge all memory of ANXM 2.0 from my mind.

All-New Wolverine: great idea with terrible execution. It literally took all the pre-established stuff about Laura being super-tactical and a master military strategist and threw it out the airlock, into a sun. Orphans of X was a lame rip-off of the Red Right Hand. Laura gave off suburban soccer mom vibes at the very beginning, which was incredibly cringy. There was almost no background info on Old Woman Laura (I assumed it was like the supervillain collective mega-attack in Old Man Logan but the heroes had advanced intel and managed to avert disaster) so I was pretty confused about what the heck was going on.

X-Men Red: IMO it was a continuation of All-New Wolverine, but more meh.

X23 2018: It was render completely pointless by the whole Krakoa revival thing. As usual; good idea, terrible execution.

Fallen Angels: A dumpster fire on par with ANXM and ANXM 2.0. Need I say more?

So what do y'all think?

Agree or disagree?

Yeah I pretty much agree with all you wrote. Except :

Avengers Academy, I read the first issue with her in it. And promptly put it back on the shelf. I am supposed to believe that an introverted person like Laura who feels tremendous shame and trauma by her childhood is going to spill her life story to a bunch of strangers?

The Old Woman Laura was cool and actually comes across as how I see her eventually ending up. In some kind of major leadership position. She's not Logan who just is made for sitting on a porch whittling and drinking whisky. Kyle and Yost wrote as a young woman with purpose. She was born to be a Queen .

The best treatment of Laura (and hence me being a super fan) is by her two creators and Marjorie Liue.

[BlackDragon98]

Yeah I pretty much agree with all you wrote. Except :

Avengers Academy, I read the first issue with her in it. And promptly put it back on the shelf. I am supposed to believe that an introverted person like Laura who feels tremendous shame and trauma by her childhood is going to spill her life story to a bunch of strangers?

There was that funny scene where she puts on her unimpressed face when Hercules gets naked. And the part where she told Mettle about her willingness to kill when necessary. Otherwise it was pretty bad.

The Old Woman Laura was cool and actually comes across as how I see her eventually ending up. In some kind of major leadership position. She's not Logan who just is made for sitting on a porch whittling and drinking whisky. Kyle and Yost wrote as a young woman with purpose. She was born to be a Queen .

The best treatment of Laura (and hence me being a super fan) is by her two creators and Marjorie Liue.

Old Woman Laura was interesting, but I felt like they could have done it differently and expanded more on the backstory about what happen in that TL. From what I can see, it seems that the villains planned an all out attack like the one they did in Old Man Logan but someone tipped the heroes off and instead of a massacre the heroes managed to turn the tide (at great cost though, as Julian was confirmed KIA and other heroes were though to be killed).
I would have like to see the great big war from Laura's POV, like how we saw her POV in X-Force.

And I will agree that her best runs were with Kyle/Yost and Majorie Liu. Though I still haven't forgiven her for sinking the Helix ship.

[Dthirds3]

Is Bellona still in jail ?

[Ambaryerno]

Is Bellona still in jail ?

I honestly don't know. I don't think it's ever been said what happened to her after Secret Empire in the main 'verse.