Wally West: The Flash Appreciation 2021

[Waterfall]

Wally actually reacted in a pretty natural way (especially for someone from that era) and ultimately understood that Piper was his friend and it didn't matter who he loved.

And Wally became more confortable about it when Piper presented his new boyfriend. For the 80s-early 90s this was extremely progressive, especially how that was handled after it (see Northstar coming out a year later which was a big deal at the time despite of how poorly it was handled).

Piper's boyfriend in ML run was introducedclose to ending. He was completely chill and supportive of Piper in Waid's era. And his relationship with Linda made him much much endearing.

[Rakzo]

Piper's boyfriend in ML run was introducedclose to ending. He was completely chill and supportive of Piper in Waid's era. And his relationship with Linda made him much much endearing.

At that point Waid was working with the development that Messner-Loebs concluded so it was easy for him.

[WallyWestFlash]

At that point Waid was working with the development that Messner-Loebs concluded so it was easy for him.

What do you have against Waid?

Yes, Messner-Loebs wrote a great Wally and really developed him and also might have set up some stuff that Waid expanded on but Waid also evolved Wally tremendously and added a lot of his defining traits and mythos (obviously.)

So I dont see what the point is to elevate one over the other. You might prefer one above the other but it's pretty hard to totally invalidate one as having contributed nothing to Wally.

[Rakzo]

What do you have against Waid?

Yes, Messner-Loebs wrote a great Wally and really developed him and also might have set up some stuff that Waid expanded on but Waid also evolved Wally tremendously and added a lot of his defining traits and mythos (obviously.)

So I dont see what the point is to elevate one over the other. You might prefer one above the other but it's pretty hard to totally invalidate one as having contributed nothing to Wally.

Nothing against Waid (aside from issues with his run), just stating facts.

[Frontier]

I think Wally is definitely one of those characters where consecutive, great, runs really build up the character and his world so he becomes as multi-faceted and strong a character and lead as he could possibly become.

[Spider-Ham]

Nrama: Why did you choose Wally, who seems cured of his omnipotence, as sort of the everyman who gets the explanation of all the new DCU architecture?

Snyder: Because I think he's a character who a lot of people love, I love as well, as a Flash. And yet he's been really elastically pulled in different directions over the last year to try and make him something darker and almost more substantive in a cosmic way then he was originally intended.

I think those are great risks to take, but we really felt at this point that he's a character that we wanted to return to his roots because it's something different than you've seen him. You haven't seen him in that iteration in a while, and we have really big plans for him that I can't reveal yet, but that are in Infinite Frontier that deposit him as the kind of restorative character of the story.

For us, he's someone whose displacement was a big part of 'Rebirth.' He represented in a lot of ways the legacy and the history that was missing that was then brought back through 'Rebirth.' But since 'Rebirth,' he's kind of been moved around a lot and he's taken a lot of different shapes. So, putting him back where he's meant to be at least in this moment for us was a way of saying some things now are back to being grounded, familiar, and excitingly classic.

Then other things about both his mission, his role in the DCU, and other characters around him are taking on brand new roles as well. It's that same thing we believe in, honestly, with Infinite Frontier, which is a mix of the big hearty comfort food everyone that's been a long-time fan wants to see, and then tweaking it to make it something you haven't quite tasted before.

I have to say, I’m really excited now.

[Dred]

Nothing against Waid (aside from issues with his run), just stating facts.

You are not stating facts. You are stating your preferences.

I have to say, I’m really excited now.

Snyder also said Wally would have a big role in Death Metal and nothing came of that besides a wet fart. So don't assume too much.

[Digifiend]

Death Metal #7 was fine.

I can’t wait to see what it means for Wally, it’s great to see him being an important part of this new era.

Well, Williamson said he wasn't done writing speedsters. And if Infinite Frontier is an ongoing series, and it's about the Totality team from the end of Death Metal, then that means he'll be writing Wally!

The weird part of Death Metal is they didn't use this as an excuse to bring the heroes killed in HiC back to life. Like, everyone die in the last battle against the army of the Batman Who Laughs.

For what i understand about the upcoming Future State Titans, Roy is still dead. Why they didn't ressurected everyone with the reality altering shanenigans?

They actually did resurrect some people as part of the multiverse restoration, but didn't say who. So some of the HIC casualties may in fact be back.

[Rakzo]

You are not stating facts. You are stating your preferences.

The "jerk with a heart of gold" personality started with Messner-Loebs. That's not a preference, that's a fact.

[Dred]

The "jerk with a heart of gold" personality started with Messner-Loebs. That's not a preference, that's a fact.

Well meaning Jerk originates with Wolfman if anything. Or even Baron. Wally was a brash, and sometimes selfish, hero with either of them as well. Heck I think if you really want to get down to it it has its origins in Haney's Teen Titans.

[Waterfall]

Nothing against Waid (aside from issues with his run), just stating facts.

Except that your opinions are not facts at all. Waid's inclusion of Linda as a love interest changed Wally for better. He still kept his personality flaws but he was no longer irritating anymore.

If you don't agree with this, well then that's just your opinion.

[Rakzo]

Well meaning Jerk originates with Wolfman if anything. Or even Baron. Wally was a brash, and sometimes selfish, hero with either of them as well. Heck I think if you really want to get down to it it has its origins in Haney's Teen Titans.

Yeah but he was hardly likable during those days. Wolfman's Wally was a mopey ******* and Baron's Wally was a blatant jerk with money.

Messner-Loebs was when he started to get actually likable, thus "jerk with a heart of gold".

Except that your opinions are not facts at all. Waid's inclusion of Linda as a love interest changed Wally for better. He still kept his personality flaws but he was no longer irritating anymore.

If you don't agree with this, well then that's just your opinion.

Well, he was never irritating during Messner-Loebs' run, most of the flaws from those days sadly disappeared after (and no, I'm not talking about "I will never be as good as Barry" which he already overcome towards the end of it, I'm talking about the other complex aspects of his personality).

[Dred]

Yeah but he was hardly likable during those days. Wolfman's Wally was a mopey ******* and Baron's Wally was a blatant jerk with money.

Messner-Loebs was when he started to get actually likable, thus "jerk with a heart of gold".



Well, he was never irritating during Messner-Loebs' run, most of the flaws from those days sadly disappeared after (and no, I'm not talking about "I will never be as good as Barry" which he already overcome towards the end of it, I'm talking about the other complex aspects of his personality).

He was certainly likable in Haney's day. He was a brash, inconsiderate doofus of the group but he was funny and joked and heroic like any Silver Ager. And a lot of people clearly liked him in Wolfman's run despite Wolfman's own distaste.

I think you're trying to split some non-existent hairs to back an opinion you have and state it as fact. I mean the fact that you're using the word "likeable" in any way and stating that a character's likeability is a fact is farcical. That's legitimately just your opinion.

And one I even generally agree with. I personally wouldn't enjoy Wally until WML's run, too (Haney's TT, while novel and cute, isn't something I'd read out of its own context and particularly enjoy due to how dated it is). But the premise you're stating isn't necessarily true.

There's probably, out there in the wide world, some big NTT or Baron era Wally fans. Maybe a bit old to be found on the internet in any number, though.

[BohemiaDrinker]

That "jerk with a heart of gold" portrayal that Wally gets most of the time in media, that's all thanks to Messner-Loebs.

So yeah, Messner-Loebs' voice is Wally's voice.

Eeeehhhh, no.

Wally does tend to get a characterization closer to Messner Loebs in other media. That's true. Specially true since Barry came back.

But comics Wally? The assumed "correct" take is Waid's. You may not like him, and you may not like his run, and hell, he would be the first to say that yes, he did develop on some things set up by Loebs, and some of those things both did together. But Morrison's JLA Wally? That's Waid. The Wally people clamored for for the last 10+ years? Waid. Half of the personality Barry gets in the TV show, that's Waid Wally. The speed force? Waid. The Flash familly? Waid. Damn, even the Dick/Wally dynamic is probably traceable to Waid - and I know, you miss Chunk, but Dick/Wally just makes sense. (Also, they're adults and it's not a competition, but whatever).

Loebs did some great things. He's there with the greats. But concerning the Flash, Waid is up there with Kanigher, Infantino, Fox and bates as one of the more influential and long-lasting influences in the Flash franchise, period. And concerning Wally, he's unparalleled. Loebs doesn't come close, neither does Johns (as much as he tries to force his way into it).

And that's just it: the Wally that resonates most with most people is Waid's Wally.

[Rakzo]

Eeeehhhh, no.

Wally does tend to get a characterization closer to Messner Loebs in other media. That's true.

... Yes, that's what I meant.

And one I even generally agree with. I personally wouldn't enjoy Wally until WML's run, too (Haney's TT, while novel and cute, isn't something I'd read out of its own context and particularly enjoy due to how dated it is). But the premise you're stating isn't necessarily true.

Well, I'm willing to concede it as "generally agreeable opinion".