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  1. #811
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    That's an overtly pessimistic take on thing. I've pointed previously about how nothing always stays the same in pop culture.

    Smallville had a 10 year long run, yet most Superman adaptations still do their own thing and pull very little from it. They might reference Clark and Lex being friends (which is pulled from the Silver Age) but none of their other ideas; Clark having a long friend ship with Lois, cave Jor-El, deep friendship with Oliver Queen, meteor freaks, Clark fighting most of his villains as a teenager and forming the Justice League all well before Clark put on the costume and became Superman for real have ever made it into other adaptations.

    Also how many Batman shows have we gotten where they rehash the same villains? Why couldn't there be multiple adaptations of Flash villains?

    Did anybody expect something like Batman: The Brave and the Bold to happen after decade and a half of a dark,broody, Frank Miller-influenced Batman? Or Captain America and Iron Man to become pop cultural icons? Or The Boys being given a tv show and becoming so popular that casual viewers reference it? Remember when Marvel replaced Iron Man with teen Tony or when they turned him into a fascist in Civil War only to back track once his movie was a hit?

    Justin Hartley played Green Arrow first on Smallville but he's all but replaced by Stephen Amell in the public's eye as the Green Arrow.

    Plus, I think people are getting sick of Barry's entire gimmick being that he messes up the timeline. All we need is a good adaptation starring Wally West that puts his character to the fore front and respects his mythos and we can leave Johns version of Barry in the dust.
    Listing a slew of Batman adaptations is the opposite of encouraging.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    Nothing says that both Wally and Wallace can't co-exist. They are both so different that their only similarity are their names. Ideally; Wally as main Flash (who is either mixed or black), Wallace as Kid Flash and Bart Allen as Impulse.

    In fact, you could even justify benching Barry for a minute again in favor of a truly diverse Flash franchise.

    They have a lot more similarities than their names. And those similarities are the ones that matter for adaptations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Waterfall View Post
    I don't get being this level of upset about racial or sexual orientation change. It raises red flags to me. As long as the essential aspects of Wally are preserved, I don't give a fuck. The reason why I disliked Wallace was because he was not Wally in any way, and his personality was awful at that. If Wally gets portrayed black/mixed, this doesn't mean it won't be Wally, let's make that clear first.

    On the other hand, Wallace failed in every piece of media. They don't retire the character now only because of the fear of backlash. He's relegated to irrelevancy in TT. It's obvious "people that matter" see this situation. Very possible if they go in "multiverse route" about Wally, in which they both keep Iris black and Wally white.
    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    My take is that you could still have a mixed race or black Wally West but with all the personality and history of the ginger Wally. So even if they do go for a mixed race Wally in the future, it doesn't mean his personal history will be exactly the same as his comic book counterpart.

    The essential aspects of no characters are preserved. Neither CW or Movie Barry are really anything like Barry Allen in the comics. Neither is the Wally Wests we've gotten unless you, like, hyperfocus on the JLI era Wally for the DCAU. The name and look are the things that stick and you're hoping to get a new, interesting take on the character, not a faithful recreation.
    Last edited by Dred; 05-16-2021 at 04:59 AM.

  2. #812
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dred View Post
    They have a lot more similarities than their names. And those similarities are the ones that matter for adaptations.
    I think there's enough that can distinguish them.
    The essential aspects of no characters are preserved. Neither CW or Movie Barry are really anything like Barry Allen in the comics. Neither is the Wally Wests we've gotten unless you, like, hyperfocus on the JLI era Wally for the DCAU. The name and look are the things that stick and you're hoping to get a new, interesting take on the character, not a faithful recreation.
    CW Barry grew into it.

    YJ Wally was close but he just never got to really grow into modern comic Wally.

  3. #813
    Astonishing Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dred View Post
    Listing a slew of Batman adaptations is the opposite of encouraging.
    There is a lot more than Batman adaptations in my post.

    They have a lot more similarities than their names. And those similarities are the ones that matter for adaptations.
    What similarities? Besides the Iris connection, they both have entirely different personalities and histories.

    The essential aspects of no characters are preserved. Neither CW or Movie Barry are really anything like Barry Allen in the comics. Neither is the Wally Wests we've gotten unless you, like, hyperfocus on the JLI era Wally for the DCAU. The name and look are the things that stick and you're hoping to get a new, interesting take on the character, not a faithful recreation.
    Faithfullness depends on who they hire for the job. If it's a CW level writer they would just scrape off surface level elements and come up with their own ideas. If it's someone akin to Waid or McDuffie, you will end up with someone who takes into consideration the characters entire history and knows how to distill their best elements for adaptation.

  4. #814
    Incredible Member Primal Slayer's Avatar
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    I'm still salty that Keiynan Lonsdale wanted to dye his hair red to give that Wally feel and the showrunner refused it.

  5. #815
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    There is a lot more than Batman adaptations in my post.



    What similarities? Besides the Iris connection, they both have entirely different personalities and histories.



    Faithfullness depends on who they hire for the job. If it's a CW level writer they would just scrape off surface level elements and come up with their own ideas. If it's someone akin to Waid or McDuffie, you will end up with someone who takes into consideration the characters entire history and knows how to distill their best elements for adaptation.
    The only thing that matters for adaptations is the name, relation, and being Kid Flash. At that point no one's actually dedicated to recreating a character. No showrunner is going to hamstring their writers with comic faithfullness, nor even require it be a thing. They're unilaterally looking to make their own stuff, vaguely inspired by the comics. It's not just "CW level" writers or anything. Movie writers don't care for anything but the basics before adapting what they want. YJ Wally isn't really anything like Wally was as Kid Flash or an adult. I already mentioned DCAU Wally -- probably the most popular version of Wally but largely a comedic side character rather than the Wally West of the 90s they could've drawn from because no one was going to do a story about Wally's real big character points. They just made their own spin on it.

  6. #816
    Astonishing Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dred View Post
    The only thing that matters for adaptations is the name, relation, and being Kid Flash. At that point no one's actually dedicated to recreating a character. No showrunner is going to hamstring their writers with comic faithfullness, nor even require it be a thing. They're unilaterally looking to make their own stuff, vaguely inspired by the comics. It's not just "CW level" writers or anything. Movie writers don't care for anything but the basics before adapting what they want. YJ Wally isn't really anything like Wally was as Kid Flash or an adult. I already mentioned DCAU Wally -- probably the most popular version of Wally but largely a comedic side character rather than the Wally West of the 90s they could've drawn from because no one was going to do a story about Wally's real big character points. They just made their own spin on it.
    Agreed to disagree.

    Faithfullness depends entirely on who they get for the showrunner, whom said showrunner hires for their writing team and which source material they choose to draw from. There are no shortage of people knocking on DC/WB's door in order to land that dream job of writing for their favorite characters and that includes fans of Wally West.

    Neither of us knows exactly what direction future adaptions will take but I don't think the door has closed entirely on there being an adaptation of the classic Wally West.

    Now, do you have anything new to say or are we going to keep having the same argument for the next 5 pages?

  7. #817
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    I am not forcing you to rebut me. I'm going off, well, the entire history of external DC media vs what you (hell, both of us) would like to happen as far as I can tell.

    This whole thing started with someone positing the the idea that Wally's return to the lead role in comics could be making way for him to appear in further adaptations as the main Flash. To which I think anyone here would reasonably deduce is very, very, very unlikely to be the case. I just stand a little firmer and presume that it will never be the case and it's even more likely he won't appear (as we know him) at all because of how basic external media adaptations are.
    Last edited by Dred; 05-16-2021 at 02:28 PM.

  8. #818
    Astonishing Member John Venus's Avatar
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    The empirical evidence is not your side, friend. When you look at pop culture everything gets turned upside down and regurgitated eventually.

  9. #819
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Slayer View Post
    I'm still salty that Keiynan Lonsdale wanted to dye his hair red to give that Wally feel and the showrunner refused it.
    Yeah, they really didn't handle him as well as they could have.

  10. #820
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    The empirical evidence is not your side, friend. When you look at pop culture everything gets turned upside down and regurgitated eventually.
    Yeah, it gets regurgitated through the Barry lens.

  11. #821
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dred View Post
    Yeah, it gets regurgitated through the Barry lens.
    I don't see that lasting indefinitely.

  12. #822
    Astonishing Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dred View Post
    Yeah, it gets regurgitated through the Barry lens.
    You wish.

    The arc of the universe does not bend towards Barry Allen. :P

  13. #823
    Extraordinary Member sifighter's Avatar
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    Well that’s surely one hell of a last page reference in today’s issue, not what I was expecting but I’ll take it.

    I mean seriously who would have expected spoilers:
    Wally to inhabit the body of Thawne in what looks like an in-continuity Super Friends version of the Legion of Doom
    end of spoilers
    Last edited by sifighter; 05-18-2021 at 06:57 AM.
    "It's fun and it's cool, so that's all that matters. It's what comics are for, Duh."
    Words to live by.

  14. #824
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    You wish.

    The arc of the universe does not bend towards Barry Allen. :P
    I do not wish. Not even slightly. It's just what will happen. Just like it did on the show. Honestly I'm doubtful there will be any big Flash series coming in the future besides the show we've already got. We'll get one off movies and animated features which will star Barry and will strip things from Wally's stories to bolster them.

  15. #825
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    Goddamn it why does Barry vs Wally Drama have to infect this thread every so often. I like both of them, I want both of them to be in things, and yes adaptations of ether are gonna take stuff from the other because that's how adaptations tend to work. All of this drama has been reguritated like a million goddamn times, just why. What's the point.
    Last edited by Mojo; 05-18-2021 at 04:49 AM.

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