Wally West: The Flash Appreciation 2021

[Hol]

ID Crisis was weighty, because of what flowed out of it, in fairness.

Both are pure garbage, though. Judging which is worse is really a scale of inches, isn't it? HiC's poor treatment of mental health, ID Crisis' sexist story telling. ID Crisis did kind of set the stage with broad stroke story telling with regards to mystery, that HiC used ("I knew how to screw up Bruce and Barry, never gonna say how!"

What was sexist about IDC? That there was a female rape victim?

[The Cool Thatguy]

What was sexist about IDC? That there was a female rape victim?

Sue's rape was retroactively inserted as a red herring, none of the women involved had more than a few lines, if that (Zee, who did the mindwipes, said virtually nothing) and in the end, the real killer was Jean Loring, who went crazy to bring Ray back to her.

[Hol]

Sue's rape was retroactively inserted as a red herring, none of the women involved had more than a few lines, if that (Zee, who did the mindwipes, said virtually nothing) and in the end, the real killer was Jean Loring, who went crazy to bring Ray back to her.

Well I disagree that these things make the story sexist but thanks for clarifying.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Well I disagree that these things make the story sexist but thanks for clarifying.

What, you need a confession from Brad? lol

*edit*

Also, I'd add that treating Firehawk, who fought the damn Anti-Monitor, as some brain dead idiot doesn't help either

[Hol]

What, you need a confession from Brad? lol

*edit*

Also, I'd add that treating Firehawk, who fought the damn Anti-Monitor, as some brain dead idiot doesn't help either

I honestly just don't think any of the examples you listed above, whether they are singular or in the aggregate, make the story sexist.

And I think we have very different perceptions of events if you thought that Firehawk was treated like a brain dead idiot. Ralph spoke to her with respect. He referred to her as a pup I am guessing because his character is supposed to be older than her.

[The Cool Thatguy]

I honestly just don't think any of the examples you listed above, whether they are singular or in the aggregate, make the story sexist.

And I think we have very different perceptions of events if you thought that Firehawk was treated like a brain dead idiot. Ralph spoke to her with respect. He referred to her as a pup I am guessing because his character is supposed to be older than her.

Combined treatment of women as nothing but objects for the men to angst about and have no agency themselves is sexist, sorry.

And Ralph may have spoken to Firehawk with respect, but his narration/thought bubbles clearly said that he was there assisting on a stakeout so she didn't get killed.

Firehawk. Who fought in the Crisis. Against the Anti-Monitor.

And the story was terrible even without the sexism, frankly.

[PennyDreadful]

Combined treatment of women as nothing but objects for the men to angst about and have no agency themselves is sexist, sorry.

And Ralph may have spoken to Firehawk with respect, but his narration/thought bubbles clearly said that he was there assisting on a stakeout so she didn't get killed.

Firehawk. Who fought in the Crisis. Against the Anti-Monitor.

And the story was terrible even without the sexism, frankly.

None of the female characters were first-person narrators either. Let's not forget that.

Allegedly the story came into being because someone higher up at DC said, "We need a rape."

I think Linkara put it best: rape shouldn't just be a plot device you throw into a story. Just like trauma and mental health aren't things that can be tossed in without considering the implications. If what you say is true, King had no interest in addressing mental health in the superhero community. Sanctuary was just there to get a bunch of superheroes together to be killed. And sadly, no one in editorial put the brakes on.

[John Venus]

Sue's rape and subsequent death, Jean Loring being the killer and her mental breakdown and Zatanna's mind wipes were all means to an end. Even though they are key drivers in the story, the story isn't about them. Everyone else gets more agency and it's all about driving their story arcs and furthering their greater universal narrative. We never hear Sue Dibney's perspective on her rape and what the heroes did about it, Jean Loring being a killer comes out of nowhere and is later used as justification to turn her into a two dimensional villain and no two writers could agree on Zatanna's motivation on the mind wipes. Was she a young, naive Leaguer goaded into it by the older members or did she gleefully enjoy mind wiping people?

[Hol]

Combined treatment of women as nothing but objects for the men to angst about and have no agency themselves is sexist, sorry.

And Ralph may have spoken to Firehawk with respect, but his narration/thought bubbles clearly said that he was there assisting on a stakeout so she didn't get killed.

Firehawk. Who fought in the Crisis. Against the Anti-Monitor.

And the story was terrible even without the sexism, frankly.

I don't think any of the women in IDC were treated like objects. Sue was treated like a victim but not an object. And the other female characters may not have had as big parts as Ollie, Bruce and Wally but they certainly weren't treated like objects.

His narration box did say that. He was looking out for a colleague. That's all. Just because she was final battle against the Anti Monitor doesn't mean she can't get killed from some thugs. How many times has a Flash gotten knocked out or shot. It happens. He just had her back.

As far as the story being terrible well that is relative. I loved it. And know many others that did. I think Brad got so many of my favorite characters voices right. He gave Wally some great moments standing up to Oliver. And the scene with Tim and Bruce racing to try and save Jack Drake had me on the edge of my seat.

But to each his own. I feel like I live on a different planet as people who like the Snyder JL movie so taste is relative.

[Dred]

If Sue was not treated like an object, what were her thoughts in the story? What did she do as opposed to what was done to her?

Sue's role in Identity Crisis is textbook fridging, woman as an object writing. You can't have a better example besides bringing up a minor female character, raping them, and killing them, all for the purposes of the story rather than its purpose for her and...to make the man she was romantically involved with suffer. The only way it could be worse is if they also treated her as a sexual object, I suppose, but they already had their hands full with the rest of it.

[WallyWestFlash]

Is Jack Herbert drawing the next Flash issue? He posted this. Looks like Jay and the Ray from the end of last issue.
If so Im super excited. Love his art.

20210429_104826.jpg

[Frontier]

Is Jack Herbert drawing the next Flash issue? He posted this. Looks like Jay and the Ray from the end of last issue.
If so Im super excited. Love his art.

20210429_104826.jpg

So I guess we're getting a JSA/Freedom Fighters team-up?

[WallyWestFlash]

So I guess we're getting a JSA/Freedom Fighters team-up?

Was the Ray around the WW2 era with the JSA? I know he was on Earth X with the other FF members.

[Digifiend]

Why is the TV show logo on there?

No, Ray isn't a JSA member. He was actually briefly with Young Justice, and was there to commiserate with Superboy and Impulse when their solo books, like his, were cancelled. He actually debuted in his own book in 1992, so Ray's involvement with the Freedom Fighters only came later.

[Frontier]

Was the Ray around the WW2 era with the JSA? I know he was on Earth X with the other FF members.

Continuity-wise I think the classic Freedom Fighters were circa-WW2 in Post-Crisis.

Starman's sister was the original Phantom Lady, if I remember right.